Abort or die?

[coachdb18]

I know this is a serious subject, so please, don't tempt me like that.

Which is why I asked the question, how are abortion and the shootings in Aurora different? Are they not both the mass killings of human beings? In terms of scale, Aurora was far less damaging than the thousands involved in death by abortion...

 

[badbabysitter]

Which is why I asked the question, how are abortion and the shootings in Aurora different? Are they not both the mass killings of human beings? In terms of scale, Aurora was far less damaging than the thousands involved in death by abortion...

because they're not remotely the same , dumbass


women being allowed to vote is still an atrocity to you

 

[BotanyBoy]

Why must you lie?

She's not lying...all you can do is come up with emotional woo woo woo....you sound like a liberal advocating some dumb shit gun control position.


BUT BUT BUT....I THINK ITS WROOOONG!!! good for you...SCOTUS disagrees now
http://bostonbiker.org/files/2012/05/GTFO.png

 

[RobDownSouth]

And you are making this an either or scenario. Which is short sighted. Yes you either have the baby or your don't, but to suggest that is one person's choice alone (ie the woman's cause she dem dare carries that childrens) is immature and grandstanding for your own ends.

Yes it is your body alone. No it is not your child alone.

If you somehow figure out a way to have a child without some spermies you can choose to do whatever the fuck you want.

She is, however, correct in that a father has no legal right whatsoever in America with regard to a woman's decision to seek an abortion. This was decided in the Supreme Court case Planned Parenthood v. Danforth.

 

[Recidiva]

Which is why I asked the question, how are abortion and the shootings in Aurora different? Are they not both the mass killings of human beings? In terms of scale, Aurora was far less damaging than the thousands involved in death by abortion...

No, because a human being is not a fertilized ova.

You're extending a definition beyond its breaking point.

By that definition, any act of male masturbation or ejaculation is also mass murder on the scale of 300 million on average.

A woman who doesn't get pregnant commits 12 murders a year, as well as being an accessory to all that senseless sperm death.

Time and growth and work and effort invested into a human being makes a difference, biologically and socially.

All potential things are not the thing itself.

 

[RobDownSouth]

Mensa boy, there is a difference between abortion and mass murder.

Abortion is permitted under the law.
Murder is not permitted under the law.

So much for your pathetic attempt to conflate the two.

 

[eyer]

Ha! I lied when I quoted you saying "vast number of women die at the hands of planned parenthood"? Did I hack your account and edit your post too?

You lied with your last misquote...

...this time - the above - you're again misquoting.

Try using the quote feature to figure out what I actually posted instead of you lying about what I posted.

 

[mustang200]

You understand that well over a 1 million+ American human lives die each year "from abortion", right?

BTW: you didn't Google, did ya? Try it: not only will you find deaths at the hands of PP, but deaths at all the other abortion facilities, too.

Well, I took the challenge, and was surprised. It seems that when the onion is peeled back, there are more deaths that can be attributed to to abortion or as a sequalae of abortion than anyone thought possible.

Abortion Related Deaths Compared to Childbirth Related Deaths

Maternal Deaths and Long Term Complications - Abortion - Childbirth - "The statistics presented by Cates represent substantial under- reporting and disregard women’s reluctance to return to a clinic, where, in their mind, they received inadequate treatment." L. Iffy, "Second Trimester Abortions," JAMA, vol. 249, no. 5, Feb. 4, 1983, p. 588.

What can cause the maternal death in abortion?

The main causes are infection, hemorrhage and uterine perforation. Other events include Hepatitis C, and subsequent Liver Cancer and AIDS from blood transfusion, amniotic fluid embolism, though rare, has "emerged as an important cause of death from legally induced abortion." Deep depression and guilt following an abortion leads to suicide. The cause listed, suicide! Actual cause, abortion.

Reading the above article suggest under reporting of the true cause, either to mask the true cause for political reasons, to spare the family further pain, or because the attending at the terminal care facility just did not know about the abortion as the cause of the cascade of events.

Deaths Associated with Abortion Compared With Childbirth - A Review, David C. Reardon, PhD, et. al, Journal of Contemporary Health Law and Policy, 2004. “After thirty years of experience with legal abortion in the United States, it is now clear that mortality risks associated with abortion significantly exceed those associated with childbirth, both in the short term (under one year) and in the longer term.”

A List of Major Physical Complications of Abortion

"Approximately 10% of women undergoing induced abortion suffer from immediate complications, of which one-fifth (2%) were considered major.19 However the majority of complications take time to develop and will not be apparent for days, months or even years. Major risks and complications of abortion are described, with citations to the medical literature, below."

"According to the best record based study of deaths following pregnancy and abortion, a 1997 government funded study in Finland, women who abort are approximately four times more likely to die in the following year than women who carry their pregnancies to term. In addition, women who carry to term are only half as likely to die as women who were not pregnant."


The net is full of this stuff. When you pull back the onion, as I stated above, Planned Parenthood prevaricates. Margaret Sanger, founder of PP, had as her goal, eugenics. When you look up the term "racist" in the dictionary, it is her picture that you find next to the definition. It is not coincidental that the majority of the PP clinics are found in the ghetto. It is no surprise that the majority of abortions done in the US are done to (committed on?) young black women.

My story: The woman I dated through college became pregnant shortly before I left to join the Navy. I asked her to marry me, but she declined, wanting an abortion instead. I pleaded with her to have the child and either give it to me or give it up for adoption. I asked her to marry me, which is something I wanted to do anyway. This was just months after Roe v Wade. She was adamant. I paid for the abortion. We both immediately regretted it. She sent me a "Dear John" while I was in Boot Camp. That was in 1974. To cope, I named the child, I am sure that she would have been female, and a beauty, and I ask for her forgiveness often. I ran into the my former girlfriend by accident last year. She has not yet come to grips with her depression, and continues to be miserable. We talked for hours, and I suggested that she get some help. I hope that she does.

 

[mustang200]

No, because a human being is not a fertilized ova.

You're extending a definition beyond its breaking point.

By that definition, any act of male masturbation or ejaculation is also mass murder on the scale of 300 million on average.

A woman who doesn't get pregnant commits 12 murders a year, as well as being an accessory to all that senseless sperm death.

Time and growth and work and effort invested into a human being makes a difference, biologically and socially.

All potential things are not the thing itself.

So, by your definition, a 6 month old post-fetus is not yet a human being, because time and growth and work and effort have not yet been invested into it. Or has it? Where do you draw the line?

Ejaculate and unfertilized eggs do not have a complete set of chromosomes, so do not count as human, but then you know that, didn't you?

 

[blobfish]

No, because a human being is not a fertilized ova.

You're extending a definition beyond its breaking point.

By that definition, any act of male masturbation or ejaculation is also mass murder on the scale of 300 million on average.

A woman who doesn't get pregnant commits 12 murders a year, as well as being an accessory to all that senseless sperm death.

Time and growth and work and effort invested into a human being makes a difference, biologically and socially.

All potential things are not the thing itself.

I've committed genocide on an unbelievable scale. Also, I'm a cannibal.

 

[Recidiva]

So, by your definition, a 6 month old post-fetus is not yet a human being, because time and growth and work and effort have not yet been invested into it. Or has it? Where do you draw the line?

Ejaculate and unfertilized eggs do not have a complete set of chromosomes, so do not count as human, but then you know that, didn't you?

No, a 6 month old fetus is viable. America has pushed back the time where a child might be considered viable, but at a huge cost. Interventions taken before week 25 or 26 tend to result in a child that has undeveloped lungs requiring intervention with steroids and mechanical breathing vents, which damage the lungs further, and ventricular bleeds, which rarely heal and cause more brain damage. The child might be born alive, but does not do well and most of the "live birth" stats from hospitals that intervene before 25 weeks have the stat of a live birth, but they send the child to a care facility where the child will likely never develop and statistically will die, but it leaves the hospital with a claim of live birth.

From my own personal preferences, I would only allow abortion up through the first trimester.

Second trimester abortions are getting into the area where I'd rather only see it if someone's life is at risk, and after 25 weeks (depending on the standard of care in a hospital) it's not legal.

Yes, I do know that. What I do not know is why having a complete set of chromosomes makes much of a distinction when you're really still dealing with two cells that have fused. Then those cells begin to divide and the clock starts ticking between unviable and viable.

 

[Recidiva]

I've committed genocide on an unbelievable scale. Also, I'm a cannibal.

I've only had kids and I've been personally responsible for billions of deaths. Maybe trillions. That's not good math!

 

[blobfish]

I've only had kids and I've been personally responsible for billions of deaths. Maybe trillions. That's not good math!

Now you're turning me on.

 

[TexasWife25]

Mustang


I didnt read the whole thing, as most of your links are from prolife sites.

Can you please site me something that says how many women die at planned parenthood each year due to abortion related complications.

 

[coachdb18]

No, because a human being is not a fertilized ova.

You're extending a definition beyond its breaking point.

By that definition, any act of male masturbation or ejaculation is also mass murder on the scale of 300 million on average.

A woman who doesn't get pregnant commits 12 murders a year, as well as being an accessory to all that senseless sperm death.

Time and growth and work and effort invested into a human being makes a difference, biologically and socially.

All potential things are not the thing itself.

Abortion, to anyones definition, involves a human after conception. Trying to tie abortion to masturbation is the breaking point of definition.

 

[Recidiva]

Abortion, to anyones definition, involves a human after conception. Trying to tie abortion to masturbation is the breaking point of definition.

No, not by my definition and not by medical definition.

My example is as ridiculous to you as your example is ridiculous to me.

 

[coachdb18]

No, not by my definition and not by medical definition.

My example is as ridiculous to you as your example is ridiculous to me.

To be able to effectively kill, you must first effectively find the means to reduce their humanity.... in war, we find terms which do this like 'japs', 'gooks', 'nazis', 'nips', etc ... in abortion, we do the same thing by calling a human being in its first stges of life a 'blob of cells', 'fetus', etc. The fact that conception occurs is a scientific fact of our biology, and it is well known that, unless it is stopped by a violent act, a conceived human being follows a nine month path to its birth. Sperm and egg are not yet conceived entities taken separately. Trying to wordsmith biology doesn't do anything for anyone, and it's a serious misuse of a dictionary.

 

[Recidiva]

To be able to effectively kill, you must first effectively find the means to reduce their humanity.... in war, we find terms which do this like 'japs', 'gooks', 'nazis', 'nips', etc ... in abortion, we do the same thing by calling a human being in its first stges of life a 'blob of cells', 'fetus', etc. The fact that conception occurs is a scientific fact of our biology, and it is well known that, unless it is stopped by a violent act, a conceived human being follows a nine month path to its birth. Sperm and egg are not yet conceived entities taken separately. Trying to wordsmith biology doesn't do anything for anyone, and it's a serious misuse of a dictionary.

"Conception" is called conception because it's the beginning of the process that leads to personhood. It isn't holy. It's a moment medically defining where cells join.

You can't cut out that nine month path and pretend what happens at the beginning and what happens at the end are the same.

 

[coachdb18]

"Conception" is called conception because it's the beginning of the process that leads to personhood. It isn't holy. It's a moment medically defining where cells join.

You can't cut out that nine month path and pretend what happens at the beginning and what happens at the end are the same.

Just as that a newborn and a geriatric octogenarian are not the same, biologically, but we are all human from the point of conception.

You say you don't believe it's holy based on your disbelief in God, but most people are not atheistic. It's a faith statement.

 

[Recidiva]

Just as that a newborn and a geriatric octogenarian are not the same, biologically, but we are all human from the point of conception.

You say you don't believe it's holy based on your disbelief in God, but most people are not atheistic. It's a faith statement.

I'm aware it's a faith statement, so I'm aware I can't get you to think your way out of something that you didn't think your way into.

Render unto Caesar. This is in the realm of medicine.

 

[coachdb18]

I'm aware it's a faith statement, so I'm aware I can't get you to think your way out of something that you didn't think your way into.

Render unto Caesar. This is in the realm of medicine.

What most don't consider is that, for there to be a creation, there is a creator. Whatever you decide that to be, science tells us as a matter of physics that neither matter nor energy can be created or destroyed, yet there exists both matter and energy throughout the created universe. It exists...

Not all scientists are atheists, and not all believers in God appreciate the value in science.

 

[Recidiva]

What most don't consider is that, for there to be a creation, there is a creator. Whatever you decide that to be, science tells us as a matter of physics that neither matter nor energy can be created or destroyed, yet there exists both matter and energy throughout the created universe. It exists...

The Creator does not show up on the birth certificate. We're speaking medical and legal truth, not someone without an address. This is a human issue and we must do our best to solve it with some sanity.

The rest is just you giving me some pseudo mystical bullshit that might dazzle a high 15-year-old of dubious intelligence into saying "whooooah" but it otherwise meaningless in context.

 

[Recidiva]

Not all scientists are atheists, and not all believers in God appreciate the value in science.

I'm not an atheist, I'm an agnostic. But this I do know about.

If you don't appreciate the value of science then what the fuck are you doing using a computer?

 

[coachdb18]

I'm not an atheist, I'm an agnostic. But this I do know about.

If you don't appreciate the value of science then what the fuck are you doing using a computer?

I have stated here before, I have multiple science degrees, and fully appreciate science, which in no way does less than to help satisfy my curiosity about the natural world I live in. To me, science is my method of finding out about the creation, but science is not the creation itself.

 

[Recidiva]

I have stated here before, I have multiple science degrees, and fully appreciate science, which in no way does less than to help satisfy my curiosity about the natural world I live in. To me, science is my method of finding out about the creation, but science is not the creation itself.

Curiosity is fine, but certainty in an area that is faith based and extending it to another is arrogance. I stick to the medicine because it's the only reality I can objectively assume extends to another person. Their faith is entirely unique to them and isn't a reflection of my faith or lack thereof.

I didn't opt to have abortions myself, it wasn't right for me. That doesn't extend to me believing that it wouldn't result in a greater good for someone else.

Think all you want, argue all you want, as long as you don't actively try to stop someone from doing what's right for them, I'm cool. I'm fine with persuasion, but not coercion.

You're welcome to your faith and your Creator and your curiosity, with my blessing and my curiosity to want to know what your life is like for you. Projecting that or enforcing that on others is where my line gets drawn.