I should take my own advice...

[PennLady]

I know I always counsel people against reading too much into scores and feedback. It's a big pond, I say, with many anonymous fish commenting. Both with usernames and not.

Still I have to say I was taken back by the reaction to the ending of R&B. (I am not asking anyone to read it, or comment; I'm just kind of musing.) It's not been mean or vitriolic (it's not like it's LW, after all ). But I have been deluged with requests for more chapters or an epilogue.

I'm flattered that people enjoyed the story and characters, but part of me is flummoxed (and I know I shouldn't be) about the ... inability? unwillingness? of readers to accept an ending that is not what they expected and take the one given. Do they really need it spoon fed that the main couple stayed together forever? Or that the woman and her father did not reconcile? Must every single idea you introduced be tied up with a bow?

One reader commented (not here on Lit) that he wished he hadn't read it, now that he's read and didn't like the ending. Which he didn't like because it wasn't the one he wanted (involving things that simply would not happen, given the characters).

Or, I guess I just learned again not to f*ck with romance cliches.

Sorry, just venting. Couldn't help it.

 

[Harry Leg]

I know I always counsel people against reading too much into scores and feedback. It's a big pond, I say, with many anonymous fish commenting. Both with usernames and not.

Still I have to say I was taken back by the reaction to the ending of R&B. (I am not asking anyone to read it, or comment; I'm just kind of musing.) It's not been mean or vitriolic (it's not like it's LW, after all ). But I have been deluged with requests for more chapters or an epilogue.

I'm flattered that people enjoyed the story and characters, but part of me is flummoxed (and I know I shouldn't be) about the ... inability? unwillingness? of readers to accept an ending that is not what they expected and take the one given. Do they really need it spoon fed that the main couple stayed together forever? Or that the woman and her father did not reconcile? Must every single idea you introduced be tied up with a bow?

One reader commented (not here on Lit) that he wished he hadn't read it, now that he's read and didn't like the ending. Which he didn't like because it wasn't the one he wanted (involving things that simply would not happen, given the characters).

Or, I guess I just learned again not to f*ck with romance cliches.

Sorry, just venting. Couldn't help it.

I read it and I liked it very much. Even the ending

 

[TxRad]

People do get attached to characters and always want the happy ending.

But as writers, we have to take the story where it goes. That sometimes does not set well with the reader.

So our only alternative is to write for ourselves.

 

[desertslave]

Stella was eminently quotable in another thread somewhere a few days ago: Never underestimate the obtuseness of your readership.

 

[oggbashan]

I am puzzled by the repeated PCs on my story Nylon Overall.

Anonymous appears to be writing his own RL story in PCs...

 

[bashfullyshameless]

One's measure of success is all relative. There are stories better than mine on this site with lower scores, and yet I grumble and fume (not for long, mind you) when I see one of mine go down even by .02 points when I know damn well that could be a troll, or a legitimate "I thought it was okay but not awesome," or it could be someone trying to help the score of their own favorite story... and I know I should just be grateful for the positive reception I've had (and continue to have), but even the little hits bug me.

Comments are often frustrating. You have to remember that a lot of folks are just plain inarticulate in writing, but it doesn't mean they're dumb. Most folks don't really stop to analyze what they're writing to see if it really means what they mean to say. If they did, they'd probably be writers. But you can easily tell a friendly comment from one that is mean-spirited.

As for things not going the way readers want them to go... in the end, it's your story. They want things to go differently, they should start writing their own. It's one of the reasons I write mine.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

The Reader aint usually right buts he always the Reader.

I dont know why writers gotta always think theyre writing for the Ages when what theyre doing is providing Readers with lil oases in an ocean of quiet blandness.

Dont buy any of this I WRITE FOR MOI! bullshit. You write for Readers, and dont forget it.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

One's measure of success is all relative. There are stories better than mine on this site with lower scores, and yet I grumble and fume (not for long, mind you) when I see one of mine go down even by .02 points when I know damn well that could be a troll, or a legitimate "I thought it was okay but not awesome," or it could be someone trying to help the score of their own favorite story... and I know I should just be grateful for the positive reception I've had (and continue to have), but even the little hits bug me.

Comments are often frustrating. You have to remember that a lot of folks are just plain inarticulate in writing, but it doesn't mean they're dumb. Most folks don't really stop to analyze what they're writing to see if it really means what they mean to say. If they did, they'd probably be writers. But you can easily tell a friendly comment from one that is mean-spirited.

As for things not going the way readers want them to go... in the end, it's your story. They want things to go differently, they should start writing their own. It's one of the reasons I write mine.

Laurel oughta charge a fee to leave comments and scores. Trolls and flatterers and pals and moms would drop off.

 

[lovecraft68]

Readers never get enough of a good thing.

A great story becomes an addiction. Haven't you ever read a series or a novel and even if the ending was to your liking, you played "well what if" or "well they could have...." and you wished it would be written?

My SWB series ran for 18 months and went 51 installments that averaged 5/6 lit pages a chapter. At the end (and it had a definitive ending most seemed happy with) I kept getting-and am astill getting- well next they should adopt a child together, or you should bring Alex back for another fight or what if....

It was annoying as I felt they were telling me I somehow hadn't done enough, but then I realized something that I want to impart on you.

It means you succeeded in telling a great story. If your story was weak and your characters uninteresting, your writing shoddy, they wouldn't care less if it ended.

But yours are asking for more! They want more because R&B left its mark your mark upon them.

Odds are they've talked about this story with others, they've gone to bed thinking of these people as if they were real.

Take it for what it is PL, a very high form of flattery.

 

[lovecraft68]

You know I'll add real quick that it would never be worth it, to try to push for more. If you feel you told your tale, let it lie.

Because if you force it and can;t recapture the magic, then the fans get a case of "careful what they wished for" and they are now pissed. And those that did not want more are now upset.

Case in point for me. I loved the 1st/2nd Thomas Covenant series. Even though 2 had a fantastic and fitting ending I hungered for more. I kept wondering could he bring him back?

A couple of years ago I was in the now dead borders and thrilled to see a third Thomas Covenant series.

I was so excited I forked over $25 for the hardcover.

The third book is now out and sadly I won;t buy it, the series is nothing but a cash cow. A desperate throwing together of loose ends and weak characters to force another story.

Now in my mind it ended back at White Gold Wielder.

So if you feel you are truly done, let it be.

 

[PennLady]

I read it and I liked it very much. Even the ending

Thank you, Harry. That makes two of us. Haha, no, I kid. Maybe three.

But as writers, we have to take the story where it goes. That sometimes does not set well with the reader.

As I have now been informed. Repeatedly. By many comments, both anon and not.

Stella was eminently quotable in another thread somewhere a few days ago: Never underestimate the obtuseness of your readership.

Also, never underestimate the apparent innate need of the romance audience for the cliche HEA. I have them say I love you, they're going to move in together, the band is getting bigger -- but it's not enough without the ring and setting things right with the dad. Sigh.

Comments are often frustrating. You have to remember that a lot of folks are just plain inarticulate in writing, but it doesn't mean they're dumb. Most folks don't really stop to analyze what they're writing to see if it really means what they mean to say. If they did, they'd probably be writers. But you can easily tell a friendly comment from one that is mean-spirited.

Oh, yes, none have been mean-spirited, or mean. (Well, there's this one guy on Facebook who's on the edge; in our "discussion," he included the comment "#epicfailure." gee, thanks.) It is frustrating, because it does feel like the readers want you to spoon-feed them when I think they can easily imagine those further endings for themselves.

Most of the comments are of the "this was great, but..." nature, which is something of a double-edged sword. If it's "great," why is there a but? On the other hand, it's nice that they think so highly of it to be bothered by things.

As for things not going the way readers want them to go... in the end, it's your story. They want things to go differently, they should start writing their own. It's one of the reasons I write mine.

At times, it has been all I can do not to say that. Well, I'm trying not to say it in a snarky way. It may make it into a blog post. And my sf prof in college gave that same advice. Don't like it? Write what you want to see.

 

[PennLady]

But yours are asking for more! They want more because R&B left its mark your mark upon them.

Odds are they've talked about this story with others, they've gone to bed thinking of these people as if they were real.

Take it for what it is PL, a very high form of flattery.

These are good points, and I'm trying to keep them in mind. And as I said, I'm flattered. Unfortunately, many of the comments seem to say "you did it wrong." Well, no, I didn't.

These comments rival and surpass (in quantity if nothing else) the comments I got on another story, "Nothing Gets Through." And a lot of it is, I didn't end either story the way a more traditional romance writer might have. That apparently bugs them.

 

[Stella_Omega]

IMO, yes-- if you've highlighted an element during the course of a story, the element should be dealt with one way or another before the end.

This doesn't mean that the daughter and father should reconcile, for instance.

but there could be acknowledgement of the fact that those loose ends aren't going to tie up, and that's unsatisfying to the characters-- but they will make the best of it (and therefore so will the readers)

or something like that...

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Let me say it a different way.

In 1958 my old man started his own company, and he wanted it to stay small and easy to run. Didnt happen. The company produced what customers wanted, and word got around. At the end, at Disney World, he sold the company, to get off the escalator he hated.

I think it was Dickens whom readers forced to change the ending of Great Expectations.

 

[PennLady]

IMO, yes-- if you've highlighted an element during the course of a story, the element should be dealt with one way or another before the end.

This doesn't mean that the daughter and father should reconcile, for instance.

but there could be acknowledgement of the fact that those loose ends aren't going to tie up, and that's unsatisfying to the characters-- but they will make the best of it (and therefore so will the readers)

or something like that...

It was dealt with and pretty much as you describe. However, what every reader who commented on it wanted was a reconciliation, which just wasn't going to happen.

One guy outlined what he wanted to happen at the end, which was just so far out of kilter with the characters and story line that there was no way I could "win" that situation.

 

[Stella_Omega]

It was dealt with and pretty much as you describe. However, what every reader who commented on it wanted was a reconciliation, which just wasn't going to happen.

One guy outlined what he wanted to happen at the end, which was just so far out of kilter with the characters and story line that there was no way I could "win" that situation.

heh-- this sort of dissatisfaction is one of the major reasons why people write fanfic.

 

[PennLady]

heh-- this sort of dissatisfaction is one of the major reasons why people write fanfic.

Oh I doubt anyone would go that far with this story. They seem to prefer telling me to "do it right." Pffffft.

 

[MagicaPractica]

Framing it another way, perhaps it's a win because they were so wrapped up in your characters that those people came to life in their minds.

 

[PennLady]

Framing it another way, perhaps it's a win because they were so wrapped up in your characters that those people came to life in their minds.

I am trying to think of it that way, really, but it's hard when the sentiment seems less "I love your characters and want to see them again" and more "You didn't do what I wanted! Wah! Do it right!"

 

[Harry Leg]

I am trying to think of it that way, really, but it's hard when the sentiment seems less "I love your characters and want to see them again" and more "You didn't do what I wanted! Wah! Do it right!"

Even the latter sentiment can be interpreted to mean that your readers were fully and emotionally invested with your characters to the degree that it evoked strong feelings when said characters didnt end up how they had hoped.

I think it is a compliment. You should take it as such.

 

[TxRad]

I had a story where no one but me and the characters liked the ending. I ended up putting a comment up, which I very seldom do.

It read:

If you have a problem with the ending to this story please go talk to the characters in it. They went where they had to go. I'm just the typist.

I never had another complaint from the readers.

 

[mynameisben]

I know I always counsel people against reading too much into scores and feedback. It's a big pond, I say, with many anonymous fish commenting. Both with usernames and not.

Still I have to say I was taken back by the reaction to the ending of R&B. (I am not asking anyone to read it, or comment; I'm just kind of musing.) It's not been mean or vitriolic (it's not like it's LW, after all ). But I have been deluged with requests for more chapters or an epilogue.

I'm flattered that people enjoyed the story and characters, but part of me is flummoxed (and I know I shouldn't be) about the ... inability? unwillingness? of readers to accept an ending that is not what they expected and take the one given. Do they really need it spoon fed that the main couple stayed together forever? Or that the woman and her father did not reconcile? Must every single idea you introduced be tied up with a bow?

One reader commented (not here on Lit) that he wished he hadn't read it, now that he's read and didn't like the ending. Which he didn't like because it wasn't the one he wanted (involving things that simply would not happen, given the characters).

Or, I guess I just learned again not to f*ck with romance cliches.

Sorry, just venting. Couldn't help it.

While I sympathize with your frustrations, I can't hep but think your conclusion was something of a letdown. As a wrap-it-all-up conclusion, I found your "learning not to f*ck with romance cliches" fell a little short of my expectations.

At the very least, I wanted to see a u instead of an asterisk. The diacritical mark for the e in cliché would have been a nice touch too, but whatever.

Maybe you could post a revision?

 

[PennLady]

Even the latter sentiment can be interpreted to mean that your readers were fully and emotionally invested with your characters to the degree that it evoked strong feelings when said characters didnt end up how they had hoped.

I think it is a compliment. You should take it as such.

Generally, I am doing that. I figure I've done something right if people are that riled up. And some have said, it's not so much that they want it to go on as they will "miss" the characters. And that's fine. And a few have said they like the ending, including the specific elements others have complained about.

However, as I said, certain comments make it more difficult.

 

[PennLady]

I had a story where no one but me and the characters liked the ending. I ended up putting a comment up, which I very seldom do.

It read:

If you have a problem with the ending to this story please go talk to the characters in it. They went where they had to go. I'm just the typist.

I never had another complaint from the readers.

LOL Can I borrow that?

 

[PennLady]

While I sympathize with your frustrations, I can't hep but think your conclusion was something of a letdown. As a wrap-it-all-up conclusion, I found your "learning not to f*ck with romance cliches" fell a little short of my expectations.

At the very least, I wanted to see a u instead of an asterisk. The diacritical mark for the e in cliché would have been a nice touch too, but whatever.

Maybe you could post a revision?

How about:

Fück øff, bén. (I kid! I kid! )