Something that confuses me

[Missouribiguy]

Hey all,

It's been a while since I made a more or less serious topic. I mean, providing porn links can be fun, but sometimes, you have to branch out. Anyway, my mother is a fan of the soap opera Days of Our Lives, which recently turned one of their main character, Will Brady, into a homosexual one. That's fine, more power for them.

However, I think they kind of fuck up his storyline by having Will have sex with his former girlfriend, who also happens to his mom's ex husband's younger sister. This has offended alot of people, who think they should have Will be with a guy (they have a secondary gay character after all). As a bisexual man, I view it that either they might turn him into a bisexual (which can be a double standard in terms of playing on the old stereotype) or still being sexually confused.

The point I am making is, does it feel weird hearing from a gay guy who admits sleeping with women, but denies being bisexual? I had a friend who sleeps with a female co-worker, but says he's not bi. That somewhat dumbfounds me since I am bi.

 

[Stella_Omega]

yeah, it feels wierd, in the exact same way that people pretend they are totally straight. I think a lot of people tell themselves (and others) that they are monosexual-- gay, lesbian, straight-- because, they tell themselves, the other sex they have isn't important and doesn't matter--not as much as their status supposedly does.

 

[Missouribiguy]

yeah, it feels wierd, in the exact same way that people pretend they are totally straight. I think a lot of people tell themselves (and others) that they are monosexual-- gay, lesbian, straight-- because, they tell themselves, the other sex they have isn't important and doesn't matter--not as much as their status supposedly does.

I agree, Stella. It seems like they aren't comfortable in their own skin. Let's see if you heard this before "I'm straight, but I like cock".

 

[Etoile]

You could also look at the differences between sexual attraction and romantic attraction. If a guy likes to sleep with both men and women, but only wants relationships with one or the other, then I would say he has the right to define himself however he wants. It's not that he's denying his bisexuality, it's that for him having relationships is a more important part of your identity than where you stick your dick.

Sexual orientation, to me, is not about the things you do and who you do them with. It's about how you feel about those people. IMO, as long as you have considered the possibility that you're gay/straight/bisexual (and not in a "ew, that's gross" way), then why can't you just enjoy sex with whomever without compromising your identity? It's when a person won't consider the possibility that I have a problem with it. (I also have a problem with society dictating someone's identity, but that's another story.)

I dunno. I mean, it's helpful to put people into boxes, but it doesn't seem exactly kind. If I'm not sleeping with them, what business is it of mine how they identify?

 

[kbate]

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[Etoile]

kbate <3

But since this is a 'serious thread': Sex is sex, love is love. Gay is not sex, anyone is capable of the physical act with either sex. Revolting as the idea is, I suppose I could do it if perhaps the other option was being boiled in acid and fed to pigs.

This was part of my point, as well. I think when we use the terms "gay" and "bisexual" we are talking about relationships. The term "bi-romantic" arose to address this - the fact that some people may be bi-sexual, but not bi-romantic. That the term exists at all is testament to the fact that there are people who have sex with both men and women, but not relationships. And as kbate says, anyone can have gay or straight sex. I suspect people who are married but still in the closet do it all the time, from a sense of obligation. And probably people did it all the time in the past if they wanted kids even though they were gay.

 

[kbate]

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[Hitchiker69]

Soaps are fantasy, no more real than an episode of 'The Simpsons' Would you really spend any time analyzing Miss Krabapple's love life?

Suggestion? Turn off the TV. Get out of the house. Meet real people. Have more sex.

You may end up creating your own complicated relationships, resembling a soap opera. But it will be real, and it will be yours. You will be creating and participating, rather than just observing.

 

[Etoile]

Soaps are fantasy, no more real than an episode of 'The Simpsons' Would you really spend any time analyzing Miss Krabapple's love life?

Suggestion? Turn off the TV. Get out of the house. Meet real people. Have more sex.

You may end up creating your own complicated relationships, resembling a soap opera. But it will be real, and it will be yours. You will be creating and participating, rather than just observing.

But there are real people who behave this way!

 

[Luna_Wolf72]

*raises hand*

For 8 years I participated in women only relationships.
I considered myself very queer centric and had no intention of EVER dealing with a man again, in life.

Imagine my shock, awe, and other things when almost three years into my last relationship, it hit me that what I wanted...right then...was a man.

Did that make me think less of myself? Yes. The way I saw myself allowed for none of that particular penis/vagina thing. Most of my friends are queer. Hell, I have spent years battling the negative stereotypes concerning bisexual females~

No we are not ALL whores.
No we don't get to choose who we love.
Yes, I can BE faithful.

But all of that was blown out of the water, the day I woke up and thought~I can not do this anymore. I want a penis. A real one. I don't want to give it, I want to receive it.

Sometimes one's sexual identity doesn't conform to what you want. It is a part of you but it is not YOU.

I am queer.
I am bi-amorous.
I have been known to love men and women at different times in my life, equally.
I STILL prefer women.

But I am dating...a man.

*shrugs*

sex is just sex...the basic mechanics remain the same no matter which holes get used. It's the way the person sees themselves (and not how society thinks they should be) that matters.

*nods*

But it is damned difficult to think of oneself as being bi anything when for the most part you are drawn to your own sex for emotional entanglements...

 

[mac_crazy]

There are some really thoughtful, intelligent people and opinions in this thread. That's why I love Lit. Thanks for sharing your insights. Well said, each and every one of you.

(and the great porn pics/links doesn't hurt)

 

[Chrissi]

yeah, it feels wierd, in the exact same way that people pretend they are totally straight. I think a lot of people tell themselves (and others) that they are monosexual-- gay, lesbian, straight-- because, they tell themselves, the other sex they have isn't important and doesn't matter--not as much as their status supposedly does.

You could also look at the differences between sexual attraction and romantic attraction. If a guy likes to sleep with both men and women, but only wants relationships with one or the other, then I would say he has the right to define himself however he wants. It's not that he's denying his bisexuality, it's that for him having relationships is a more important part of your identity than where you stick your dick.

Sexual orientation, to me, is not about the things you do and who you do them with. It's about how you feel about those people. IMO, as long as you have considered the possibility that you're gay/straight/bisexual (and not in a "ew, that's gross" way), then why can't you just enjoy sex with whomever without compromising your identity? It's when a person won't consider the possibility that I have a problem with it. (I also have a problem with society dictating someone's identity, but that's another story.)

I dunno. I mean, it's helpful to put people into boxes, but it doesn't seem exactly kind. If I'm not sleeping with them, what business is it of mine how they identify?

I sound like such a suck up, but among others Stella and Etoille express my thoughts.

I haven't watched the show, so I cannot comment on the circumstances, but even I know some men who do on occasion hookup with a woman, but they would never consider anything beyond a one time thing. Certainly never and ongoing relationship. And trust me when I say these guys are as gay as I am.

I have even hooked up one time, shhhhh.

 

[CJontherocks]

One could make the argument that Will Brady was always gay. The writers, upon realizing and coming to terms with his sexuality, probably freed him from the bonds of heterosexual society's expectations and norms.

We often use terms like "gay" and "bisexual" and even "straight" to categorize concepts in order to understand and process them. These are terms that people made up to define something in a simple way for conversation and for understanding. But they are just terms. If we tried to come up with a word for each person's sexuality, we'd probably end up with about 7 billion words.

No, I don't think it's weird that Will slept (or even sleeps) with his ex-girlfriend and still considers himself gay. There are likely some emotions there that can't be defined by sexuality, and he can't deny even as a gay man that sex with her was pretty good. Sex is kinda like pizza... no matter how bad it is, it's still kinda good.

 

[Chrissi]

One could make the argument that Will Brady was always gay. The writers, upon realizing and coming to terms with his sexuality, probably freed him from the bonds of heterosexual society's expectations and norms.

We often use terms like "gay" and "bisexual" and even "straight" to categorize concepts in order to understand and process them. These are terms that people made up to define something in a simple way for conversation and for understanding. But they are just terms. If we tried to come up with a word for each person's sexuality, we'd probably end up with about 7 billion words.

No, I don't think it's weird that Will slept (or even sleeps) with his ex-girlfriend and still considers himself gay. There are likely some emotions there that can't be defined by sexuality, and he can't deny even as a gay man that sex with her was pretty good. Sex is kinda like pizza... no matter how bad it is, it's still kinda good.

And of course even more sage advice from CJ.

This is something I can somewhat relate to. My current bf was formerly married to a woman. They are divorced now, and the divorce was very acrimonious, although unrelated to his sexuality. He also has an adult son from that marriage.

Of course we have talked about it (his prior married life) and he indicates that despite being married, he knew he was gay from an early age. It was just that he was conforming to social "norms" of the time. I suspect there are many, many, many gay men who are married (to a woman) or where formerly married. Yes, "gay," and not bisexual, despite the fact that they are or were once married and have or had relations with a woman.

I think our current younger generation will not have to suffer those familial/societal expectations as in the past, however my BF, despite the bad breakup, would not change his former life if he could. Primarily because of his son, and all those memories.

 

[Luna_Wolf72]

I'm interested to know how your lesbian friends reacted to you getting entangled with a man. In your experience was there any peer group pressure to remain in one camp or the other regarding your sexual desires? Do both camps view bisexuals with suspicion or worse?
It sounds like you asked yourself some hard questions but I applaud your simple conclusion - *shrugs* - exactly!!!

For the most part, my lesbian friends have been pretty supportive. Even if they don't dig it, even if they don't understand it~they know ME well enough to know that this whole friggin thing ate at me for months. I didn't just walk away. I fought against it, argued and cried and begged...

I didn't want it.

AT all.

The majority of the lesbian women I know (that I do not consider friends) have all had the same sort of attitude~"We knew you'd backslide. Next time don't expect someone like us to want you."

It is hurtful and very very wrong. As I didn't just bounce away from the woman I loved without a by your leave. It took months of me wanting her and being unable to be with her sexually, months of me having nightmares of her cheating because I wasn't doing my job, months of arguments and feeling like a total piece of shit.

The guys that are my friends ignore the whole thing. I ain't banging them so they don't care. Same with the straight ladies of my acquaintance...it is just the lesbian women that I get guff from...

but I expected it...and I accept it now.

They aren't me. They have a right to their opinions but at the end of the day, I KNOW that I went through hell while my sexuality did a complete 180. I owe no one no explanations. The only person I owed an explanation TO? Got one.

 

[Luna_Wolf72]

Fuck it - I feared you might say that and I'm so, so sorry. I find that really quite upsetting... if not entirely surprising. Jeez - have we progressed so little as a species despite our vaunted liberal views? Love?! Well... old saying but... times like these you find out who your real friends are *hug* ( if that's ok? - its as much for me as you )

*returns the hug*

I think bisexual people are painted with a lot of different brushes.
We are the ones that can sneak into straight land and no one ever knows.
We are the ones that (if we find the right sort of opposite sex partner) can have our cake and eat it too.

For me? Love has never really been based upon gender configuration but after 8 years of being with women, loving women, enjoying women~ I thought I knew where i would be for the rest of my life.

I was wrong.

The only thing worse than being wrong is knowing that I spent 6 months fighting a losing battle and hurting a woman that I absolutely adored because (as she put it when she was angry) She didn't have the right part.

That hurt...because at that moment...it was true. It wasn't about dating a man for me. It was about wanting to fuck a penis. Do you see the difference?

*head shake*

Anyway, enough of my rambling. I just figured it went with the topic at hand and so I had to share.

 

[Hitchiker69]

But there are real people who behave this way!

Perhaps there are...but my point was to live life rather than watch it happening to others.
Who do you suppose is having a more interesting life; those who sit on a couch next to mom, and watch TV about other people with complicated lives? Or those who are out living a real life, having sex and otherwise interacting with real people?
You gotta get off the couch, stick your neck out, take a risk now and then, in order to live more fully. Otherwise you might as well start work on your own obituary.

My $.02 anyway.

 

[Missouribiguy]

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