On sensory overload in non-erotic writing

[OpenSeas]

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[lovecraft68]

Hey guys. I don't post here much but I've been reading the threads lately. Here's a dilemma I've found that I want to put to you.

We all want scenes to be vivid. We hate bland abstractions. But what about scenes that are too vivid? Have you ever had that? It happens in some stories where the author goes overboard, describing tangents, focusing on too many details.

Is there a rule of thumb that experienced scenecrafters follow? A magic pill or an easy button would be ideal.

Sounds like you're talking about too much detail. There is an essay in the How To section entitled making a cup of tea (or something like that) that covers going overboard on describing acts and details.

Hope that helps a bit.

 

[sr71plt]

Nope, no magic pills. The great things about creative writing is that it is both creative and individual. If the author's and writer's tastes don't meld, they are both free to walk the other way. There are a whole lot of other stories to try out--and a big pile of them is right here on Literotica.

 

[OpenSeas]

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[i_would]

This essay I recall having read myself, should be in the how-to section, or maybe the writer's resources. Quite funny and illustrative, just like so many of the how-to's about writing there.

And for detail: I'd say "as much as needed".

Enough to set the scene, if you have a highly observant character they'll notice more, or they may notice obscure details that happen to be related to their job - e.g. some simple object on display in someone else's home that catches their eye, even though it's got nothing to do with the plot itself, it does build character.

And always try leave enough room for the reader's mind to fill in the blanks

 

[slyc_willie]

Hey guys. I don't post here much but I've been reading the threads lately. Here's a dilemma I've found that I want to put to you.

We all want scenes to be vivid. We hate bland abstractions. But what about scenes that are too vivid? Have you ever had that? It happens in some stories where the author goes overboard, describing tangents, focusing on too many details.

Is there a rule of thumb that experienced scenecrafters follow? A magic pill or an easy button would be ideal.

Depends on what you means by going "overboard." Some readers like a little verbosity in their reading. What you might consider too much someone else would say is just right.

That's a vague answer, of course, because, as the other posters pointed out, there's no easy fix to trimming down your prose if you feel it needs to be done. I sometimes feel that I'm getting a little too descriptive, but when i go back and read it, it sounds fine to me, or to my wife, who is my occasional beta reader. Sometimes, I'll even add more description. It all comes down to how you want to set the scene.

While it's a lovely and catchy phrase, "less is more" is not always true.

 

[sr71plt]

While it's a lovely and catchy phrase, "less is more" is not always true.

Would you suck into "more is less"?

 

[slyc_willie]

Would you suck into "more is less"?

Absolutely, in some cases. You know as well as I that there's no easy answer.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Cormac McCarthy, and Elmore Leonards westerns, feature the best descriptions.

 

[Noira]

I take the following approach when I'm having trouble hitting the right balance, though I must say I rarely have trouble with an overload as I'm heavily on the "Tolkien did it, now stop trying to be Tolkien and do it your own way." side of the fence.

Write it first, in the simplest terms, using the simple words needed to convey your point.

Step back. Read it. Frown.

Is it right?

If the answer to that is "no", add more in. Is it the right word? Does it convey your point in the best way possible? Tell me about your dialogue. Words, lingo, or vernacular? Which one is RIGHT? Have you got the essence of the scene, or is it missing a certain smell, feel, taste? Step back. Read it again.

Who's your narrator? Are they an undereducated migrant high off their rockers, or an educated lawyer in a cesspit of scandal leading to the false accusation of murder? There's a difference in what these two people will observe, narrate, say--find it, say it.

What's the setting? Saying "the city" might bring up New Jersey for him and Winnipeg for me and Shanghai for her. Sometimes less isn't more; sometimes you need the right words to bring the right setting to mind, so that someone who's been here knows exactly what you're talking about when your narrative speaks of the waft of humidity over a rust-colored river, spotted with swirling elm seeds as they rush towards the river's fork, and lets someone who hasn't been here see the image you want them to see...

Who's your audience? Do you want people who read Tolkien reading your works? Are you pitching to the types of people who grab Stephen King? John Grisham? Different genres call for different conventions. High fantasy will wallow in description all the more, as the genre is dependent on high concept, high delivery. Action novels are fast and dirty. A single well-placed word will have twelve times the impact of a well-crafted paragraph in that sort of writing. Better your vocabulary's sharp, your prose will hardly matter when the word you really needed was 'combusted' and you needed it a paragraph ago because by now the entire fucking building's on fire.

But secrets? There really is only one that I know of, and that's 'write it simple first', because it's easier to add than to take away. If it doesn't work, add. It hurts less to add than to cut.

Please note I come from a group of writers who will tell you to tighten your work, cut the dross, and carry your story on the back of the action rather than the back of a concept. A well placed sentence will do you better than a page. Not everyone will agree with me and not everyone will enjoy what I love to read.

Anyway, to answer the first question, I think it totally happens. While I think you should always put your story first, and the needs of the story first, some certainly popular works fit the mould of 'overload'. I'm currently plodding through The Dragonbone Chair by Tad Williams and good LORD is it ever slow. I have wallowed with the main character through his childhood and chores for years now, and I doubt those pies and frogs have any significance whatsoever. But! Consider! Writers like these are often prolific and older writers, who spearheaded the modern fantasy genre, such as Tolkien, and were able to sell their stories on a foundation of concept alone. We're past the age where dragons and elves alone make a titillating story. While I'd never suggest people don't read the big name stories, I'd suggest reading them and then not copying them. They've done it. Learn from what they did, and make your own path.

There is no right answer, though, so do what your story compels you.

 

[OpenSeas]

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[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I find it helpful to keep boxers in mind when I write, or combat medics. Each of them focuses on what matters and takes them closer to the outcome they want. The boxer wants a clear shot at the opponents head, and for that to happen he works to get the opponent to drop his guard. The combat medic wants to stop bleeding or increase blood pressure or control pain. Everything else is irrelevant and a distraction.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

I believe in KISS...Keep It Simple Stupid.

Just tell the story.

 

[SecondCircle]

Depends on what you means by going "overboard." Some readers like a little verbosity in their reading. What you might consider too much someone else would say is just right.

That's a vague answer, of course, because, as the other posters pointed out, there's no easy fix to trimming down your prose if you feel it needs to be done. I sometimes feel that I'm getting a little too descriptive, but when i go back and read it, it sounds fine to me, or to my wife, who is my occasional beta reader. Sometimes, I'll even add more description. It all comes down to how you want to set the scene.

While it's a lovely and catchy phrase, "less is more" is not always true.

Slyc has a point here. I'm very bad about piling too much shit in sometimes. Especially in scenes that I am trying to accomplish a particular mood or feel in.

I had an editor once who always tidied up my work nicely. And don't get me wrong, as an editor, she was as awesome as they come. She had the eyes of a literary hawk. She could cut down my word count and leave only the things that were really needed or pertinent to the story.

The problem was, when she did this, it changed parts of the story that were written a certain way for a certain subliminal reason. In other words, when the reader read them that way, it was supposed to evoke a certain feeling from them, unnoticed by the reader themselves.

She changed a opening to a story, cut it, tidied it, and made it fit a lot better. It had a great flow to it when she was done. The problem was that the flow was supposed to be slow and droning for a reason. It built a certain mood for the story, one of going about things in a mundane or mindless fashion like the characters were, just before shit broke loose in the story.

Of course, we met in the middle after we had a discussion about it, and turned out something great. Sometimes, neat, tidy, grammatical correctness or word count isn't all there is. There are connotations behind the wordings of a story, involving pacing and description for reasons that a reader doesn't even realize are necessary as they read them.

There's not just one kind of reader out there. Or one type of buyer. Sometimes, it's necessary to leave things to the imagination. But sometimes, giving someone a piece of yours works just as well.

 

[MSTarot]

I tend to use a lot of metaphors in my stories to get across details without having to write a lot more details.

In a story of mine I have two people having sex in the backseat of a hot car. He is sweating like crazy by the end of it, with it falling off him and onto her. I used a bit of dialog to convey that.

"Like getting fucked by a waterfall."

This was one comment I got from that, Anon of course.


[Good but too many similes and metaphors. "Like being fucked by a water ...fall." WTF does that even mean? "The old car cranks with a rumble that sounds just like laughter." You lost me on that one. "Sitting like a shadow in black and charcoal". Come on this is a sex story not a poem.]



Well he didn't get it but about 61 people have favored that story since March so I guess someone did.

Just tell your story the way you want to tell it. Some will love you for it and some will hate every word.

 

[OpenSeas]

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[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Most people have no idea what subliminal effects are or how to create them. People are really stoopid, and LIT readers are the worst of all. Real knuckle-walking mouth-breathers.

Notice what I did above?

Generally speaking, it takes 3 subliminal cues to get the response you want. If you wanna piss them off discount them 3 times. That is, let her see you ogling the servers ass 3 times.


Wanna break-up a quarrel with subliminal cues? Interrupt the quarrelers with questions requiring factual information. UH, EXCUSE ME GUYS, BUT DO EITHER OF YOU GOT THE TIME?

Wanna improve service at a restaurant? Set out a stack of one dollar bills on the table. If the server takes too long taking your order, remove one bill from the stack; if she shows some cleavage, add a bill to the stack. ETc.

 

[SecondCircle]

Can you give me some examples of subliminal effects you try to achieve?

I've always been curious. In my opinion they can be hit-and-miss.

It ain't a perfect craft. To me, it's sorta like the connotations that accompany certain words. Like the word "spider". To most people, when they hear the word spider, the word carries a deeper "mood" or meaning for them. They may be afraid of spiders, or just not like them in general. Others don't get that sense when they read the word spider. "Sunshine" is a word that carries a lot of positive underlying meaning with it. "Death" usually is seen as negative.

Now imagine this effect on a broader scope. It can be used to paint a mood across paragraphs, scenes, or even chapters or books. Its all in the wording you choose, sentence structure and pacing, and particular details you choose to elaborate upon.

Think about movies. They shoot every scene a certain way for a specific reason. An example I can think of recently was the prison in The Dark Knight Rises. (Sorry I watched it again last night.) It just seems like they picked a decent concept for some prison and threw Bruce Wayne in a hole in the ground that gave prisoners false hopes of climbing to freedom. But subliminally, this detail tied everything full circle by using symbolism. Bruce fell in a well in the first movie, and had his first encounter with the bats he grew to fear. The prison was symbolic of that well he fell in and the fear he had to overcome.

Same thing with the fight scene with Bruce and Bane. They shot that scene without music, with the intent of building tension, and it also allowed the audience to really hear who was exerting more effort in the fight (the older and weaker Bruce Wayne). The setting they fought in was really dark and oppressing to an audience's eyes. Gave you the feeling of danger or discomfort. That feeling of concern and despair built the necessary tension for that part of the film, but isn't necessarily something that is spelled out plainly.

This can be achieved in writing as well. I remember writing a detailed (too much?) scene which basically involved a woman hiding from ... we'll call it a monster. It was a long scene that trailed the game of cat and mouse in a very large house. There were a lot of details and unique sentence structures that were in tune with the scene. Like the few seconds where the "monster" is looking right beside her in a dark corner. I literally could have wrote that in one grammatically perfect sentence and told you what was happening.

I didn't. Those few seconds went on for several paragraphs, the same way those few seconds would have seemed to go on for minutes to the poor woman hiding. The sentences were short, explanatory, and almost "hushed" in a way, as though you were hiding in the dark with that woman.

Manyeyedhydra accomplishes this in his recent story traitor. He could have written the story with one sentence. But when we tell stories, it isn't just telling people what happened and being grammatically correct about it. There are underlying themes that aren't even written plainly in the story. Hydra did well at keeping a mood and personal feel of guilt of a traitor, using certain wordings and sentences and descriptions.

Crap. Rambling again. But just because something doesn't "seem relevant" at a first glance doesn't mean it needs to be cut every time. Sometimes, things have a deeper purpose than we realize, even if it's as simply as the way someone structured sentences in a paragraph.