The appeal of punishment?

[amiboo]

I've searched the forum and I'm not finding an answer to my question which is basically, What is the appeal of giving punishment?

I'm reading this Fifty Shades of Grey series and I struggling to understand why he enjoys punishing her by hitting her.

I get spanking as a part of sex play or kinky fuckery as they call it in the books. My husband and I have played with it on both sides and I enjoy both giving and receiving. I have tied my husbands hands and spanked him along with anal penetration and as a part of giving him such pleasure it really has turned me on but I don't see the connection between that and holding him down and spanking him as a punishment to him.

The point of punishment seems to be to hurt the receiver of the punishment and I don't understand how this is pleasurable. In my head it's just abusive. Since the character in the book who enjoys punishing his girlfriend really loves her I really want to understand why he would want to hurt her.

 

[Stella_Omega]

It was written by someone who was completely ignorant of BDSM. That's why.

The writer needed BDSm as a plot point, something they could fight over, someting he could give up to prove how much he loves her.
http://p.twimg.com/AyKWLB4CEAA2qX-.jpg:small

That being said; yes-- there are many people who really get off on humiliation and punishment dynamics. James never talked to any of them, obviously-- but you can find them on this forum, and some very smart eloquent people they are, too

 

[amiboo]

Ok, I can accept that this author is not giving an accurate description of what a D/s relationship is like but punishment is a part of it, isn't it?

So is punishment meant to be enjoyable for the giver and painful/unenjoyable for the receiver? If so what part of it is enjoyable? The pain? The control? I'm sincerely interested and curious

 

[desertslave]

There are a LOT of variations, and I couldn't possibly cover all of them, but in some relationships punishment can be one feature. Sometimes it's because the Dominant "says so" and for Their pleasure, sometimes the submissive also enjoys it physically, and/or emotionally. It can be a catharsis and an act of forgiveness, kind of like a reset button if a rule is broken or a request denied. Sometimes it's all done in fun and the sub is, on some level, daring or baiting the Dom in order to gain a punishment that's actually pleasurable for them. In any of these examples it might be the exercise of control that's a turn-on for either side, or the action giving/receiving of pain, or a combination.

Then, just to muddy the waters, there are some of us who just plain enjoy giving/receiving pain (with or without pleasure along with it) just for the sake of the pain, without any sort of "punishment" context whatsoever.

Here's a fun one...how do you punish a submissive who gets off on pain?

Welcome to the kaleidoscope!

ETA: One thing to keep in mind is, whatever variation a couple (or more) might indulge in, it's pretty much always with consent of both parties.

 

[subwannabe]

I totally agree. In my opinion there are only two options to this:

1. Someone likes to be punished or spanked, hit etc. But, if they actually like it, then how is it punishment? They are getting what they want.

2. The hitting is very severe, beyond what the receiver "enjoys" or wants. In this case, why on earth would they want to receive it as it isn't pleasurable at all, in any way?

 

[Bramblethorn]

Ok, I can accept that this author is not giving an accurate description of what a D/s relationship is like but punishment is a part of it, isn't it?

So is punishment meant to be enjoyable for the giver and painful/unenjoyable for the receiver? If so what part of it is enjoyable? The pain? The control? I'm sincerely interested and curious

Depends what you mean by 'punishment'. A lot of BDSM folk will play with make-believe punishments, but using BDSM methods to settle real grievances... if nonconsensual, it's abuse, pure and simple. If consensual, I'll leave it as "not something I'd recommend and not something I can relate to".

As to why people enjoy consensual BDSM... books have been written about it, and probably everybody has their own answers. Some common ones:

- It lets people explore their fears in a safe environment.
- It's an exercise in trust.
- Pain releases endorphins, which can contribute to pleasure.

For me, it's about a feeling of connection: knowing that I can change somebody's mental state and set their nerves a-jangling with a word or a touch... or a well-placed clothes peg.

 

[kiwi_submissive]

For me personally, punishment is not so much about the pain. There are also numerous punishments that are not physically painful.

I find that it knowing that I have done something wrong and broken rules that are in place and disappointed the other person enough that they punish me to be worse than the actual punishment.

 

[Salenku]

Fifty Shades is not BDSM, hon. From my (limited) understanding, punishment is administered as part of play that is intended for pleasure for BOTH of you. It's absolutely NOT an outlet for every teenage-type tantrum as suggested in the book...

Look around here, your fellow posters are lovely. You'll get a better understanding if what it's all about...

 

[ownedsubgal]

if you are talking about actual punishment, and not "funishment," where mutual pleasure/excitement is the basis of it all, then it is enjoyable for neither the receiver nor giver. for the Dominant it is a time of disappointment above all else. with many there is also frustration at lessons yet unlearned by the submissive, and yes sometimes even anger if in the infraction involved actual disobedience. it is not a fun, sexy, happy time for anyone.

but it is a mutual cleansing, a wiping the state clean and starting fresh kind of thing. but punishment is one of those things that if you don't get it, you just don't get it.

 

[Salenku]

if you are talking about actual punishment, and not "funishment," where mutual pleasure/excitement is the basis of it all, then it is enjoyable for neither the receiver nor giver. for the Dominant it is a time of disappointment above all else. with many there is also frustration at lessons yet unlearned by the submissive, and yes sometimes even anger if in the infraction involved actual disobedience. it is not a fun, sexy, happy time for anyone.

but it is a mutual cleansing, a wiping the state clean and starting fresh kind of thing. but punishment is one of those things that if you don't get it, you just don't get it.

Ok, so, this makes the most sense to me... Thank you, ownedsubgal.

 

[ownedsubgal]

From my (limited) understanding, punishment is administered as part of play that is intended for pleasure for BOTH of you.

that absolutely does not describe punishment in any fashion. however it is sadly true that many engage in certain activities for the purposes described and label them "punishment" because it makes it all the hotter/kinkier for them.

i wonder why so many bypass your basic dictionary?

pun·ish
 
verb (used with object)

1.
to subject to pain, loss, confinement, death, etc., as a penalty for some offense, transgression, or fault: to punish a criminal.
2.
to inflict a penalty for (an offense, fault, etc.): to punish theft.
3.
to handle severely or roughly, as in a fight.
4.
to put to painful exertion, as a horse in racing.

in my decade+ as a slave, i have been subjected to all 4 of the above types of punishments. but i have never once been subjected to the slap and tickle, you're a baaaad girl, everyone cums in their panties so-called "punishment."

 

[BiBunny]

I don't do the punishment thing, but I didn't realize we'd all suddenly been granted the authority to decide who's in abusive relationships and who isn't now.

 

[ownedsubgal]

you are more than welcome Salenku.

 

[Salenku]

you are more than welcome Salenku.

I have to say, the brand of 'punishment' you described seems far more exciting, though!

 

[Cattypuss]

I have to say, the brand of 'punishment' you described seems far more exciting, though!

Oh god, don't say that! Haven't you picked up yet on the fact that OSG thinks that pyls who enjoy BDSM for sexual pleasure/excitement are beneath her contempt?

 

[subwannabe]

I'm in kind of a quandry with my wife. I have spanked or "punished" her before on occasion and she has done it to me also. It is more play related than actual punishment. Neither one of us has done it for a while. She recently read "Fifty Shades of Grey" and it has got her thinking about it again for herself. I haven't done it with her much in quite a while because I'm pretty sure she wants me to spank her as a punishment for something, such as spending too much money. That is my quandry. I don't really want her to spend too much money or engage in other similar types of behaviors that I don't really want her to and if I spank her for it, it would actually encourage her to engage in those types of behaviors more and more so that she can get "punished". So, I have basically been avoiding going down this road and really don't know what to do. Maybe the answer is to "reward" her for good behavior by spanking her but this seems to be contrary to the whole idea of spanking for punishment and she wouldn't want to be spanked hard enough to be a real punishment that would be strong enough to actually discourage the behavior she had engaged in. Somehow I find myself between a rock and a hard place.
Any ideas?

 

[sweet_lusciousdesire]

Mild pain can be very erotically stimulating. It hits some raw primal need. Being a Mistress or a Master has it's own rewards. It's a very heady, powerful feeling. To have someone that is willing to do whatever you desire is a huge turn on. If a little pain is energetically greeted then the master is just taking care of the needs of his sexual interest.

 

[ecstaticsub]

I'm in kind of a quandry with my wife. I have spanked or "punished" her before on occasion and she has done it to me also. It is more play related than actual punishment. Neither one of us has done it for a while. She recently read "Fifty Shades of Grey" and it has got her thinking about it again for herself. I haven't done it with her much in quite a while because I'm pretty sure she wants me to spank her as a punishment for something, such as spending too much money. That is my quandry. I don't really want her to spend too much money or engage in other similar types of behaviors that I don't really want her to and if I spank her for it, it would actually encourage her to engage in those types of behaviors more and more so that she can get "punished". So, I have basically been avoiding going down this road and really don't know what to do. Maybe the answer is to "reward" her for good behavior by spanking her but this seems to be contrary to the whole idea of spanking for punishment and she wouldn't want to be spanked hard enough to be a real punishment that would be strong enough to actually discourage the behavior she had engaged in. Somehow I find myself between a rock and a hard place.
Any ideas?

Not all spankings are created equal. There are spankings that are enjoyable for both partners that can be a part of foreplay. Then you can spank just for punishment that would not lead directly to sex, nor are designed to be erotic. Much of this is in the emotional mindset that both partners are in at the time.

Just an idea...but a punishment spanking can be very quick, painful and not in the bedroom. When it is over normal household activities resume. At least in my eyes this is completely different then sexy, impact play for both partner's enjoyment.

(it is also not abusive if it is something agreed upon for your dynamic)

 

[Sir_Winston54]

I'm in kind of a quandry with my wife. I have spanked or "punished" her before on occasion and she has done it to me also. It is more play related than actual punishment. Neither one of us has done it for a while. She recently read "Fifty Shades of Grey" and it has got her thinking about it again for herself. I haven't done it with her much in quite a while because I'm pretty sure she wants me to spank her as a punishment for something, such as spending too much money. That is my quandry. I don't really want her to spend too much money or engage in other similar types of behaviors that I don't really want her to and if I spank her for it, it would actually encourage her to engage in those types of behaviors more and more so that she can get "punished". So, I have basically been avoiding going down this road and really don't know what to do. Maybe the answer is to "reward" her for good behavior by spanking her but this seems to be contrary to the whole idea of spanking for punishment and she wouldn't want to be spanked hard enough to be a real punishment that would be strong enough to actually discourage the behavior she had engaged in. Somehow I find myself between a rock and a hard place.
Any ideas?

I am a sadist. I like giving pain, a good deal of it. My partners have been people who like receiving pain, a good deal of it. Therefore, pain ≠ punishment.

As a result, I had to learn to be a little creative. Were rules broken, or something "wrong" done in another context? How do I punish someone who *likes* pain? Essays. Especially essays of a specified length. "Write down what you did, why you shouldn't have done it, how it affected our relationship/agreement, and how you're going to avoid doing that again."

The act of acknowledging the transgression, the reason it *was* a transgression, its effect on *us,* and preventive action, in writing, is one of the most effective non-physical punishments I've ever run into. Especially if I go into English teacher mode and require that it be entirely correct: sentence/paragraph construction, grammar, punctuation, and spelling. Of course, it all has to be hand-written, not typed on a computer, and if there are errors, completely re-written.

A few hours of writing cramps later, one can be fairly certain that *that* specific behavior is not likely to be repeated.

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

I am a sadist. I like giving pain, a good deal of it. My partners have been people who like receiving pain, a good deal of it. Therefore, pain ≠ punishment.

As a result, I had to learn to be a little creative. Were rules broken, or something "wrong" done in another context? How do I punish someone who *likes* pain? Essays. Especially essays of a specified length. "Write down what you did, why you shouldn't have done it, how it affected our relationship/agreement, and how you're going to avoid doing that again."

The act of acknowledging the transgression, the reason it *was* a transgression, its effect on *us,* and preventive action, in writing, is one of the most effective non-physical punishments I've ever run into. Especially if I go into English teacher mode and require that it be entirely correct: sentence/paragraph construction, grammar, punctuation, and spelling. Of course, it all has to be hand-written, not typed on a computer, and if there are errors, completely re-written.

A few hours of writing cramps later, one can be fairly certain that *that* specific behavior is not likely to be repeated.

Which is all so very satisfyingly sadistic.

 

[Netzach]

Ok, I can accept that this author is not giving an accurate description of what a D/s relationship is like but punishment is a part of it, isn't it?

So is punishment meant to be enjoyable for the giver and painful/unenjoyable for the receiver? If so what part of it is enjoyable? The pain? The control? I'm sincerely interested and curious

Catharsis.

I don't get into this, personally, but I understand how it works for people and I *can* do it with someone who needs it badly enough.

If you're dealing with people who carry guilt around very well, it's a way to release some of that guilt. Forgetting to buy chunky peanut butter instead of smooth is not a big issue in the grand scheme of things, but some adults will feel MASSIVELY better if their partner spanks them, forgives them, reminds them not to do it again, and says "we have put this past us." Some will feel better if you stand them in a corner holding a quarter with their nose to the wall for 2 hours or soaping out their mouth or what have you.

I think it becomes a template for some deeper shit to be dealt with, internally, because on the surface I don't get it either.

I don't love this kind of thing because I expect people to OWN their behavior and act accordingly. I expect apology and attempts not to repeat the offending behavior. In a D/s sense, I am there to be served, not to parent or re-parent a child who has not grown up to the point of respecting someone else. I also don't give a crap about most "small stuff" - if I was a person who did, this would be a great tool.

 

[ownedsubgal]

Oh god, don't say that! Haven't you picked up yet on the fact that OSG thinks that pyls who enjoy BDSM for sexual pleasure/excitement are beneath her contempt?

that's funny, because (online anyway) it seems that such pyls find me beneath their contempt, and not worthy of sharing an opinion on diddlysquat.

i have never claimed to be a practitioner of BDSM, hence no mention of it in my response to the OP. i recognize that punishment could mean some very different things in a purely BDSM context than in a more lifestyle D/s or M/s one. and i certainly don't consider my way of life as something holy everyone should subscribe to (ha)...this is really an issue of semantics. words have definitions, they cannot just be random sounds and syllables tossed about. if you enjoy being firmly spanked because you "forgot" your PYL's rule about never wearing panties, that's awesome for you, but to call that punishment would just be incorrect.

and if anything Cattypuss, i envy those who are able to experience physical pleasure in so many things. that will never be me and that's a bummer at times.

 

[Netzach]

Maybe the answer is to "reward" her for good behavior by spanking her but this seems to be contrary to the whole idea of spanking for punishment and she wouldn't want to be spanked hard enough to be a real punishment that would be strong enough to actually discourage the behavior she had engaged in. Somehow I find myself between a rock and a hard place.
Any ideas?

YES, this is a brilliant idea, who the hell cares what some hack wrote into reality. If it's a POSITIVE stimulus, treat it as such.

I know a lot of people subscribe to the "two kinds of spanking" theory, but I'm not a fan. Our brains are not as sophisticated in the back half to completely rewire and reprocess a sensation like that, even if we're working like mad with contexts - so I think you end up softening the unpleasantness OR making the pleasurable less so when you do this.

Positive reinforcement is a great way to get results, but RANDOM REWARD is the best of all. Look at the reward dynamics in video games.

If you're a sadist, emotionally, randomize your punishments. Not too much, you don't want to become a textbook abuser, but a little evil in your technique IF your partner is of the right type, can work wonders.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I'm in kind of a quandry with my wife. I have spanked or "punished" her before on occasion and she has done it to me also. It is more play related than actual punishment. Neither one of us has done it for a while. She recently read "Fifty Shades of Grey" and it has got her thinking about it again for herself. I haven't done it with her much in quite a while because I'm pretty sure she wants me to spank her as a punishment for something, such as spending too much money. That is my quandry. I don't really want her to spend too much money or engage in other similar types of behaviors that I don't really want her to and if I spank her for it, it would actually encourage her to engage in those types of behaviors more and more so that she can get "punished". So, I have basically been avoiding going down this road and really don't know what to do. Maybe the answer is to "reward" her for good behavior by spanking her but this seems to be contrary to the whole idea of spanking for punishment and she wouldn't want to be spanked hard enough to be a real punishment that would be strong enough to actually discourage the behavior she had engaged in. Somehow I find myself between a rock and a hard place.
Any ideas?

Show her the picture I posted above.



And if it comes to that, tell her that expecting you to punish her for adult transgressions (Like spending too much money) is, actually abusive towards you. The punishment for spending too much money is not having that money to spend later. If what she bought as good enough to make up for that-- and it often is-- then getting spanked won't make any difference at all. You're not her Jiminy Cricket.

If she wants to be spanked for catharsis, that's a different thing, and you need her to understand that it's hard for YOU to hurt her that much. Tops can have limits too.

 

[missgiter]

I've searched the forum and I'm not finding an answer to my question which is basically, What is the appeal of giving punishment?

It's really different for all people. There's the 'funishment' per se, which is just some erotic form of whatever that one/both parties find pleasurable. Then there are dynamics in a D/s relationship where it's used as such - a punishment. Which isn't meant to be appealing, but meant to teach. And -- it's their consenting choice to enter into such a relationship, and while they may not enjoy the punishment, they know why it's happening and the cause of it, etc. It's the entire -relationship- that they are finding appealing.

I'm in kind of a quandry with my wife. I have spanked or "punished" her before on occasion and she has done it to me also. It is more play related than actual punishment. Neither one of us has done it for a while. She recently read "Fifty Shades of Grey" and it has got her thinking about it again for herself. I haven't done it with her much in quite a while because I'm pretty sure she wants me to spank her as a punishment for something, such as spending too much money. That is my quandry. I don't really want her to spend too much money or engage in other similar types of behaviors that I don't really want her to and if I spank her for it, it would actually encourage her to engage in those types of behaviors more and more so that she can get "punished". So, I have basically been avoiding going down this road and really don't know what to do. Maybe the answer is to "reward" her for good behavior by spanking her but this seems to be contrary to the whole idea of spanking for punishment and she wouldn't want to be spanked hard enough to be a real punishment that would be strong enough to actually discourage the behavior she had engaged in. Somehow I find myself between a rock and a hard place.
Any ideas?

Perhaps don't punish her for spending too much money. Find some random thing in the house you aren't pleased with and spank her for that? Find a dirty fork or something! Disagree with what she's wearing... you don't have to look for any huge reasons to spank her - especially if you are doing it more for fun than corrective behavior. Give her a list of things to do that you know she can't complete with an innuendo of what will happen if she doesn't. Good luck and have fun