Abusing the rating system

[ShawnSwift]

My story became live today and it's fairly apparent that someone is cache clearing and voting '1' on said chapter (numbers don't lie). I recently read in a post that "malicious" voting is discounted but I've also read that the site administrators seem to have their hands perpetually full. I would appreciate it if a more experienced member could shed some light on the issue.

Will the rating remain as-is after the string of abuse or will my story's actual rating be restored?

It's a non-human, werewolf-based story. There is a chapter before it which remains oddly untouched.

Link to the chapter in question: http://www.literotica.com/s/pack-swift-a-growing-pack-ch-02

Link to the previous chapter: http://www.literotica.com/s/pack-swift-a-growing-pack

I look forward to your responses.

 

[slyc_willie]

The rating system for Literotica is not perfect. It will give you headaches if you dwell on it too much. There are trolls who will vote down stories simply because the story competes with one of their beloved favorites, or because an author did not "write what they were supposed to write" for the kind of story. There are quite a few readers out there who look for certain conventions in any given category. Taking your stories as an example, if your werewolves aren't of the popular accepted variety, you will get bombed. There's no avoiding it.

Obsessing over your story's rating will only give you undue stress. Do not, by any means, take your scores as any indication of the quality (or lack thereof) of your writing. There are plenty of stories in the top lists which are atrociously written, but because they appeal to the fantasies of a large number of readers, and satisfy the base requirements of those fantasies, they remain where they are. At the same time, there are some true gems on this site that were written exceedingly well, but because the author did not follow the baseline of erotic convention, they languish in limbo with a score below the coveted 4.50 "Red H" benchmark.

As David Lee Roth once said, "don't sweat the small shit. And it's all small shit."

 

[cittran]

Hmm...

You may have gained a reader in me.


(I very much prefer longer stories over shorter ones -- it gives time for the characters to develop.)

I'm sorry to hear that someone seems to be screwing with your story, but I can't really do anything about it either.

On another note, seeing as how you mentioned that it will be fairly long, you could try posting it on Smashwords once you're done.

 

[ShawnSwift]

The rating system for Literotica is not perfect. It will give you headaches if you dwell on it too much. There are trolls who will vote down stories simply because the story competes with one of their beloved favorites, or because an author did not "write what they were supposed to write" for the kind of story. There are quite a few readers out there who look for certain conventions in any given category. Taking your stories as an example, if your werewolves aren't of the popular accepted variety, you will get bombed. There's no avoiding it.

Obsessing over your story's rating will only give you undue stress. Do not, by any means, take your scores as any indication of the quality (or lack thereof) of your writing. There are plenty of stories in the top lists which are atrociously written, but because they appeal to the fantasies of a large number of readers, and satisfy the base requirements of those fantasies, they remain where they are. At the same time, there are some true gems on this site that were written exceedingly well, but because the author did not follow the baseline of erotic convention, they languish in limbo with a score below the coveted 4.50 "Red H" benchmark.

As David Lee Roth once said, "don't sweat the small shit. And it's all small shit."

Quoted for truth. At the same time though, I would like to reach the largest audience possible. Higher ratings/top list increases exposure which will increase my fan-base and ultimately lead to more success when I self-publish.

Section 1 of my story enjoyed over 1000 views in the first few hours; section 2 however is sitting at just over 700. On the flip-side, I'm getting way more votes per capita; I think that's largely do to my troll problem though.

 

[ShawnSwift]

Hmm...

You may have gained a reader in me.


(I very much prefer longer stories over shorter ones -- it gives time for the characters to develop.)

I'm sorry to hear that someone seems to be screwing with your story, but I can't really do anything about it either.

On another note, seeing as how you mentioned that it will be fairly long, you could try posting it on Smashwords once you're done.

That's the plan friend. I'm using Literotica as a means to get my story beta-read. Once I've figured out what the masses want, I can aim for that as much as my creative muse and pride will allow.

First Smashwords, then other major e-book retailers and at the end of the road, maybe a printed version. I can dream...

 

[Darkniciad]

Something you're going to have to get used to with Non-Human and Sci-Fi&Fantasy:

The readership isn't all that high ( compared to most of the "real world" categories ) so it doesn't take many low votes to knock your score down. If your score is "down" now ( at 4.70 ) then even a 4 vote will reduce your score. It doesn't have to be 1s. Any time your score is above 4.0, any vote other than a 5 lowers your score.

Making the toplist ( if you consider your score "down" now, you probably did ) makes you a target in several ways.

There are rabid fanbases who have a bad habit of boosting favorites while knocking down anyone else who pops into the toplists. It's not a bad idea to nip that in the bud with your own fanbase early, and regularly. Once informed that you don't want that sort of "help", enough of them will honor your wishes to be noticeable.

Making a toplist exposes you to more readers, who may legitimately not like your story, or may not like it as much as your regular readers. Your score may drop initially, but it's never a bad thing to have the added exposure in the long run. At least a few of those new eyes will become regulars, and that will eventually bring all your scores up, because you'll have more regulars, who tend to vote higher.

There are people who have nothing better to do than down-vote everything on the toplists just to be dicks. Nothing you can do about that but hope that the sweeps get them.

The most common time for sweeps to hit is when a contest sweep is going on. You may see some votes vanish when the Earth Day contest sweeps begin ( in a couple of weeks ) Odds are you'll see a noticeable drop when ( at some time in the far-flung future ) the monthly awards for the month you published the story are posted. Those sweeps cut deep, and do tend to eliminate a lot of low votes, though you'll lose a lot of 5s as well. If you have too many boosters in your fanbase or too many fans down-voting other stories, you'll lose more 5s. That's why you want to put a stop to it early, and remind your fans regularly.

Just some things off the top of my head. You have to look at your numbers over the long term, not worry much over the day-to-day fluxuations. If you do, you'll drive yourself crazy.

 

[ShawnSwift]

Something you're going to have to get used to with Non-Human and Sci-Fi&Fantasy:

The readership isn't all that high ( compared to most of the "real world" categories ) so it doesn't take many low votes to knock your score down. If your score is "down" now ( at 4.70 ) then even a 4 vote will reduce your score. It doesn't have to be 1s. Any time your score is above 4.0, any vote other than a 5 lowers your score.

Ironically, the first chapter is UP .01. Chapter two drew about 300 new readers for chapter one. Chapter two on the other hand was rocking 4.8 after 20 votes and then 4.3 after 25. Everytime it starts to recover, someone comes along and down votes it exactly 5 times, 1 star each time.

Making the toplist ( if you consider your score "down" now, you probably did ) makes you a target in several ways.

I didn't. I released chapter one on Dec. 26th (Yeah, I realize my mistake now), so once it got to 4.7, that's pretty much where it stayed. I think the cut-off for non-human is 4.8~. Your point stands though.

There are rabid fanbases who have a bad habit of boosting favorites while knocking down anyone else who pops into the toplists.

Quoted for truth. After you get to a certain point in any series, only the die-hards remain and their comments almost always read the same way.

It's not a bad idea to nip that in the bud with your own fanbase early, and regularly. Once informed that you don't want that sort of "help", enough of them will honor your wishes to be noticeable.

I'm in the habit of letting my readers know that I want a "fair" and "honest" assessment of what I've written. I don't want to get boosted because it would skew the ratings. Similarly, I don't want to be down-voted either.

Making a toplist exposes you to more readers, who may legitimately not like your story, or may not like it as much as your regular readers. Your score may drop initially, but it's never a bad thing to have the added exposure in the long run. At least a few of those new eyes will become regulars, and that will eventually bring all your scores up, because you'll have more regulars, who tend to vote higher.

This is true. I have no problems with people who don't like my writing for their own reasons. Twilight, 50 shades of gray and Harry Potter all have detractors but they're a very vocal and rather small minority (I honestly haven't read any of them).

Most book sales happen because of word-of-mouth. "Omg, I just read the best book!" "Really? Tell me more..." Social networking is powerful and becoming more prevalent by the day. If one reader here leads to two book sales down the road, that's powerful.

The most common time for sweeps to hit is when a contest sweep is going on. You may see some votes vanish when the Earth Day contest sweeps begin ( in a couple of weeks ) Odds are you'll see a noticeable drop when ( at some time in the far-flung future ) the monthly awards for the month you published the story are posted. Those sweeps cut deep, and do tend to eliminate a lot of low votes, though you'll lose a lot of 5s as well. If you have too many boosters in your fanbase or too many fans down-voting other stories, you'll lose more 5s. That's why you want to put a stop to it early, and remind your fans regularly.

Noted. Most views happen within the first few days of the story being released though. After it drops off of the "new" lists, all you can really hope for is comments drawing attention and the top lists. Unfortunately I can't do anything about the down-voting happening right now but this information will affect future posts. Thank you.

 

[geronimo_appleby]

OK, you've got 2 stories up, one as I see is at 4.7, the other isn't showing a score yet.

The possible reasons for your second in the series being 'manipulated' are all given above, but what I'd caution against is making it known that you're bothered. There are trolls out there who will pick up on that and quite simply slam your stuff because they know it bugs you. Someone has said not to worry too much about the scores and the red 'H' - that's pretty sound and will make your lit time so much more enjoyable.

Write more stuff and get it out there. take on board the constructive criticism and disregard the, 'uh, you suck' kind of comments that can sometimes appear.

Oh, and if you're sensitive to votes and scores and comments, don't do anything in Loving Wives

Good luck, and have a good time here.

 

[lovecraft68]

Something I did not see dark cover(unless I missed it, its early) is that 2nd Chapters and all subsequent ones will get lower view vote totals than the first (mostly)

The reason is many people who checked out #1 may not have likes it(now that does not mean they have to one bomb you many people don't vote at all)

So when chapter two comes out those people, because they are not trolls have the courtesy to simply not read and harass your story. As your chapter numbers get higher the views/votes dwindle until you're down to your core audience. Especially if you go into higher numbers people will not click on and start at #9(but you may see more favs on #1 if people want to go back and start fresh)

Now the good thing about that is generally your score will go up because the people reading at that point are mostly your fan base and will give you good marks.

I have a 40+ chapter series and most of the chapters after 20 are all high 4.7's with a few 4.8's but also low vote totals.

The odd thing here is chapter two getting a lower score than one it is usually the other way around.

Of course yes there are "trolls" and snipers etc... but you generally have to do somthing to get them going to attack a second chapter.

Now I am going to put this out there not to be an ass, but to be realistic. Is it simply possible chapter 2 is not as good as 1?

I ask because quite honestly although as I said I know there are trolls, I sometimes roll my eyes at the fact many authors cannot seem to come to terms with the fact their story may not be that good and people did not like it.

Did Chapter 2 take the story in a new direction? Introduce an unlikable character or have something bad happen to the main character? I had a low voted chapter when I had one character betray the other. People were still reading and following, but they were emotionally invested and it pissed them off.

Just some thoughts, but ultimately as others said, don't obsess about it. You won't enjoy writing here if you focus too much on the score.

 

[ShawnSwift]

Now I am going to put this out there not to be an ass, but to be realistic. Is it simply possible chapter 2 is not as good as 1?

The irony is chapter 1 has zero sex (on literotica), more technical errors, more creative writing errors, etc.. At first I was like: Okay, I just went from 4.75 to 4.3 in a blink of an eye; why? Then it hit me: cache clearing. After doing the math, I confirmed it: My story got 1-bombed 15 times total. It was 3 'passes,' 5 times each pass. It should be rated 4.64

I ask because quite honestly although as I said I know there are trolls, I sometimes roll my eyes at the fact many authors cannot seem to come to terms with the fact their story may not be that good and people did not like it.

Considered this too. I actually brought it up in my comments section. I'm hoping to drive reader comments up to gain visibility in the comments portal. I'm not doing anything like '^' or 'bump,' I'm just interacting with the commenters. Hopefully I can get some constructive criticism going and find out what if anything is wrong with chapter 2.

Did Chapter 2 take the story in a new direction? Introduce an unlikable character or have something bad happen to the main character? I had a low voted chapter when I had one character betray the other. People were still reading and following, but they were emotionally invested and it pissed them off.

To call it a "new direction" would be a stretch. The big 'change' was sex. Everyone who beta-read for me singularly agreed that the sex wasn't exactly a weak-spot. In fact, most of them told me it was hot and that their partners/palms benefited in a big way. I haven't gotten any public feedback saying it was hot or not though - hmmm...

 

[ShawnSwift]

The possible reasons for your second in the series being 'manipulated' are all given above, but what I'd caution against is making it known that you're bothered. There are trolls out there who will pick up on that and quite simply slam your stuff because they know it bugs you. Someone has said not to worry too much about the scores and the red 'H' - that's pretty sound and will make your lit time so much more enjoyable.

I'm starting to figure that out. Got my first negative comment today but it honestly doesn't bother me (helps that like 4 people responded to the contrary). Still though, I'd like to think that several months worth of time and effort would amount to more than it has. I was frustrated and thoughts like: "what do you have to gain by slamming me?" went through my mind but I don't care any more.

At this point the only way the troll could get under my skin is a logical explanation of where I went wrong which is sort of what I'm going for anyway. I hope my experiences here have shed some light on what's wrong and what's right with the community.

Why don't you have to log-in to comment/vote and why aren't there mac address readers to block the possibility of alts?

My .02

 

[TNP_]

If you are convinced that your story is receiving fraudulent votes then there is something you can do about it. To report possible fraudulent voting use the "Report Story" button at the bottom of the page of the story in question, select "Other" as the category and type "Please check the voting on this story." in the details field. I have done this on one or two occasions and Laurel has responded quickly to the problem. Fair warning, it may not be only 1's that are removed. If someone has abused the system and voted more than once on your story and given you 5's each time those will disappear also. That's happened to me when Laurel swept my story. So it goes. Fair is fair after all.

 

[BonnevilleFlats]

I didn't know people cleared their cache and 1 bombed stories here. Figured people would be too busy for that sort of thing. I mean, how much is at stake here, really? An NEA grant? A Guggenheim? A Stegner? Come on, this is a free site where people post dirty stories anonymously. I don't let my friends know I write this stuff.

 

[JagFarlane]

I didn't know people cleared their cache and 1 bombed stories here. Figured people would be too busy for that sort of thing. I mean, how much is at stake here, really? An NEA grant? A Guggenheim? A Stegner? Come on, this is a free site where people post dirty stories anonymously. I don't let my friends know I write this stuff.

Heh for some people taking the time to send the message they really don't like your story, or they don't like you, is well worth it. -shrugs- It happens, sometimes they're right about the story or writing skill and sometimes they're just doing it to get a rise out of the author.

 

[BonnevilleFlats]

Heh for some people taking the time to send the message they really don't like your story, or they don't like you, is well worth it. -shrugs- It happens, sometimes they're right about the story or writing skill and sometimes they're just doing it to get a rise out of the author.

If somebody doesn't like a story they can post their reasons in the comments section. If somebody doesn't like me they either send me a private message or start a flame war on the discussion board. If somebody wants to get a rise out of me I suggest they contact my ex wife. She knows how to do that better than anyone. The only thing a low score will do is make me do a closer editing job before I post the next one or disable the scoring feature entirely for my stories.

I am not writing these stories for scores. I am writing them because 1) I like erotic fiction enough to dabble in it to improve my writing over all, 2) publishers are reluctant to put out any story containing incest, erotic or not, so lit is my only option for some of my stories 3) more people will read a story I post on this site than a short story I publish in any university press. I had 50,000 plus hits on my last story. A conservative estimate would be that 10 thousand people actually read it. The only way I get that many readers out in the real world is if one of my stories makes it into Best American Short Stories.

Honestly, I don't see what any reader or writer has to gain by manipulating scores here. The best writers here (who aren't already doing so) will be able to sell their stories online. The rest? Probably not. It has nothing to do with the scores. It has to do with whether or not an online publisher thinks your stories are good enough that they can sell them. They decide that after reading the first two pages of a story, not because of a score here.

Stories stand on their own merit. A 4.5 doesn't mean a story is any better than it would be if it got a 4.3. A writer who got a 3.75 on a story that would have gotten a 4.3 isn't any less of a writer because somebody took ten minutes to clear their cache and give him fifteen "1's".

I don't select stories to read based on scores. I click a story that sounds interesting and decide within the first five paragraphs if it is worth continuing. The only thing this bit of information has done is to encourage me to give more stories with lower scores a chance to impress me with their first few paragraphs.

 

[MKvDeepSea]

Well said

Well said BonnevilleFlats.

 

[sdineen]

hi

Here here you are a great person

 

[ShawnSwift]

If you are convinced that your story is receiving fraudulent votes then there is something you can do about it. To report possible fraudulent voting use the "Report Story" button at the bottom of the page of the story in question, select "Other" as the category and type "Please check the voting on this story." in the details field. I have done this on one or two occasions and Laurel has responded quickly to the problem. Fair warning, it may not be only 1's that are removed. If someone has abused the system and voted more than once on your story and given you 5's each time those will disappear also. That's happened to me when Laurel swept my story. So it goes. Fair is fair after all.

This is really what I was looking for, thank you.

 

[lovecraft68]

If you are convinced that your story is receiving fraudulent votes then there is something you can do about it. To report possible fraudulent voting use the "Report Story" button at the bottom of the page of the story in question, select "Other" as the category and type "Please check the voting on this story." in the details field. I have done this on one or two occasions and Laurel has responded quickly to the problem. Fair warning, it may not be only 1's that are removed. If someone has abused the system and voted more than once on your story and given you 5's each time those will disappear also. That's happened to me when Laurel swept my story. So it goes. Fair is fair after all.

I wasn't aware you could do that. I wonder can you only do it on your own?

tell you what there is an author I would love to do that to because I have a damn good idea he seriously pads his stats and comments anon on his own stories multiple times(and no it is not scouries for anyone reading this)

 

[geronimo_appleby]

I'm starting to figure that out. Got my first negative comment today but it honestly doesn't bother me (helps that like 4 people responded to the contrary). Still though, I'd like to think that several months worth of time and effort would amount to more than it has. I was frustrated and thoughts like: "what do you have to gain by slamming me?" went through my mind but I don't care any more.

At this point the only way the troll could get under my skin is a logical explanation of where I went wrong which is sort of what I'm going for anyway. I hope my experiences here have shed some light on what's wrong and what's right with the community.

Why don't you have to log-in to comment/vote and why aren't there mac address readers to block the possibility of alts?

My .02

I have no idea, but perhaps being able to get into Lit without registering gives more exposure to the site, which, I assume, generates more revenue for the site owners?

As for alts, if there was some kind of alt filter in place I suspect the General Board would implode - which might be funny to watch.

 

[sr71plt]

tell you what there is an author I would love to do that to because I have a damn good idea he seriously pads his stats and comments anon on his own stories multiple times(and no it is not scouries for anyone reading this)

"I don;t spend time checking on what other people are doing, I just worry about my own shit."
--Lovecraft68

 

[lovecraft68]

"I don;t spend time checking on what other people are doing, I just worry about my own shit."
--Lovecraft68

Welcome back Pilot. For the record? There was not one argument or bit of nastiness here while you were gone. JUst saying.

As for minding my business. Considering said author has taken credit for my ideas twice on their blog they are now my business,

Now run along and work on another "relaunch"

 

[ShawnSwift]

I have no idea, but perhaps being able to get into Lit without registering gives more exposure to the site, which, I assume, generates more revenue for the site owners?

Revenue is a fair point. Based on everything I've read and seen though, I doubt that they make more than break-even. Some of those advertisements are a couple of years old while a few of them are even older.

As for alts, if there was some kind of alt filter in place I suspect the General Board would implode - which might be funny to watch.

I spent some time roving the general board and came to the conclusion that everyone on there is desperate for attention. In addition to that, a vast majority of the comments and responses are unintelligible which makes actual conversation impossible. I'm not sure if it's all inside jokes or english as a 7th language but it's almost as bad as 4chan.

I'm also starting to wonder if scouries choose his name because it's close to the word "scourge."

 

[Bramblethorn]

Why don't you have to log-in to comment/vote and why aren't there mac address readers to block the possibility of alts?

On the former: many people have very good reasons for not wanting to register on a porn site. While some people do abuse anonymity, I suspect it's also a big part of Lit's success.

On the latter: I suspect something like that is used during sweeps, in addition to removing obvious outlier votes, but I don't think Laurel/Manu have revealed exactly what they do.

 

[geronimo_appleby]

Revenue is a fair point. Based on everything I've read and seen though, I doubt that they make more than break-even. Some of those advertisements are a couple of years old while a few of them are even older.

Hmm. I wonder just how the site pays, then? The prizes for the competitions are fairly generous; I can't imagine Laurel and Manu would just give money away. Interesting.

I spent some time roving the general board and came to the conclusion that everyone on there is desperate for attention. In addition to that, a vast majority of the comments and responses are unintelligible which makes actual conversation impossible. I'm not sure if it's all inside jokes or english as a 7th language but it's almost as bad as 4chan.

I'm also starting to wonder if scouries choose his name because it's close to the word "scourge."

Ah, the GB can be hideous if one blunders in unknowing. Some of the posters in there are pretty decent, the trick is to figure out who's who.

I dunno, Scouries is entertaining, all part of the dynamic.