Lest we forget

[loquere]

Police released the name and ages of the victims on Saturday.

Children:

Charlotte Bacon, 6

Daniel Barden, 7

Olivia Engel, 6

Josephine Gay, 7

Ana Marquez-Greene, 6

Dylan Hockley, 6

Madeleine Hsu, 6

Catherine Hubbard, 6

Chase Kowalski, 7

Jesse Lewis, 6

James Mattioli, 6

Grace McDonnell, 7

Emilie Parker, 6

Jack Pinto, 6

Noah Pozner, 6

Caroline Previdi, 6

Jessica Rekos, 6

Avielle Richman, 6

Benjamin Wheeler, 6

Allison Wyatt, 6

ADULTS

Rachel Davino, 29

Dawn Hochsprung, 47

Anne Marie Murphy, 52

Lauren Rousseau, 30

Mary Sherlach, 56

Victoria Soto, 27

The list does not include Nancy Lanza, 52, the suspect’s mother, or the suspect, Adam Lanza, 20

 

[loquere]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqVWqTFU5Nk

 

[lovecraft68]

You know I don't care what kind of "problems" this guy had all I know is there is a special place in hell for someone who can gun down little children like that.

If you're that fucked up, by all means, kill yourself, but taking innocents with you and scarring these poor parents for life is just about the most heinous thing you can do.

RIL Mr. Lanza

 

[loquere]

You know I don't care what kind of "problems" this guy had all I know is there is a special place in hell for someone who can gun down little children like that.

If you're that fucked up, by all means, kill yourself, but taking innocents with you and scarring these poor parents for life is just about the most heinous thing you can do.

RIL Mr. Lanza

Victoria Soto threw herself in front of bullets, to save her students. My God, she should never have had to do that. We need to honor these victims. We need to work toward a world, where evil like this is not possible.

 

[loquere]

MORGAN FREEMAN ON THE SHOOTINGS YESTERDAY:

"You want to know why. This may sound cynical, but here's why.

It's because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single victim of Columbine? Disturbed people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody.

CNN's article says that if the body count "holds up", this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer's face on all their reports for hours. Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer's identity? None that I've seen yet. Because they don't sell. So congratulations*, sensationalist media, you've just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next.

You can help by forgetting you ever read this man's name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem."

 

[PennLady]

You know I don't care what kind of "problems" this guy had all I know is there is a special place in hell for someone who can gun down little children like that.

If you're that fucked up, by all means, kill yourself, but taking innocents with you and scarring these poor parents for life is just about the most heinous thing you can do.

RIL Mr. Lanza

You're missing the point that because he was messed up, he's not thinking rationally. I'm not at all excusing what he did, because there isn't an excuse. But being mentally ill isn't like being sick with the flu. When your brain doesn't work properly, then you are not operating under normal rules.

 

[NekoParks]

Sick of the media speculation--not helpful

MORGAN FREEMAN ON THE SHOOTINGS YESTERDAY:

"You want to know why. This may sound cynical, but here's why.

It's because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single victim of Columbine? Disturbed people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody.

CNN's article says that if the body count "holds up", this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer's face on all their reports for hours. Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer's identity? None that I've seen yet. Because they don't sell. So congratulations*, sensationalist media, you've just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next.

You can help by forgetting you ever read this man's name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem."

I agree. This wall-to-wall coverage only leads to copycat crimes. This media saturation is not healthy and can capture the imagination of an unbalanced mind. Most of the information that initially came out of Columbine was inaccurate. For example, Eric Harris was not teased at school. He was not a "loner". He was a manipulative psychopathic sadist. People who work with children on a daily basis are sick at heart right now. There is no room for anger right now.

 

[NekoParks]

Anne Marie Murphy--Special Education Teacher

Anne Marie Murphy died Friday protecting the children she loved.

As a gunman fired a fusillade of bullets at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn., 52-year-old Murphy shielded the bodies of students, authorities told her father, Hugh McGowan of Katonah. Her body was found in a classroom, they told him, covering a group of children who died in the tragic shootings. . . ..

 

[loquere]

Never forget

 

[lovecraft68]

You're missing the point that because he was messed up, he's not thinking rationally. I'm not at all excusing what he did, because there isn't an excuse. But being mentally ill isn't like being sick with the flu. When your brain doesn't work properly, then you are not operating under normal rules.

Then perhaps the answer is along with standardized testing in schools the addition of a personality profiling test.

Messed up kids will test that way and the schools then parents can be notified and try to get the kid help.

also I'm sorry, but if he could think straight enough to do this then he receives no "he was ill" sympathy from me.

He killed his mother, took her guns and went to that school knowing full well what he was going to do.

That is called premeditated.

But I know its easier to see him as sick. Its just not realistic.

 

[lovecraft68]

I agree. This wall-to-wall coverage only leads to copycat crimes. This media saturation is not healthy and can capture the imagination of an unbalanced mind. Most of the information that initially came out of Columbine was inaccurate. For example, Eric Harris was not teased at school. He was not a "loner". He was a manipulative psychopathic sadist. People who work with children on a daily basis are sick at heart right now. There is no room for anger right now.

I think the fact that there are now people going out and getting the Adam Lanza haircut tells you that everything Freeman says is true and lends to my belief that this sick society not guns is truly behind events such as these.

 

[TE999]

MORGAN FREEMAN ON THE SHOOTINGS YESTERDAY:

" ... You can help by forgetting you ever read this man's name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem."

Morgan, you are Da Man! Two thumbs up.

for the victims of this tragedy.

 

[Blind_Justice]

Okay, there's one thing I can't wrap my head around, and I'm asking as an ignorant German: why is the average American so opposed to the idea of laws regulating the ownership and use of guns?

Sure, those with the criminal energywill always find a way to steal a gun, but why make it easier for unstable people to own or have access to firearms? It's not like you're still out on the frontier, fighting the bears and the natives for survival. And anyone who claims he needs a gun for home defence obviously hasn't realized that there's professionals for burglar hunting, right? Let those who nned guns have them. Soldiers, Cops, that's it. Why would anybody else willingly own a weapon anyway? I still fail to wrap my head around it.

 

[lovecraft68]

Okay, there's one thing I can't wrap my head around, and I'm asking as an ignorant German: why is the average American so opposed to the idea of laws regulating the ownership and use of guns?

Sure, those with the criminal energywill always find a way to steal a gun, but why make it easier for unstable people to own or have access to firearms? It's not like you're still out on the frontier, fighting the bears and the natives for survival. And anyone who claims he needs a gun for home defence obviously hasn't realized that there's professionals for burglar hunting, right? Let those who nned guns have them. Soldiers, Cops, that's it. Why would anybody else willingly own a weapon anyway? I still fail to wrap my head around it.

I can't wrap my head around why an entire country would be okay with the torture and murder of 6 million Jews, but hey, you assholes were all for it weren't you?

And that was after Germany had already started a world war. Hell you people were so dangerous you had to be divided, but you think we're wrong for wanting to own a firearm?

at least No one here is trying to commit genocide

 

[Boxlicker101]

Okay, there's one thing I can't wrap my head around, and I'm asking as an ignorant German: why is the average American so opposed to the idea of laws regulating the ownership and use of guns?

Sure, those with the criminal energywill always find a way to steal a gun, but why make it easier for unstable people to own or have access to firearms? It's not like you're still out on the frontier, fighting the bears and the natives for survival. And anyone who claims he needs a gun for home defence obviously hasn't realized that there's professionals for burglar hunting, right? Let those who nned guns have them. Soldiers, Cops, that's it. Why would anybody else willingly own a weapon anyway? I still fail to wrap my head around it.

There are laws regulating the ownership and use of firearms. If I chose to do so, I could go down to a local store and buy a pistol. The store would check with the police, etc. and, once they knew I am not a criminal or lunatic, I could come back and take the gun with me.

Lanza tried to do that, but was denied because of his mental health. So, he murdered his mother and took the guns she had acquired legally and used them. Completely banning guns would be stupid and even dangerous, because the criminals would still have them to use in their robberies and home invasions, etc., and they could do so with impunity because their victims would be unarmed.

 

[loquere]

Still not forgetting

 

[Blind_Justice]

I can't wrap my head around why an entire country would be okay with the torture and murder of 6 million Jews, but hey, you assholes were all for it weren't you?

And that was after Germany had already started a world war. Hell you people were so dangerous you had to be divided, but you think we're wrong for wanting to own a firearm?

at least No one here is trying to commit genocide

Oh wow, way to go to yank out the Nazi card and shove it down my throat. Do you feel morally superior now? I wasn't around when Hitler had his attempt at world conquest, so I don't have any kind of reliable numbers on how many Germans were involved with the actual killing and torturing of Jews, but what you just said can be mirrored into "every American is a racist, ask the Native Americans or the slaves that died on your plantations." Or, to pick a more modern example: Every American wants every muslim dead. Way to generalize.

I was merely asking, not judging or anything. The question remains: Why does a civilian need a whole cupboard, cellar or truck bed full of guns? To flatter your ego? For some imagined sense of security? How good would you judge your chances against a determined criminal invading your home? Or is it the thought that a percieved freedom could possibly be revoked?

I have never felt the need to own a gun. Even in a country as heavily regulated as ours, there are enough instances of people running amok (just google "Winnenden"), but would things have turned out differently if everyone in Germany would be allowed to have guns? No. The sixteen children killed by that idiot would still be dead.

 

[Blind_Justice]

There are laws regulating the ownership and use of firearms. If I chose to do so, I could go down to a local store and buy a pistol. The store would check with the police, etc. and, once they knew I am not a criminal or lunatic, I could come back and take the gun with me.

Lanza tried to do that, but was denied because of his mental health. So, he murdered his mother and took the guns she had acquired legally and used them. Completely banning guns would be stupid and even dangerous, because the criminals would still have them to use in their robberies and home invasions, etc., and they could do so with impunity because their victims would be unarmed.

I get your logic, but the determined (or desperate) criminal doesn't care if the victim is armed or not. I think, and I may be wrong, but when faced with an armed opponent, the inhibition threshold would be even lower, like in "it's either me or him, so fuck him - BANG", isn't it? The end result is the same - dead victim, with or without gun. And please, don't tell me that every gun owner is highly alert 24/7, has his gun at his side when his home is invaded or even hits with the first shot.

But then again, what do I know.

 

[TxRad]

I get your logic, but the determined (or desperate) criminal doesn't care if the victim is armed or not. I think, and I may be wrong, but when faced with an armed opponent, the inhibition threshold would be even lower, like in "it's either me or him, so fuck him - BANG", isn't it? The end result is the same - dead victim, with or without gun. And please, don't tell me that every gun owner is highly alert 24/7, has his gun at his side when his home is invaded or even hits with the first shot.

But then again, what do I know.

Do you know the sound a pump shotgun makes as it is loaded with a shell? Kind of a ka-chunck sound.

Most if not all criminals do and if they hear that on the other side of a door or in a dark room, it can and will give them second thoughts even if the gun has no shell in it. It has happened twice in my lifetime. Both times the would be people breaking in hauled ass.

 

[Boxlicker101]

I get your logic, but the determined (or desperate) criminal doesn't care if the victim is armed or not. I think, and I may be wrong, but when faced with an armed opponent, the inhibition threshold would be even lower, like in "it's either me or him, so fuck him - BANG", isn't it? The end result is the same - dead victim, with or without gun. And please, don't tell me that every gun owner is highly alert 24/7, has his gun at his side when his home is invaded or even hits with the first shot.

But then again, what do I know.

Somebody like Lanza or the killers in the theater in CO or at Columbine probably would not have been deterred by the knowledge that some of their intended victims were armed. They ended up killing themselves anyhow. However, if some of the victims had been able to shoot back, the carnage would have been lessened. the murders would still have been tragic, but there would have been fewer victims.

As for home invaders or armed robbers or rapists in general, they are usually looking for easy marks. They want to keep themselves safe and, as Tex describes, if they hear a shotgun being prepared to shoot on the other side of the door, they will go elsewhere to commit their evil deeds. Guns in the hands of citizens will deter some criminals and reduce the damage done by those who are not deterred.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Somebody like Lanza or the killers in the theater in CO or at Columbine probably would not have been deterred by the knowledge that some of their intended victims were armed. They ended up killing themselves anyhow. However, if some of the victims had been able to shoot back, the carnage would have been lessened. the murders would still have been tragic, but there would have been fewer victims.

It's not like these things only happen in states with restrictive gun laws; if the Lone Armed Hero was effective at stopping a rampage you'd think we'd hear about it happening a bit more often. So when's the last time an armed bystander stopped a spree shooting like you're talking about?

There was an armed bystander at Tucson. He didn't stop the shooter; by his own account, he did almost shoot one of the good guys by mistake.

As for Aurora CO: dark theater, tear gas, crowds, shooter with a ballistic vest - that is NOT a good scenario for the armed bystander. The bystander has to identify targets, unless they want to risk killing civilians; the shooter is happy to shoot at anything that moves. And when the cops show up, they have to figure out which armed man is the bad guy.

At that point the gunman probably doesn't even need to shoot people himself. Just throw a few tear gas grenades, let off a few poppers, and make a quiet exit, then see how many people get killed in the confusion.

 

[lovecraft68]

Lest we forget.

This is an erotic writing forum.

How about this shit heads to the GB on one of the dozen threads that are going on about it?

 

[loquere]

Lest we forget.

This is an erotic writing forum.

How about this shit heads to the GB on one of the dozen threads that are going on about it?

"shit?"

 

[DeeZire]

The SNL opening the night after the shooting - a childrens choir singing "Silent Night" - tore me up, and I'm not particularly fond of kids. Surprisingly, ever since the shooting, kids seem much more precious to me now. I realize parents already know how this feels, but being a non-parent, it was a real awakening.

 

[Boxlicker101]

It's not like these things only happen in states with restrictive gun laws; if the Lone Armed Hero was effective at stopping a rampage you'd think we'd hear about it happening a bit more often. So when's the last time an armed bystander stopped a spree shooting like you're talking about?

There was an armed bystander at Tucson. He didn't stop the shooter; by his own account, he did almost shoot one of the good guys by mistake.

As for Aurora CO: dark theater, tear gas, crowds, shooter with a ballistic vest - that is NOT a good scenario for the armed bystander. The bystander has to identify targets, unless they want to risk killing civilians; the shooter is happy to shoot at anything that moves. And when the cops show up, they have to figure out which armed man is the bad guy.

At that point the gunman probably doesn't even need to shoot people himself. Just throw a few tear gas grenades, let off a few poppers, and make a quiet exit, then see how many people get killed in the confusion.

With the exception of the Tucson shooting, all these mass killings happened in gun free areas. In the CO shooting, the light was not all that bad, and the "armed bystander' could have fired at the killer's legs or head. Imperfect, but the end result might not have been as bad.

ETA: Are you sure about the Tucson shooting? According to this, the "armed bystander," whose name was Zamudio, arrived after the gunman had been subdued by unarmed bystanders. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Tucson_shooting