What happened to all of the doom and gloom economic threads?

[mercury14]

No, it's not the price of gas that's shutting down coal plants. It's the EPA who is shutting down coal plants....

The EPA didn't shut down any plants. There are new regulations on pollution and the 50 year old dinosaur plants have to undergo expensive upgrades or switch to natural gas which is cheaper and more profitable anyway. Even some more modern coal plants are switching to natural gas.

 

[RobDownSouth]

The EPA didn't shut down any plants. There are new regulations on pollution and the 50 year old dinosaur plants have to undergo expensive upgrades or switch to natural gas which is cheaper and more profitable anyway. Even some more modern coal plants are switching to natural gas.

And it's worth noting (though the Garbage Cans of the board will deny this) that the older plants have had up to 20 years to modernize their plants, and did nothing. Now, of course, their inactivity has resulted in a "crisis", and they are counting on low-information dullards like Garby to spread the "it's NOT FAIR" message for them.

Serious Derp.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444083304578014263085473262.html

The Environmental Protection Agency and some outside energy specialists say the Obama administration doesn't bear primary responsibility for the struggles of coal-fired plants, which must compete against plants using America's cheap and newly abundant supplies of natural gas.
[image]

"Environmental regulations are a factor, but in most instances they are not the major factor," an EPA spokeswoman said. "The principal driver is the energy market."

Natural gas prices down 34% from a year ago, coal prices up 19% but Garby wants to blame regulation.

Derp Derp Derp.

 

[Adre]

I guess Mr. Can is using a coal stove to fry his eggs every morning. it is not easy dragging these bitter old white dudes into this century.

 

[garbage can]

The EPA didn't shut down any plants. There are new regulations on pollution and the 50 year old dinosaur plants have to undergo expensive upgrades or switch to natural gas which is cheaper and more profitable anyway. Even some more modern coal plants are switching to natural gas.

To my knowledge, there is one regulatory czar. Who shut down the plants via regulation?

Show me where gas is cheaper than coal.

You may recall during the '08 elections, Obama warned the folks not to try to open a coal plant.

 

[RobDownSouth]

Show me where gas is cheaper than coal.

Here you go, bitch.

 

[garbage can]

Natural gas prices down 34% from a year ago, coal prices up 19% but Garby wants to blame regulation.

Derp Derp Derp.

Interesting, you'd think market forces would determine which plants are making money.

Nope, it's the regulatory agencies.

 

[Busybody]

RECOVERY SUMMER FALL WINTER NEVER? “Has the U.S. economy turned a corner? Yes, and then another corner and now it’s going backward. A slew of bad economic data today,” as collated by James Pethokoukis of the American Enterprise Institute:


If the above forecast is correct, the National Bureau of Economic Research might wind up declaring that the U.S. economy slipped back into recession in late 2012 even though the economy was actually not yet contracting at that point. (Here is my post from earlier on why we are in the recession red zone.)

And if that happens, economic historians might well shove aside the weak three-year recovery and call the entire 2007-2013 period, the Long Recession or some such. I have already have been, just like the 1980-82 period was a long recession, two downturns sandwiching a brief recovery.

“I can only express my disgust so many times, Ace adds. “This is huge, and the media is embargoing it entirely.”

Well, they’ve got bigger stories to focus on — such as, did Romney hire a new blogger for his campaign staff?

 

[Sean Renaud]

Interesting, you'd think market forces would determine which plants are making money.

Nope, it's the regulatory agencies.

Why would you think that?

 

[Busybody]

Tee Hee....they "found" people that are working...TEE HEE

As if we didnt know


The BLS Just Discovered Almost 400,000 Missing Jobs in Its Rebenchmarking


By Matthew Yglesias

|





When it comes to economic data, as with much else in life, the media tends to overweight the new relative to the true. So each monthly jobs report is scrutinized, but later revisions tend to get ignored. Yet today the Burea of Labor Statistics did a rebenchmarking and found 386,000 new jobs.


As you'd expect, that doesn't utterly transform our understanding of the economy. The job market is still weak, all things considered. But it's not as weak as the data we've been seeing imply. And that can help us explain things like "why has the unemployment rate been falling despite weak payroll growth?" or even "how can Mitt Romney be losing with the economy doing so poorly?" The payroll growth maybe wasn't quite as weak as we thought, and the economy overall was perhaps doing a bit better.


And these are just revisions through March. We won't have the real data story of what was going on this fall and summer until long after the election is done, and by then probably it'll just get ignored.


Note that the benchmarking added a net of 386,000 jobs. In gross terms it actually subtracted 67,000 government jobs so the rebalancing of the American economy away from government employment and toward the private sector has actually gone somewhat further than we realized. Note that this also means that the Obama Era has crossed the symbolically important zero line. More Americans are employed today than were when he took office.

 

[garbage can]

Interesting, you'd think market forces would determine which plants are making money.

Nope, it's the regulatory agencies.

Why would you think that?

I guess my mind is fucked up.

Here I thought market forces determined prices, not regulatory agencies.

 

[mercury14]

I guess my mind is fucked up.

Here I thought market forces determined prices, not regulatory agencies.

Coal and gas prices are determined by the market bro.

 

[unregistered]

 

[unregistered]

 

[garbage can]

Coal and gas prices are determined by the market bro.

No shit Dick Tracy..... but coal fired power plant closings are determined by the regulatory agencies.

 

[Busybody]

No shit Dick Tracy..... but coal fired power plant closings are determined by the regulatory agencies.

since I cant SMACK you upside teh head

you should do it


trying to "talk" to THE SCMUCK.......its impossible

 

[Busybody]

Sources: USA TODAY analysis; U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis
By Kevin Kepple and Maureen Linke, USA TODAY

Red states' income growing faster than blue states'
By Dennis Cauchon, USA TODAY

Income is growing much faster in Republican-leaning "red states" than in Democratic-tilting "blue states" or the pivotal swing states that will decide the 2012 presidential election, a USA TODAY analysis finds.





Personal income in 23 red states has risen 4.6% since the recession began in December 2007, after adjusting for inflation. Income is up just 0.5% in 15 blue states and Washington, D.C., during that time. In the dozen swing states identified by USA TODAY that could vote either way Nov. 6, income has inched ahead 1.4% in 4 ½ years.

The big drivers of red state income growth: energy and government benefit payments such as food stamps.

By contrast, Democratic blue states are more affluent but were hit harder by the downturn. Connecticut, dependent on the financial industry, suffered the largest income drop except swing-state Nevada. Yet Connecticut residents still make $10,000 a year more on average than people in fast-growing North Dakota.

When averaged nationally, the robust gains in red states and meager gains in blue states produced a national growth rate remarkably similar to that in the swing states.

USA TODAY analyzed income data released this week by the Bureau of Economic Analysis to compare how red, blue and swing states have fared through June 30. The difference in income gains is partly because blue states are richer and more populated than red states — 42% of the nation's income vs. 30% in red states. Also, the economic recovery since the recession officially ended in June 2009 has been distributed unequally around the country.

North Dakota, a red state, tops the nation in income growth thanks to an oil boom. Other major energy states — Alaska, Louisiana, Oklahoma and Texas — are solidly Republican, polls show. Poor, southern red states depend heavily on government transfers for income and benefited from increases in Medicaid and other federal programs.

The 12 swing states are diverse, but combined, they are remarkably average. Annual income per person is closer to the U.S. average than that in red or blue states. Last year, income rose 1.5% in swing states and 1.6% in the USA. Since Obama took office, income growth is up 1.9% in swing states and 2.0% in the USA.

Michael Ettinger of the liberal Center for American Progress, says, "Polls show more people blame former president Bush for a recovery that hasn't been satisfying and Mitt Romney is very Bush-esque."

Jonathan Williams at the conservative American Legislative Exchange Council says income growth in red states shows that low taxes and business-friendly regulation produce economic growth.

Columbia University statistician Andrew Gelman, author of Red State, Blue State, Rich State, Poor State, says local conditions matter less than people think. "People vote based on what they think is good for the country, not what's good for themselves."

Key swing state findings:

•Declines. Four of the 10 slowest growing are swing states: New Hampshire, Michigan, Florida and Nevada. The Silver State's income plunge is in a class of its own, down 10.8% because of its real estate collapse.

•Gains. Eight of the top 10 states in income growth lean Republican.

•Working. Compensation has fallen 2.1% in swing states and 1.8% in blue states since December 2007. It's up 1.7% in red states. Keeping income afloat everywhere: a 25% increase in government payments nationwide.

 

[Ulaven_Demorte]

No shit Dick Tracy..... but coal fired power plant closings are determined by the regulatory agencies.

Holy fucking shit..

You mean plants that have had 20 years to upgrade their shit and didn't are closing now?

They drug their feet and fought tooth an nail against every regulation designed to make their operations cleaner and more efficient. You know, so they aren't polluting the atmosphere and water.. And I'm supposed to lament the fact that their lack of action may result in closing down?

I'm not feeling it.

 

[Ulaven_Demorte]

That was an error on my part. I had it correct in my post to Garby just before you arrived:

http://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=42094464&postcount=22431

but nonetheless, Obama claimed to know in great enough detail how bad it was to have surrendered the excuse that nobody knew how bad it really was when he said this:

"will inherit an economic and financial mess worse than anything the US has faced in decades:" the worst recession in 50 years;" the worst financial and banking crisis since the 1930s; a massive fiscal deficit; a huge current account one; "a financial system that is in a severe crisis and where deleveraging is still occurring at a very rapid pace," thus making the credit crunch worse; a household sector in disarray with millions insolvent and forclosures rising; the risk of serious deflation; a liquidity trap for the Fed as well; and "the risk of a severe debt deflation as the real value of nominal liabilities will rise given price deflation while the value of financial assets is still plunging."

Where exactly did you find that cobbled together mess of a pseudo-quote from President Obama? Because it looks like a whole bunch of statements from different times making it impossible to guess at what point any of them were made.

In short, the entire affair looks like a failed attempt to take a bunch of sound bites and try to make it look like a single statement.

Shorter, It looks like Bullshit.

Since you ignored this question once already...

Not that I expect you to answer it now. I'm just giving you a chance to ignore it and run off. Again..

 

[garbage can]

Holy fucking shit..

You mean plants that have had 20 years to upgrade their shit and didn't are closing now?

They drug their feet and fought tooth an nail against every regulation designed to make their operations cleaner and more efficient. You know, so they aren't polluting the atmosphere and water.. And I'm supposed to lament the fact that their lack of action may result in closing down?

I'm not feeling it.

Of course you're not feeling it. You're not one of the 10's of thousands of people being laid off in a time where employment is crucial.

 

[RobDownSouth]

Holy fucking shit..

You mean plants that have had 20 years to upgrade their shit and didn't are closing now?

They drug their feet and fought tooth an nail against every regulation designed to make their operations cleaner and more efficient. You know, so they aren't polluting the atmosphere and water.. And I'm supposed to lament the fact that their lack of action may result in closing down?

I'm not feeling it.

S'okay....Garby has enough outrage for both you and him. Probably enough outrage for the entire board, truth be told.

 

[RobDownSouth]

Of course you're not feeling it. You're not one of the 10's of thousands of people being laid off in a time where employment is crucial.

Care to share the last time employment wasn't crucial?

Derp.

 

[garbage can]

S'okay....Garby has enough outrage for both you and him. Probably enough outrage for the entire board, truth be told.

And your point is..............?

Can I assume you favor killing jobs in the energy business?

 

[garbage can]

Care to share the last time employment wasn't crucial?

Derp.

Tell that to Obama's regulatory agencies.


Derp.

 

[RobDownSouth]

And your point is..............?

Can I assume you favor killing jobs in the energy business?

You can assume anything you want. It's not like anyone takes you seriously around here anyway.

 

[RobDownSouth]

Tell that to Obama's regulatory agencies.


Derp.

Great non-sequitur, dumpy. Keep that situational outrage coming.