Form Poem Challenge: Villanelle

[PandoraGlitters]

OK UYS, it's on! Let's have a little form in the house. Poets, my challenge to you for July is to compose a villanelle. How do I do that, you may ask? Well, check out this little entry from Tzara's Thread of Forms for more information, and you'll be all set. Let the poeming begin!

 

[PandoraGlitters]

Summer Garden

Nasturtium blooms along low vines.
Resist the urge to duck. They duck, too.
Nasturtium blooms in you, defines

the photogenic dinners. Native wines
enshrine my nighttime talks with you.
Nastertium blooms in me; wound vines

fast knees, our fingers. Winds. Unwinds.
We wake to waterlily and bamboo. Bloom
in every way that word defines.

On new bamboo, nasturtium climbs
the hollow rod to tip, sips dew
from tender roots to strong, grown vines.

Morning panes cast bright designs
on us. Resist the call, undo
the rising day as yesterday defined

and cling with me this day to signs
that we can build arbors anew
to better anchor these young vines.
No roof stays rain. No fence defines.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

whooooooot ! marks place

 

[Tzara]

Villanelle on Cartesian Dualism

Most lovers kiss but we cannot,
Because we live a world apart.
The only way we kiss is thought.

For some, this works. The Brownings caught
Each other through poetic art.
But lovers kiss. That we cannot

Romanticizes speech. It’s fraught
With shrill confessions of the heart—
The only way to kiss is thought!!

Young Werther, weepily distraught,
Would frame his pain as verse, impart
All lovers kiss, yet we cannot

Then kill himself by pistol shot.
We’re too mature to think that smart,
The only way. A kiss is thought,

Although a touch I’ve truly sought,
Mere cogitatio for Descartes.
Most lovers kiss? So we can, not
The only kiss is kiss unthought.

 

[Desejo]

Une Vilaine Villanelle

I comply for the sake of convention
I suppose my soul can wait
just ignore my sigh of dissension

There can be no joy without tension
That is the joke of fate
I comply for the sake of convention

All rules exist to divert attention
to limit existential debate, but
just ignore my sigh of dissension

I prefer indulgence to prevention
Yup, I’m a bona fide primate
I comply for the sake of convention

Though I do think you fail to mention
The ease with which we relate
just ignore my sigh of dissension

You say you prefer suspension
and there is no chance that will abate
I comply for the sake of convention
I suppose my soul can wait

P.S. Good lord that was painful to write and worse to read. This is going to take some practice....

 

[Angeline]

I comply for the sake of convention
I suppose my soul can wait
just ignore my sigh of dissension

There can be no joy without tension
That is the joke of fate
I comply for the sake of convention

All rules exist to divert attention
to limit existential debate, but
just ignore my sigh of dissension

I prefer indulgence to prevention
Yup, I’m a bona fide primate
I comply for the sake of convention

Though I do think you fail to mention
The ease with which we relate
just ignore my sigh of dissension

You say you prefer suspension
and there is no chance that will abate
I comply for the sake of convention
I suppose my soul can wait

P.S. Good lord that was painful to write and worse to read. This is going to take some practice....

Well for what it's worth, I like when villanelles sound conversational as I feel it's a good way to get around all the rhymey-refraininess. I started writing one and immediately hated it (the form, not so much what I was writing) and just stopped. For some reason villanelles always sound more forced to me than terzanelles. God knows why.

 

[PandoraGlitters]

They are tricky things to be sure. I think yours came out fine, Desejo, and Tzara you did not disappoint. You've written two in the last week, right? You do make it look easy.

 

[Tzara]

For some reason villanelles always sound more forced to me than terzanelles. God knows why.

Perhaps because there are only two rhymes in the poem. In a terzie, the rhyme is constantly changing, which varies the line-ending sound. In a villanelle, you especially get hammered by the A rhyme (twelve of the nineteen lines end in the same sound). On top of that, the rhyme is often kind of simple, so the poet won't run out of words--finding seven different words that rhyme and are workable into a particular poem's structure isn't all that easy.

I know I always check rhymezone.com before I try and compose a villanelle to make sure I am not choosing end-words that leave me painted in a corner.

 

[Tzara]

They are tricky things to be sure. I think yours came out fine, Desejo, and Tzara you did not disappoint. You've written two in the last week, right? You do make it look easy.

I liked Desejo's example. Making the A rhyme feminine softens the repetitive quality of it, I think.

Did I write another one this week? I don't remember, but I quite often write and forget poems.

I like the villanelle. As I think I've said before, I find it easier to write than a terzanelle. Angie is the other way around. I also happen to like both the repetition of the same two lines and the repetitive sound of a villanelle. The biggest problem I have with my own is that I tend to be too straightforwardly iambic with the meter and that just contributes to the sing-songiness of the poem.

But what the hey. I like composing them.

 

[Tzara]

Silly Villanelle, Written As If
the Poet Was Tripping Acid
—With apologies to Desejo, for stealing her line

Indulging you would be a rare delight,
Especially on your overwrought divan—
But one, I think, I’d likely overwrite,

If anything because I’d feel uptight.
(It’s not like you are naming me your man,
Indulgent you.) Woof! Be a rare delight,

To me, to Sam, or anybody’s sight.
Wear a kimono, as if you were Japan,
A country then I’d likely overwrite

With katakana praising how you might
Merge with a foreign country. Kazakhstan?
Indulging you would still be rare delight.

I know. I said that once before. Alright,
It’s very clear I’m not a leading man,
But one I think that might survive rewrite,

To leastways die reel eight in some knife fight.
I’m just some guy from Washington, Spokane—
Someone who life quite often overwrites.
Indulging you would be a rare delight.

 

[Angeline]

Perhaps because there are only two rhymes in the poem. In a terzie, the rhyme is constantly changing, which varies the line-ending sound. In a villanelle, you especially get hammered by the A rhyme (twelve of the nineteen lines end in the same sound). On top of that, the rhyme is often kind of simple, so the poet won't run out of words--finding seven different words that rhyme and are workable into a particular poem's structure isn't all that easy.

I know I always check rhymezone.com before I try and compose a villanelle to make sure I am not choosing end-words that leave me painted in a corner.

Yes, of course that's it. I have no problem with rhyming lists and the thesaurus, a slang dictionary, babelfish, anything. I'll use them all without a minute's hesitation: they are part of the toolkit. But certain forms, for me, the end never seems to justify the means. I never say never, but I think I need to be moved by a theme before I can tackle the form.

 

[PandoraGlitters]

I never say never, but I think I need to be moved by a theme before I can tackle the form.

I find the form itself suggests themes. For me, sestinas suggest a sort of skinning of the subject, turning it inside out. Villanelles and triolets are more about repetition which suggests activities or feelings that have to do with repetition. The villanelle I wrote was about waking with a lover. Certainly this is a feeling welcome enough to want to repeat--often. Perhaps this circumstance drew me to the form.

 

[Angeline]

I find the form itself suggests themes. For me, sestinas suggest a sort of skinning of the subject, turning it inside out. Villanelles and triolets are more about repetition which suggests activities or feelings that have to do with repetition. The villanelle I wrote was about waking with a lover. Certainly this is a feeling welcome enough to want to repeat--often. Perhaps this circumstance drew me to the form.

Ok, I hear you, but what I'm saying is that it doesn't suggest themes to me--either that or I find myself compelled to write in a way inconsistent with my own writer's voice and the result is subpar for me. There are some lovely poems in this thread and we each have our own approach and way at a form. I just don't feel the villanelle these days. And I have learned more recently to write only when I have something to say. That's a change for me and one that is yielding good results for now.

 

[PandoraGlitters]

I have learned more recently to write only when I have something to say. That's a change for me and one that is yielding good results for now.

I get that. Yay good results.

 

[Tzara]

Ok, I hear you, but what I'm saying is that it doesn't suggest themes to me--either that or I find myself compelled to write in a way inconsistent with my own writer's voice and the result is subpar for me. There are some lovely poems in this thread and we each have our own approach and way at a form. I just don't feel the villanelle these days. And I have learned more recently to write only when I have something to say. That's a change for me and one that is yielding good results for now.

Even among poets who like or at least tolerate writing form, not all forms are equally attractive. I find the sestina uninspiring, for example. And that's conceptually, not just in practice--I don't see any good reason to base a form on six words repeated in a very specific pattern.

That's silly, of course, because all forms are based on some arbitrary rules and probably none of them make particular sense, or are somehow integral to producing a good poem. I've actually read a sestina I rather liked quite recently (by Dana Gioia) and have thought about trying to write one just for exercise (his poem kind of mocks the form by talking about how they tend to be written in poetry workshops more or less exclusively, though obviously as a sestina itself, that ends up being a kind of ironic metacomment).

I know why I like certain forms (e.g., the Onegin stanza), have some idea why I dislike or feel uncomfortable with certain forms (sestina, most Asian forms), but I don't quite understand why I happen to like the villanelle. I think it's that I like the sound of it, but I'm not sure.

 

[greenmountaineer]

Before I Commanded the Sea

Oh how the millstream in Bosham has swollen.
Note the slime, skald, by means of your pen
where Emma, my lovely daughter, has fallen.

Fashion me a Caedmon's hymn for a solemn
runestone masons will carve for me then.
Oh how the millstream in Bosham has swollen.

April floods render the wheat fields their golden
hair come August as hers might have been.
Say it as if the harvest moon were falling.

Nevermore will I visit Isle of Wolin
wherein Thorkell disciplines my men
to govern the seas and never break column.

Station my coterie where the tides roll in
so that all hear my foolish command.
I might as well say bees took the king's pollen.

Or my little drowned flower has been stolen,
and hang old Browntooth, my hanging man.
Oh how the millstream in Bosham has swollen
where Emma, my lovely daughter, has fallen.

 

[Angeline]

I get that. Yay good results.

Yeah, I knew you would. And tomorrow I might decide I actually want to write a certain form and then I would.

Years ago I asked Senna Jawa why he wasn't writing at that time and he said "I have nothing to say now." At the time I thought, well make yourself say whatever and see what comes of it, but I have changed my thinking on that. I feel like I need a certain recharging time to have things I want to say. I could write any poem (and probably most forms) and maybe even use a variety of tricks to come up with a halfway decent poem. I just don't like doing that anymore. But that is my poetry journey, and one thing I have learned for sure is that I cannot predict where it will take me!

 

[Tzara]

This

Oh how the millstream in Bosham has swollen...

is simply gorgeous. Sonically, for me anyway, damn close to perfect. The use of alternating feminine and masculine rhyme, the use of accentual meter is as good as I've ever seen. And I don't mean just here.

The one part that sounds slightly off to me is

Or my little drowned flower has been stolen,
and hang Olof Browntooth, my hangman.​

both of which sound as trimeter to me, rather than tetrameter. That probably is just my ear being off.

A couple questions, though. Wasn't Emma Cnut's (second) wife, rather than daughter? Doesn't matter, of course. I'm just curious. And are you using accentual verse because of the Nordic sagas? That seems really fitting, given the subject.

Just a fabulous poem, gm. I know I keep saying this, but I think this is your best one yet.

 

[PandoraGlitters]

Beautiful work, Greenmountaineer. Now I know quite a lot more about Canute the Great. I like how your works lead me to seek out sources and ponder.

 

[CharleyH]

I really adore the concept of a form challenge, so thanks Pandora.

Short or long, I don't find them easy to write, yet I appreciate the brevity and precision that any form elicits. I've recently been playing around with forms, which isn't exactly new to me, but I've not done so (seriously) in a very, very long time. I'm loving my renewed enthusiasm, discovery, and deeper appreciation toward each new form I dabble with, and I love how writing form forces you to think in new ways as a writer, but it certainly puts one to the test.

The Villanelle is particularly tricky (although as an aside to Ang: I thought you loved these beasts. In fact, I thought you were the guru, but I can see from your comments that I got that totally wrong - lol ). I've really enjoyed all the ones on this thread so far.

In the discussion about form suggesting themes, I totally get where Ang is coming from, but I agree Pandora. The repetitive nature of the Villanelle sends my mind reeling with a thousand different ideas, albeit not so much about activities and feelings that have to do with repetition, as you enjoy. In fact, for some reason, despite the beauteous, joyful and loving flavour of your poem, which is very nicely done btw, the Villanelle elicits more seedy and depressing themes for me (and I'm not a very dark person, usually).

For me, the form of the Villanelle reminds me of (just some open thoughts)
- any seedy street or Red Light district in the world, where every 10 steps you pass glittery neon signs flashing 'live girls nude' contrasted by protesters outside lewd theatres with their "Jesus dies on the cross to save you" signs
- old age homes where practically everyone has short-term memory loss and despite the sadness of the repetition, everyone seems to understand everyone else, except the loved ones visiting
- rock stars singing the same old songs for fans after 30 plus years
- a mothers lament or lullaby to a child
- history repeating itself
- being a regular at a local restaurant
- a really dull conversation.

lol

There is plenty of fodder for the form, but finding the motivating idea and the right words in the right way is an exhausting task.

Nevertheless, I love this. I will try as hard as I can to come up with something for this challenge between now and Monday, but we have an overseas guest all next week and we might be going south with her the week after.

 

[PandoraGlitters]

For me, the form of the Villanelle reminds me of (just some open thoughts)
- any seedy street or Red Light district in the world, where every 10 steps you pass glittery neon signs flashing 'live girls nude' contrasted by protesters outside lewd theatres with their "Jesus dies on the cross to save you" signs
- old age homes where practically everyone has short-term memory loss and despite the sadness of the repetition, everyone seems to understand everyone else, except the loved ones visiting
- rock stars singing the same old songs for fans after 30 plus years
- a mothers lament or lullaby to a child
- history repeating itself
- being a regular at a local restaurant
- a really dull conversation

I want to read each of these poems! Get to work, Charley! Well after your guests leave, of course.

 

[CharleyH]

I want to read each of these poems! Get to work, Charley! Well after your guests leave, of course.

LOL

Hey, I forgot to ask this. And it goes out to all poets here:

Just trying to wrap my mind around the form, so excuse my naive ask, but...

While rhyme is important in the Villanelle, and while I've read that they are usually written in pentameter or tetrameter, does the metre need to be beated, for example, by iambs or anapests, or can one write a Villanelle by syllabic-count only?

If so, what is you opinion on the poem that adheres to a specific type of meter like iamb vs. the poem that goes by syllable count?

 

[PandoraGlitters]

CharleyH,

I do neither. In the villanelle, I tend to just count strong beats with a loose adherence to the foot. I am certain people do it all of those ways though with success. Good question.

D.

 

[greenmountaineer]

This
is simply gorgeous. Sonically, for me anyway, damn close to perfect. The use of alternating feminine and masculine rhyme, the use of accentual meter is as good as I've ever seen. And I don't mean just here.

The one part that sounds slightly off to me is

Or my little drowned flower has been stolen,
and hang Olof Browntooth, my hangman.​

both of which sound as trimeter to me, rather than tetrameter. That probably is just my ear being off.

A couple questions, though. Wasn't Emma Cnut's (second) wife, rather than daughter? Doesn't matter, of course. I'm just curious. And are you using accentual verse because of the Nordic sagas? That seems really fitting, given the subject.

Just a fabulous poem, gm. I know I keep saying this, but I think this is your best one yet.

Thanks, Tzara.

I am not an expert on Canute the Great. Fortunately perhaps few are. Apparently, there aren't many scholastic sources of information and much is considered myth passed down through oral traditions. At least that's what I read in a couple of websites. One such source speculated the name of Canute's daughter was Emma. Of course, it's the internet, so maybe my source was confusing daughter and wife, and I merely compounded the error. I claim poetic license if that's the case because I like the name.

I struggled with line 17. I wanted to pack absurdity in it, thus hanging the king's hangman. Unfortunately, "hangman," coming just before a period to end the sentence sounds like a spondee IMO. I've edited the post, if that makes any difference.

There was no intention of accentual verse. Of the two villanelles that seem to be most quoted, "Do Not Go Gentle Into That Good Night" by Thomas and "One Art" by Bishop, I prefer the latter because she alternates feminine and masculine endings, which I think is more pleasing to the ear.

PS: "Bosham," I read, is pronounced "Bozzum," which is also more pleasing to the ear to me.

 

[greenmountaineer]

Beautiful work, Greenmountaineer. Now I know quite a lot more about Canute the Great. I like how your works lead me to seek out sources and ponder.

Thank you, Dora. I like using iconic figures of history. It's a shortcut because the reader already has an image in his or her mind. The downside is when it becomes an excuse not to work hard on the craft that should follow.