God

[Tryharder62]

Your interpretation of the word "truth" is very liberal, considering that you don't have any verifiable proof or evidence of your version of it.

I'm doing great...

I have a busy and fun day planned.

Thanks for asking!

I have shared the points of my faith, I don't know if we have discussed this, but do you believe in any of the archeological evidence that verify the truths in the bible.

As to whether there is a God or not I do not have verifiable proof. Only a life changed. Mine. Likewise, I really believe that you can not prove there is not. I simply find it harder to believe that the beauties of this world occurred because of some big bang. There had to be a creator, IN MY OPINION.

Sooo are you going to let us know what you are doing today? Can I come?

 

[julybaby04]

I think to some the truth is scary!

I am sure your thoughts, which greatly echo mine, will be agreed with. Mine will not be, probably because I am very vocal in my belief.

I am truly only speaking to you, Tryharder, as you are a believer as well. In this day and age there are many who call themselves Christians but will not defend God when questioned or berated because of their beliefs. God does not want lukewarm. God is so amazing and deserves to be spoken of ...often.

I only shared that with you so you will understand my sharing of my views here. I am very aware that many do not care to hear anything I have to share...but that does not make God any less than who He is. It is a shame that those on here see me as arrogant or whatever only because I will not accept that there are many ways to God. That is not arrogance, as anyone can believe as they wish..as can I.

I do not put a lot of stock in naming a denomination to worship God. I put GREAT stock in the belief that there is only one way to God, through Jesus Christ.

 

[richard_daily]

I have shared the points of my faith, I don't know if we have discussed this, but do you believe in any of the archeological evidence that verify the truths in the bible.

As to whether there is a God or not I do not have verifiable proof. Only a life changed. Mine. Likewise, I really believe that you can not prove there is not. I simply find it harder to believe that the beauties of this world occurred because of some big bang. There had to be a creator, IN MY OPINION.

Sooo are you going to let us know what you are doing today? Can I come?

You have shared your opinions, which are the basis for your faith.

I can respect that, and I can respect your opinion and your faith if that's where it ends.

However, you have not provided "truth", in any way, shape, or form.

Your life has been "changed" by the god that your opinion holds exists...

No problem.

You are free to believe whatever you want.

However, when you want to proselytize, that's where I take issue with it, because you have not (and cannot) provide verifiable fact to back up your opinions.

 

[Exquisition]

Are you feeling persecutated or suffering in any way because of the way I stated my beliefs?

Not with you personally July, you come over as a moderate in all truthfullness, the point was more aimed at the thought process behind the words.

It's the same path the zealots and fundamentalists start on when they persecute in the name of their God. Because their God, their path is the only one true path.

It is the same path that sees an American pastor burn the Koran and the same path that sees fundamentalist Muslims call non-believers of their Faith "infidels" or "Kaffir" as a derogative.

If there was a magic sets of weighing scales that could measure the relative 'good' and 'bad' carried out in the name of each of the major religions I wouldn't mind betting the balance sheet is firmly in the red.

PErsonally, I hate monotheistic religion because of this. Because it cna be a hot bed for extremism and because those moderates like you do not shout with a loud enough voice when you see extreme zealots acting in the name of your God.

If I had my way anyone who wanted to seek out a belief system to justify their existence and try to explain the inexplicable would follow a path of pure spirituality not predicated on supersistition and, frankly, hog wash.

All other religions would be banned.

 

[julybaby04]

You have shared your opinions, which are the basis for your faith.

I can respect that, and I can respect your opinion and your faith if that's where it ends.

However, you have not provided "truth", in any way, shape, or form.

Your life has been "changed" by the god that your opinion holds exists...

No problem.

You are free to believe whatever you want.

However, when you want to proselytize, that's where I take issue with it, because you have not (and cannot) provide verifiable fact to back up your opinions.

I hear what you are saying...and I believe there is much evidence that God exists. It does take the willingness to see it and believe it.

I would also say that there is absolutely no proof that God does not exist. Science can only go so far, and even at that....it is people who created this science in the form of reports. People are fallible and they also will have their own bias and beliefs which can sway the way the see things. To believe that all science is neutral is a bit nieve.

A life lived, where I can see God working, is all the proof I need, ...personally.

 

[richard_daily]

I hear what you are saying...and I believe there is much evidence that God exists. It does take the willingness to see it and believe it.

I would also say that there is absolutely no proof that God does not exist. Science can only go so far, and even at that....it is people who created this science in the form of reports. People are fallible and they also will have their own bias and beliefs which can sway the way the see things. To believe that all science is neutral is a bit nieve.

A life lived, where I can see God working, is all the proof I need, ...personally.

There is no verifiable evidence that god exists.

There is no proof that vishnu doesn't exist, no proof that the celestial dance party doesn't exist, and no proof that the flying spaghetti monster doesn't exist.

Your "faith" is not based on proof, it's based on opinion. Again, an opinion that you're welcome to have, but once you try to force it upon others, that's where the issues comes up.

 

[Tryharder62]

I am sure your thoughts, which greatly echo mine, will be agreed with. Mine will not be, probably because I am very vocal in my belief.

I am truly only speaking to you, Tryharder, as you are a believer as well. In this day and age there are many who call themselves Christians but will defend God when questioned or berated because of their beliefs. God does not want lukewarm. God is so amazing and deserves to be spoken of ...often.

I only shared that with you so you will understand my sharing of my views here. I am very aware that many do not care to hear anything I have to share...but that does not make God any less than who He is. It is a shame that those on here see me as arrogant or whatever only because I will not accept that there are many ways to God. That is not arrogance, as anyone can believe as they wish..as can I.

I do not put a lot of stock in naming a denomination to worship God. I put GREAT stock in the belief that there is only one way to God, through Jesus Christ.

That is just it. There is no wrong way to share your faith. I think you are so well spoken and articulate that it makes people realize that smart people are trusting God. God is leading you to share your faith a certain way. Don't change a bit.

I always go on the assumption when I make a post that my post in my opinion. If the only thing that they can pick apart in my post is that I didn't write that it was my belief and my opinion then I just write that it is my belief and my opinion. The rest is sinking in. You are making a difference.

I truly respect all beliefs. In my path on this earth I haven't found anything that changes my opinion about my Heavenly Father, Jesus and the HolySpirit that lives in me. A pastor helped me when I was worrying about bringing people with me to heaven. He said we tend to think of heaven as a big ship and God is trying to push us off. In reality he is trying to pull as many aboard as will open their heart to him.

I have never gotten some unbelievers to understand the awesomeness of God. People ask, if he is so great why didn't he just make people follow him like little robots. I always answer because he loves us. He gave us the choice to love him or not. It breaks his heart when we don't. He loves those who believe and those who don't.

Don't change a bit julybaby. I am wondering if I am quite a bit older than you? It's nice to have you on the boards.

 

[Tryharder62]

I just love God so much I want to share the good news and what He has done in my life. THAT IS ALL!

 

[richard_daily]

I just love God so much I want to share the good news and what He has done in my life. THAT IS ALL!

No, that is not all. You are taught to "share" as it is seen by your leaders of your church as effective propaganda for conversion.

You claim it's "no big deal", but that's exactly where you're wrong. Unless you can have an ethical conversation involving facts and the holes in your opinion (i.e., your faith), then all you're doing, is having a one sided conversion... which is your means of attempting conversion.

That is inherently dishonest.

 

[julybaby04]

Not with you personally July, you come over as a moderate in all truthfullness, the point was more aimed at the thought process behind the words.

It's the same path the zealots and fundamentalists start on when they persecute in the name of their God. Because their God, their path is the only one true path.

It is the same path that sees an American pastor burn the Koran and the same path that sees fundamentalist Muslims call non-believers of their Faith "infidels" or "Kaffir" as a derogative.

If there was a magic sets of weighing scales that could measure the relative 'good' and 'bad' carried out in the name of each of the major religions I wouldn't mind betting the balance sheet is firmly in the red.

PErsonally, I hate monotheistic religion because of this. Because it cna be a hot bed for extremism and because those moderates like you do not shout with a loud enough voice when you see extreme zealots acting in the name of your God.

If I had my way anyone who wanted to seek out a belief system to justify their existence and try to explain the inexplicable would follow a path of pure spirituality not predicated on supersistition and, frankly, hog wash.

All other religions would be banned.

I would imagine many on here would not agree with your view of me as moderate...lol.

There are always extremes....in anything in this life. Religion is no different. The examples you give of the preacher who burned the koran, I think he was just mad at the pass that muslims seemed to be given in the US. I don't agree with what he wanted to do, just as I do not agree with the Muslims that hate the US. I also don't agree with the church group that protests funerals and such. All of these are very far from who God is and what He wants us to do...in my opinion.

There are so many examples of people using their "faith" to really just use their own personal selfishness to do what they want. To be a follower of Christ requires giving up our own desires and wants. Perhaps that is the rub with being a Christian....people do not want to do that, and that is understandable. It is not easy, and, personally, I fail everyday.....but I keep trying.

In the end, each has their own life to live and make their own decisions. I trust God and live my life accordingly.

 

[Tryharder62]

There is no verifiable evidence that god exists.

There is no proof that vishnu doesn't exist, no proof that the celestial dance party doesn't exist, and no proof that the flying spaghetti monster doesn't exist.

Your "faith" is not based on proof, it's based on opinion. Again, an opinion that you're welcome to have, but once you try to force it upon others, that's where the issues comes up.

Well I disagree. Do you believe that Julius Ceasar existed? There is much more evidence that Jesus Christ existed. The archeological evidence exists but unbelievers don't seem to care about that. In my opinion there are a lot of things that you can see as the evidence of the existence of God but some exploding gas is more exciting to some I guess.

My faith is based on the original texts of the bible. The bible that contains the writings of the old testement and those of the apostles of Jesus Christ or their assistances. No archeological discovery has ever contridicted the bible of MY BELIEFS.

As to forcing it on others aren't we on a thread that is discussing God. If you don't like me discussing my God then put me on iggy. It would be pretty boring on a God thread to not have a side that truly believe is God.

 

[julybaby04]

That is just it. There is no wrong way to share your faith. I think you are so well spoken and articulate that it makes people realize that smart people are trusting God. God is leading you to share your faith a certain way. Don't change a bit.

I always go on the assumption when I make a post that my post in my opinion. If the only thing that they can pick apart in my post is that I didn't write that it was my belief and my opinion then I just write that it is my belief and my opinion. The rest is sinking in. You are making a difference.

I truly respect all beliefs. In my path on this earth I haven't found anything that changes my opinion about my Heavenly Father, Jesus and the HolySpirit that lives in me. A pastor helped me when I was worrying about bringing people with me to heaven. He said we tend to think of heaven as a big ship and God is trying to push us off. In reality he is trying to pull as many aboard as will open their heart to him.

I have never gotten some unbelievers to understand the awesomeness of God. People ask, if he is so great why didn't he just make people follow him like little robots. I always answer because he loves us. He gave us the choice to love him or not. It breaks his heart when we don't. He loves those who believe and those who don't.

Don't change a bit julybaby. I am wondering if I am quite a bit older than you? It's nice to have you on the boards.

I appreciate your words. I think you share your faith in a lovely way and it shows in your words on here.

I agree, God would love every person with Him in heaven...He made us all and loves us with a jealous love. But God will not force Gimself on any of us. I think that is why, for those of us who believe, that it is that much more important. It was truly a gift....and it is appreciated that way. I do love that it is a gift for anyone ....and I love that too!!

I am not sure of your age, but I am 48...

 

[richard_daily]

Well I disagree. Do you believe that Julius Ceasar existed? There is much more evidence that Jesus Christ existed. The archeological evidence exists but unbelievers don't seem to care about that. In my opinion there are a lot of things that you can see as the evidence of the existence of God but some exploding gas is more exciting to some I guess.

My faith is based on the original texts of the bible. The bible that contains the writings of the old testement and those of the apostles of Jesus Christ or their assistances. No archeological discovery has ever contridicted the bible of MY BELIEFS.

As to forcing it on others aren't we on a thread that is discussing God. If you don't like me discussing my God then put me on iggy. It would be pretty boring on a God thread to not have a side that truly believe is God.

Assuming your statement is correct (which is heavily debatable), that Jesus Christ existed, is not evidence that he was the son of god.

You have no clue who wrote the original texts of the bible, not to mention you have no clue the names of the men (and I promise you they were men) who translated the bible dozens of times over.

Have you ever tried to tell someone something, and they told someone else, and so on and so on?

Get to the seventh or eight person, and see how close to the original message remains to the original... but you can still go to the fact that you can't prove it was the true "message of god" in the first place anyways.

No one needs to disprove your bible, it's YOUR responsibility to prove it if you're going to try to call it fact.

 

[Tryharder62]

No, that is not all. You are taught to "share" as it is seen by your leaders of your church as effective propaganda for conversion.

You claim it's "no big deal", but that's exactly where you're wrong. Unless you can have an ethical conversation involving facts and the holes in your opinion (i.e., your faith), then all you're doing, is having a one sided conversion... which is your means of attempting conversion.

That is inherently dishonest.

Honey, it may be early because I have no idea what you are talking about. Propaganda for conversation

You want to discuss ethics?

I have looked at all aspects of my faith. I wasn't always a believer. I didn't make that decision until I was 18. Even after that decision I had periods of searching. I'm 46 now and for me this is it.

I am curious as to what you believe, are you an atheist?

 

[julybaby04]

Assuming your statement is correct (which is heavily debatable), that Jesus Christ existed, is not evidence that he was the son of god.

You have no clue who wrote the original texts of the bible, not to mention you have no clue the names of the men (and I promise you they were men) who translated the bible dozens of times over.

Have you ever tried to tell someone something, and they told someone else, and so on and so on?

Get to the seventh or eight person, and see how close to the original message remains to the original... but you can still go to the fact that you can't prove it was the true "message of god" in the first place anyways.

No one needs to disprove your bible, it's YOUR responsibility to prove it if you're going to try to call it fact.

It is interesting that the exact response has been given before, by unbelievers, only to have them say the exact opposite once they became believers.

It truly does not matter what any Christian says to you at this point. You do not want to believe...no matter what.

There is not one non-believer who believed any of this until God allowed him to be capable of the understanding which truly defies all earthly reason. It just will not happen.

We can discuss points all day long here....but it truly is about faith. Non-believers do not have that.

 

[Tryharder62]

Assuming your statement is correct (which is heavily debatable), that Jesus Christ existed, is not evidence that he was the son of god.

You have no clue who wrote the original texts of the bible, not to mention you have no clue the names of the men (and I promise you they were men) who translated the bible dozens of times over.

Have you ever tried to tell someone something, and they told someone else, and so on and so on?

Get to the seventh or eight person, and see how close to the original message remains to the original... but you can still go to the fact that you can't prove it was the true "message of god" in the first place anyways.

No one needs to disprove your bible, it's YOUR responsibility to prove it if you're going to try to call it fact.

Excuse me but I don't have a responsibility to do anything like that. My responsibility is to examine the evidence I am given on the earth. Archeological, Scientific or whatever and make a decision for myself as to what I believe. Big Bang My great grandpa's an ape etc etc. I Choose Jesus.

Then when there are God threads on porn boards I get to express my opinion that the holy spirit lives in my heart and I am a better person for knowing him.

 

[Tryharder62]

I appreciate your words. I think you share your faith in a lovely way and it shows in your words on here.

I agree, God would love every person with Him in heaven...He made us all and loves us with a jealous love. But God will not force Gimself on any of us. I think that is why, for those of us who believe, that it is that much more important. It was truly a gift....and it is appreciated that way. I do love that it is a gift for anyone ....and I love that too!!

I am not sure of your age, but I am 48...

Holy Cow! God made you good!!! I am 46. Your av is gorgeous. Thought you were younger.

 

[richard_daily]

Honey, it may be early because I have no idea what you are talking about. Propaganda for conversation

You want to discuss ethics?

I have looked at all aspects of my faith. I wasn't always a believer. I didn't make that decision until I was 18. Even after that decision I had periods of searching. I'm 46 now and for me this is it.

I am curious as to what you believe, are you an atheist?

The way that you are taught to "share" your faith, is propaganda. You learned it from a very early age, I'd assume.

Missionaries are taught this even more thoroughly, how to "relate" to people, and then give them the ultimate answer, which is of course, your god.

I don't believe that we have all the answers, and that we won't during our lifetimes. It will be many generations before we have an adequate view of the universe and what created it.

I don't subscribe to the simple answer, but I don't believe that a god that resembles the one that is presented in the bible exists.

 

[richard_daily]

Excuse me but I don't have a responsibility to do anything like that. My responsibility is to examine the evidence I am given on the earth. Archeological, Scientific or whatever and make a decision for myself as to what I believe. Big Bang My great grandpa's an ape etc etc. I Choose Jesus.

Then when there are God threads on porn boards I get to express my opinion that the holy spirit lives in my heart and I am a better person for knowing him.

As long as you don't attempt to present your god as any sort of truth to anyone except for yourself, then you're correct, you don't need to do anything to prove the bible is true.

However, you are attempting to do that in this thread, so unless you can prove the bible as fact, you're morally unable to present the bible to us as evidence of proof of god.

 

[richard_daily]

It is interesting that the exact response has been given before, by unbelievers, only to have them say the exact opposite once they became believers.

It truly does not matter what any Christian says to you at this point. You do not want to believe...no matter what.

There is not one non-believer who believed any of this until God allowed him to be capable of the understanding which truly defies all earthly reason. It just will not happen.

We can discuss points all day long here....but it truly is about faith. Non-believers do not have that.

Your arrogance that the "final destination" is YOUR faith is very telling.

Your opinion is that you're correct, and that you have all of the answers to the universe. I wholeheartedly disagree. There is far too much out there to refute your beliefs, and you choose to cling to your bible. By all means, continue, but don't take pity on me for not believing in fairy tales, unless you want me to feel sorry for you for believing in a biblical santa claus.

 

[Tryharder62]

You have shared your opinions, which are the basis for your faith.

I can respect that, and I can respect your opinion and your faith if that's where it ends.

However, you have not provided "truth", in any way, shape, or form.

Your life has been "changed" by the god that your opinion holds exists...

No problem.

You are free to believe whatever you want.

However, when you want to proselytize, that's where I take issue with it, because you have not (and cannot) provide verifiable fact to back up your opinions.

I don't prosti... anything. lol. But my friend you can't provide me verifiable facts to back up your opinion that there is no God.

Worse case scenario. You don't believe, die, and are in the black cold earth for eternity. I believe and am wrong and am with you in the black cold earth and there is nothing or I am right and I have a mansion in the sky with Jesus. I've had peace and love on this earth and an eternity of it to come. I'm Ok with that. I have also lived my life well.

My dad had such a strong faith. He didn't believe exactly as I did. His bible had a few more chapters in the middle. I can't explain his death - that was a memory God allowed for me to see. I think his mansion has a bike path. I have no proof but in my opinion it does.

 

[julybaby04]

Your arrogance that the "final destination" is YOUR faith is very telling.

Your opinion is that you're correct, and that you have all of the answers to the universe. I wholeheartedly disagree. There is far too much out there to refute your beliefs, and you choose to cling to your bible. By all means, continue, but don't take pity on me for not believing in fairy tales, unless you want me to feel sorry for you for believing in a biblical santa claus.

I do not pity you. I was a non believer at one time as well. I was just as condescending as you are. I was just as willfully rude as you are. I was just as determined as you are not to believe in God.

I will do for you what countless others told me they did for me....I will pray.

 

[richard_daily]

I don't prosti... anything. lol. But my friend you can't provide me verifiable facts to back up your opinion that there is no God.

Worse case scenario. You don't believe, die, and are in the black cold earth for eternity. I believe and am wrong and am with you in the black cold earth and there is nothing or I am right and I have a mansion in the sky with Jesus. I've had peace and love on this earth and an eternity of it to come. I'm Ok with that. I have also lived my life well.

My dad had such a strong faith. He didn't believe exactly as I did. His bible had a few more chapters in the middle. I can't explain his death - that was a memory God allowed for me to see. I think his mansion has a bike path. I have no proof but in my opinion it does.

I don't need to come up with evidence that there is no god, any more than I can ask you to disprove vishnu, krishna, the planet kobul, or any other religious "fact".

The burden of proof is on you, not on me. You're the one claiming that your god exists.

 

[richard_daily]

I do not pity you. I was a non believer at one time as well. I was just as condescending as you are. I was just as willfully rude as you are. I was just as determined as you are not to believe in God.

I will do for you what countless others told me they did for me....I will pray.

Yeah, that's a perfect example of the arrogance I was referring to.

 

[Tryharder62]

As long as you don't attempt to present your god as any sort of truth to anyone except for yourself, then you're correct, you don't need to do anything to prove the bible is true.

However, you are attempting to do that in this thread, so unless you can prove the bible as fact, you're morally unable to present the bible to us as evidence of proof of god.

I am telling you there is archeological evidence for the bible. The historical significance is greatly reported even if you choose not to believe that there is a diety. Jesus walked this earth!!!!

But yes, there is a faith component, no doubt about that.

Hey, You never did say what fun things you were doing? Got time for a cup of coffee? I must go now. The clan wants breakfast and I have the capabilities to provide it. I am just not saying how good it will be. Have a good day all