Help deciding on a cover.

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

LOVEY?

If you had any brains you'd go fishing when the gals are making the wedding plans; and they really only need you for emergency cash contributions. Like, the day before the wedding my daughters gown came apart at the seams, 200 miles from the seamstress. Old dad handed over the Mastercard for an emergency gown, and butted out.

 

[NaokoSmith]

I will like the page for you!

You did catch my review of Black Friday on Smash, didn't you. I'll go and check if I reviewed it on Amazon as well.



PS I loved those photos of your tattoos, I suppose you couldn't post a few more, could you, for me and Pilot? Not the special one you did for your wife, of course .

In fact I don't know why you don't have photos of your tattoos on your books.

 

[Dyslexicea]

The flames look like a child stuck them on there.

Exactly!

 

[Safe_Bet]

Honestly, I don't like either one. They both look cheesy. I like your writing a whole lot, but neither cover would persuade me to buy your book. An abstract cover would be better. Just saying.

Actually, I kinda agree with ^^THIS ^^. (except for the "like your writing..." )

I honestly wouldn't buy either one of them, based on the cover (and I read a LOT of that genre).

I seriously dig the Goth intent, but there is just SO much black on that cover that it smothers everything else. There is nothing that catches my eye at all.

(and, no. I don't have any better suggestions. I just know what I like or don't like and these both fall into the latter category and would cause me to pass right over the book.)

P.S. You could always add "sparkles" like Stephenie Meyers did!

 

[lovecraft68]

Actually, I kinda agree with ^^THIS ^^. (except for the "like your writing..." )

I honestly wouldn't buy either one of them, based on the cover (and I read a LOT of that genre).

I seriously dig the Goth intent, but there is just SO much black on that cover that it smothers everything else. There is nothing that catches my eye at all.

(and, no. I don't have any better suggestions. I just know what I like or don't like and these both fall into the latter category and would cause me to pass right over the book.)

P.S. You could always add "sparkles" like Stephenie Meyers did!

Fair enough and as to your one suggestion?

The only thing of mine that sparkles is my personality

 

[lovecraft68]

Okay so taking a few people's suggestions here is what I did.

I cropped a lot of the black from the bottom and top then re-sized it so it doesn't look so much like a black "blob"

I went with a brighter text.

Then although only one person commented on the font it did make me realize it was a little flowery for the story line and went with something a bit "horror"

I also, even though a few said they liked them, ditched the flames

This is the result

 

[NaokoSmith]

Okay so taking a few people's suggestions here is what I did.

I cropped a lot of the black from the bottom and top then re-sized it so it doesn't look so much like a black "blob"

I went with a brighter text.

Then although only one person commented on the font it did make me realize it was a little flowery for the story line and went with something a bit "horror"

I also, even though a few said they liked them, ditched the flames

This is the result

When reduced to thumbnail size, it's still difficult to see what this is so it doesn't necessarily pull in the reader, regardless of whether it's a good cover in itself. Maybe a simpler picture? Or a pale background with the symbol in greyish and then the black raven-woman over it?

 

[Safe_Bet]

When reduced to thumbnail size, it's still difficult to see what this is so it doesn't necessarily pull in the reader, regardless of whether it's a good cover in itself. Maybe a simpler picture? Or a pale background with the symbol in greyish and then the black raven-woman over it?

What ^^ she ^^ said!


Also I HATE that font. I can't even tell what the title is any longer.

 

[PennLady]

Yes, the font is tough to read at this size and would be worse if smaller.

This link is for Amazon's top 100 Mystery books for Kindle. Check them out -- there are a lot that are dark and gray, but the lettering is a) big, b) in a non-frilly font and c) in a lighter contrasting color.

Check out #10 free -- black on red, impossible to read the title/author on the thumbnail. Much the same with #12 free -- the black on yellow is okay, but the title is in such a scripty font it's illegible at that size.

 

[lovecraft68]

Yes, the font is tough to read at this size and would be worse if smaller.

This link is for Amazon's top 100 Mystery books for Kindle. Check them out -- there are a lot that are dark and gray, but the lettering is a) big, b) in a non-frilly font and c) in a lighter contrasting color.

Check out #10 free -- black on red, impossible to read the title/author on the thumbnail. Much the same with #12 free -- the black on yellow is okay, but the title is in such a scripty font it's illegible at that size.

I see what you're saying.

But, and I am speaking for me and assume there are others like me, the title(including subtitle) is directly under the book. It does not bother me to not be able to catch a sub title. Title yes, but the rest not necessary, but again that is how I think when I look around.

Another point, and I am not trying to be an ass. Is that #10 is well

#10 even though its free that is pretty impressive, so although I agree with all that is being said it gives pause for thought.

 

[PennLady]

I see what you're saying.

But, and I am speaking for me and assume there are others like me, the title(including subtitle) is directly under the book. It does not bother me to not be able to catch a sub title. Title yes, but the rest not necessary, but again that is how I think when I look around.

Another point, and I am not trying to be an ass. Is that #10 is well

#10 even though its free that is pretty impressive, so although I agree with all that is being said it gives pause for thought.

Yes, the subtitle isn't so important, I don't think. However, don't assume that everyone thinks the way you do when it comes to things like this. I don't look much at covers, but plenty of people do, both online and IRL.

Yeah, #10 is #10 despite a tough cover, but the cover isn't the only thing going into this. You don't know what kind of backing or networking that guy has. But you don't have that backing (nor do I) so why not give yourself every advantage you can.

 

[Neonurotic]

Okay so taking a few people's suggestions here is what I did.

I cropped a lot of the black from the bottom and top then re-sized it so it doesn't look so much like a black "blob"

I went with a brighter text.

Then although only one person commented on the font it did make me realize it was a little flowery for the story line and went with something a bit "horror"

I also, even though a few said they liked them, ditched the flames

This is the result

Resizing the image so that it is smaller (100x142) looks better now that you've edited some of the black. This opened the lighter portion in the center so contrast is also better. Doing this draws the eye to text. The color on the text is right, but the font face looks like chicken scratch. I've done several illustrated poetry pieces with text in the image and the wrong font and color will muddy the image. Thicker, cleaner fonts I find show up best.

 

[lovecraft68]

Resizing the image so that it is smaller (100x142) looks better now that you've edited some of the black. This opened the lighter portion in the center so contrast is also better. Doing this draws the eye to text. The color on the text is right, but the font face looks like chicken scratch. I've done several illustrated poetry pieces with text in the image and the wrong font and color will muddy the image. Thicker, cleaner fonts I find show up best.

Thanks, went back to a bolder font "Onyx" I believe its called pretty plain, but "thick"

 

[damppanties]

No one's said this yet so I might be the only one, but in the thumbnail version, the woman is kind of invisible. What I see are pale ovals for her face and hands -- not enough to make out that it's a human being. Try making the woman a little larger and see how that works?

I like the new cover a lot. Didn't like the flames in the first place. Agree that that font needs to be more readable.

 

[Dyslexicea]

Here goes, the whole cover just sucks.

It's not artistic, your winged creature is awful, absolutely no detail. It could be an man with long hair, even if anyone could really make out the hair. Where's the swell of her breasts, the flare of her hips. The wings are out of proportion, again absolutely no detail. A fifth grader with any artistic ability could make your winged creature out of black construction paper, a scissors and a small amount of paint.

The contrast between you moonlit clouds and your creature is just awful. Black on dark silver is never a good contrast. The hanging nooses, what is the point? They add nothing! Why fade the cover to BLACK?

The font makes no difference it just has to be readable. If the sub title means nothing it's shouldn't be on the cover, if it does it should be readable.

1)Here black, cream, shading = detail.
http://forum.literotica.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1173169&stc=1&d=1362581398

2)Here cream, grays, shading = detail.
http://forum.literotica.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1173170&stc=1&d=1362581398

3)Here color, background, foreground = focus. The flowers pop, have detail, they draw your eye.
http://forum.literotica.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1173171&stc=1&d=1362581398

4)Here color, background, my fairy = focus and detail.
http://forum.literotica.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1173172&stc=1&d=1362581398

Just my opinion. If I sound critical, I am. Nothing about your cover would give me a desire to read your book. Fantasy covers are for the most part art, your cover is not art.

I know I sound like a really mean bitch, maybe I am, but I really think your cover needs a lot of work.

 

[sr71plt]

The flowers did pop out and looked good, but all of the examples seemed irrelevant to what LC should be trying to do with his cover (or any book cover, with the exception of getting the pop of the flowers if you can). The written assessment was right on, though, I think. All sorts of things trying to go on with the cover, none of which was very good/professional looking or "said" anything other than "lots of mess." It doesn't leave me with any idea of what the genre of the book is other than maybe sales ladies who can fly but have to worry about not getting their heads in a noose while they're doing it. So, maybe a "how to" book on being a woman successfully in the workplace?--a workplace that's very dark and forboding--and where it's about to rain.

Unfortunately, the design type doesn't say anything clearly, either. And it really should or not be there. D's comment that a subtitle shouldn't be there at all if it can't be read is spot on. And it still looks like it reduces to a black blob in thumbnail. "They can read the title above it" doesn't cut it. If they aren't attracted to the cover and if the cover doesn't tell them it's a genre they like to read (there are individual cover "rules" for the individual genres. No I don't know what they are for the genre you are writing in; I don't read or help publish in any genre you seem to be writing in. Readers/buyers don't usually know what the signaling is either; they just react to as designed), they're not going to look at anything else related to it. Pick out the key connection you are trying to make with the book and simplify and clarify what you have on the cover.

 

[lovecraft68]

The flowers did pop out and looked good, but all of the examples seemed irrelevant to what LC should be trying to do with his cover (or any book cover, with the exception of getting the pop of the flowers if you can). The written assessment was right on, though, I think. All sorts of things trying to go on with the cover, none of which was very good/professional looking or "said" anything other than "lots of mess." It doesn't leave me with any idea of what the genre of the book is other than maybe sales ladies who can fly but have to worry about not getting their heads in a noose while they're doing it. So, maybe a "how to" book on being a woman successfully in the workplace?--a workplace that's very dark and forboding--and where it's about to rain.

Unfortunately, the design type doesn't say anything clearly, either. And it really should or not be there. D's comment that a subtitle shouldn't be there at all if it can't be read is spot on. And it still looks like it reduces to a black blob in thumbnail. "They can read the title above it" doesn't cut it. If they aren't attracted to the cover and if the cover doesn't tell them it's a genre they like to read (there are individual cover "rules" for the individual genres. No I don't know what they are for the genre you are writing in; I don't read or help publish in any genre you seem to be writing in. Readers/buyers don't usually know what the signaling is either; they just react to as designed), they're not going to look at anything else related to it. Pick out the key connection you are trying to make with the book and simplify and clarify what you have on the cover.

I think through all this what you're saying is the cover is too "busy" too many things coming at you.

Each item on the cover factors into the story, but of course one has to read the story in order to realize that.

A couple of people (Safe bet and I forget who else") used the term gothic. That is the look I am going for this. This falls under erotic horror, but leans more towards horror.

It will place under both erotica and horror on amazon, and I suppose I could just go with a "witch" wearing next to nothing and grab the "sex" audience, but wanted something different.

I have taken everyone's opinion here to heart and am going to have someone do some work on it for me.

The one thing I come back to on the basic design of the cover is I have been a horror fan my entire life and when I saw the original image it grabbed me. I am assuming it can do that for others of similar taste as well.

Horror fans have a little more give and take I think than some other genres. Basic porn, show them a young girl in a school girl outfit and they don;t even care if she is in the story, they will check it out.

For GM it is the ever redundant beefcake with the six pack abs wearing an array of uniforms. Personally those covers make me roll my eyes, but of course I am not the target audience and its no different from the scantilly clad stripper types on the "straight" erotica covers.

All in all this was a first attempt for something different as I try to teach myself some basic photoshop, but it obviously needs a lot more work and thought behind it.

 

[Safe_Bet]

I think through all this what you're saying is the cover is too "busy" too many things coming at you.

Each item on the cover factors into the story, but of course one has to read the story in order to realize that.

A couple of people (Safe bet and I forget who else") used the term gothic. That is the look I am going for this. This falls under erotic horror, but leans more towards horror.

It will place under both erotica and horror on amazon, and I suppose I could just go with a "witch" wearing next to nothing and grab the "sex" audience, but wanted something different.

I have taken everyone's opinion here to heart and am going to have someone do some work on it for me.

The one thing I come back to on the basic design of the cover is I have been a horror fan my entire life and when I saw the original image it grabbed me. I am assuming it can do that for others of similar taste as well.

Horror fans have a little more give and take I think than some other genres. Basic porn, show them a young girl in a school girl outfit and they don;t even care if she is in the story, they will check it out.

For GM it is the ever redundant beefcake with the six pack abs wearing an array of uniforms. Personally those covers make me roll my eyes, but of course I am not the target audience and its no different from the scantilly clad stripper types on the "straight" erotica covers.

All in all this was a first attempt for something different as I try to teach myself some basic photoshop, but it obviously needs a lot more work and thought behind it.

I actually like the image too.

Have you considered blowing away the black background completely and just fading to gray (with black text)???

You also might want to push up the contract on the image a bit so that you can differentiate between the wings and the arms ('specially when it's smaller), but keep the clock background.

 

[PennLady]

All in all this was a first attempt for something different as I try to teach myself some basic photoshop, but it obviously needs a lot more work and thought behind it.

Isn't that always the way?

Yes, I do think you had too much going on in the cover, and although all those things may factor in, you don't need to put them all on the cover. If it was a print book, perhaps, but e-books are a different animal. Again, I'd say, look at the covers of the top Amazon Kindle books -- here's the current top 100. Most of them are pretty straightforward, not a ton of different colors or images, b/c you only have so much room to work.

How about just one major image, like a circle, or some circular object like the noose?

 

[lovecraft68]

I actually like the image too.

Have you considered blowing away the black background completely and just fading to gray (with black text)???

You also might want to push up the contract on the image a bit so that you can differentiate between the wings and the arms ('specially when it's smaller), but keep the clock background.

That's what I am having someone look into for me. Going grey and doing something besides the "glow" effect to make the arms stand out.

Someone here made a remark about her being able to fly and Pilot just said it as well.

The woman does not have wings. She is a witch and she has a crow familiar and the symbol of her coven is a crow so that's why I wanted the wings.

If anyone is wondering the nooses factor in because in the coven they have a tradition where for every life they take they tattoo a nooses somewhere on their body.

But thank you for agreeing the image is at least likable(you mentioned you read a lot of horror.) In general I like the "feel" of this image.

Anyway back to some other persons drawing board for now.

 

[lovecraft68]

Isn't that always the way?

Yes, I do think you had too much going on in the cover, and although all those things may factor in, you don't need to put them all on the cover. If it was a print book, perhaps, but e-books are a different animal. Again, I'd say, look at the covers of the top Amazon Kindle books -- here's the current top 100. Most of them are pretty straightforward, not a ton of different colors or images, b/c you only have so much room to work.

How about just one major image, like a circle, or some circular object like the noose?

I think you hit it in this post.

I so love print books. Even now the only e-books I have ever bought are by people here to help support them. Other wise I buy print editions because I lobve the feel and the covers.

I think whenever I see an image I see it as a print cover and I think this would be a great image in a 6x9" paperback. But not 600x900 Jpeg.

 

[PennLady]

I think you hit it in this post.

I so love print books. Even now the only e-books I have ever bought are by people here to help support them. Other wise I buy print editions because I lobve the feel and the covers.

I think whenever I see an image I see it as a print cover and I think this would be a great image in a 6x9" paperback. But not 600x900 Jpeg.

I'm sure there are accepted guidelines on print covers as well. You still don't want to put a million things on the cover, I wouldn't think -- unless that's your point for whatever reason -- because then it's junked up.

So once again I went to Amazon to look at their best selling print books, specifically in mystery and sci-fi/fantasy since those seemed like the genres that might be closest to yours. And once again I saw crisp, clear covers (for the most part) that are not junked up with every little thing that's a point in the book.

Looks like a case of less is more.

 

[Dyslexicea]

The flowers did pop out and looked good, but all of the examples seemed irrelevant to what LC should be trying to do with his cover (or any book cover, with the exception of getting the pop of the flowers if you can).

None of the examples I used were meant for his cover. I used those to show how shading, light to dark, dark to light is used to add the illusion of depth to a two dimensional space, paper, canvas, computer screen. His creature lacks depth and detail.

I'm also a showoff so just shoot me!

Lovecraft, I don't hate your gothic creature, it just lack detail. If I hadn't read that it was a woman I would have perceived her as a male. The wings to me are out of proportion but they too lack detail. Don't take my criticism wrong I do like your overall concept.

http://forum.literotica.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1173432&stc=1&d=1362756593

No matter how small you make this you still know it's a woman and there is still, depth and detail.

 

[sr71plt]

Back to the "this wasn't book promotion" supposition. Just noticed that the book launched at Amazon already the day after you posted this thread (and would have had to have been submitted to Amazon before you posted this thread). So you were asking about a cover that you'd already submitted to Amazon.

For what it's worth, incidentally, I think the color contrasts look OK in the size Amazon ran it. The title can be read. I have to have known who the author was to read the author's name, and the subtitle is unreadable. The figure of the woman is such a solid blob that she no longer looks like an insurance saleslady (which is, I think, a good thing).

 

[lovecraft68]

Back to the "this wasn't book promotion" supposition. Just noticed that the book launched at Amazon already the day after you posted this thread (and would have had to have been submitted to Amazon before you posted this thread). So you were asking about a cover that you'd already submitted to Amazon.

For what it's worth, incidentally, I think the color contrasts look OK in the size Amazon ran it. The title can be read. I have to have known who the author was to read the author's name, and the subtitle is unreadable. The figure of the woman is such a solid blob that she no longer looks like an insurance saleslady (which is, I think, a good thing).

I submitted it the day after the thread started first thing in the morning. I am getting a better cover done, but am traveling for work now and wanted to get the book up before.

And um....no

Go back to the first post. The font was red and the original question was about the flames.

But then I got all the other feedback about the "black blob"

so if you saw the book on amazon you can see the font is silver, there are no flames and I shrunk down the black(which I did at your suggestion for what its worth as you were the first one to really call it out)

So this thread was very helpful.

As for promotion? You apparently went looking for it because its not in my sig, (something many here do) nor did I put it on "author's and their books"

I did mention it on my "homepage" here, but that's about it.

And yes, I think it looks better than some thought it would, but only after I made the changes and it still needs work. I am hoping to have a new cover waiting for me when I get back home.