One benefit of the war on drugs is...

[Peregrinator]

The Sinaloa cartel can buy a kilo of cocaine in the highlands of Colombia or Peru for around $2,000, then watch it accrue value as it makes its way to market. In Mexico, that kilo fetches more than $10,000. Jump the border to the United States, and it could sell wholesale for $30,000. Break it down into grams to distribute retail, and that same kilo sells for upward of $100,000 — more than its weight in gold. And that’s just cocaine. Alone among the Mexican cartels, Sinaloa is both diversified and vertically integrated, producing and exporting marijuana, heroin and methamphetamine as well.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/17/m...l-makes-its-billions.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all


...it allows violent assholes to become massively wealthy.


Anyone want to guess why this is not the case with alcohol, caffeine or nicotine?

 

[islandman]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/17/m...l-makes-its-billions.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all


...it allows violent assholes to become massively wealthy.


Anyone want to guess why this is not the case with alcohol, caffeine or nicotine?

Bit of a false equivalency, don't you think?

 

[BotanyBoy]

Bit of a false equivalency, don't you think?

How so?

Capone became wealthy as all fuck when we outlawed booze....inciting massive violence and creating a multi gazzilion dollar empire of organized crime.

Tax and regulation greatly reduced those problems, just like it has with pot, coke and opiates in other nations.

What makes you think the outlawing of any substances/goods people want to buy in the US is any different?

I'll tell you right now there are a whole bunch of farmers that DON'T want it completely legal. I voted against it......

 

[Wings]

How so?

Capone became wealthy as all fuck when we outlawed booze....inciting massive violence and creating a multi gazzilion dollar empire of organized crime.

Tax and regulation greatly reduced those problems, just like it has with pot, coke and opiates in other nations?

What makes you think the outlawing of substances/good people want to buy in the US is any different?

I have no dog in this fight but Capone would have figured out a different way to make his money if it wasn't thru prohibition.

 

[killallhippies]

Bit of a false equivalency, don't you think?

not really.

 

[islandman]

not really.

There are different degrees of dangerous. Is this not evident?

 

[islandman]

How so?

Capone became wealthy as all fuck when we outlawed booze....inciting massive violence and creating a multi gazzilion dollar empire of organized crime.

Tax and regulation greatly reduced those problems, just like it has with pot, coke and opiates in other nations.

What makes you think the outlawing of any substances/goods people want to buy in the US is any different?

I'll tell you right now there are a whole bunch of farmers that DON'T want it completely legal. I voted against it......

The point isn't the outlawing of substances/goods. If it was, the average citizen would be having a hissy-fit over the lack of uranium in the marketplace.

 

[BotanyBoy]

I have no dog in this fight but Capone would have figured out a different way to make his money if it wasn't thru prohibition.

True....but the black market made by prohabition offers an unregulated opportunity for them to do whatever the fuck they want however the fuck they want.

They can use extortion, murder and torture to get their money because who's going to call the cops on them? "Hey officer he ripped me off for my crack!" it just does not happen that way.

They don't have to pay taxes or abide by any rules, because it's illegal which also drives their profits through the roof.

 

[BotanyBoy]

The point isn't the outlawing of substances/goods. If it was, the average citizen would be having a hissy-fit over the lack of uranium in the marketplace.

Uranium isn't in huge demand, no one sits around going "I got 60 bucks I really could use a nuclear warhead right now" .......millions and millions however do wish they could go drop 60 bucks on an 1/8th of top notch bud at the store for a night cap, party or just to chill and have some lulz.

It is the prohibition that creates the violent black market, it always has been and always will be.

 

[killallhippies]

There are different degrees of dangerous. Is this not evident?

from what i've seen in my life i can say that i agree with this assessment. take out the black market and i'd say alcohol is easily as destructive(if not more) as coke or heroin. hell, man, people don't die of heroin or coke withdrawal, but they can from alcohol withdrawal.

also, once you've lived with vodka tommy there aint no going back to thinking booze is no big deal. that fucker was 32 and he looked fifty five and alcohol was the only drug he took. the few times i saw him without were scary times. people shouldn't shake like that. that just aint right.

 

[islandman]

Uranium isn't in huge demand, no one sits around going "I got 60 bucks I really could use a nuclear warhead right now" .......millions and millions however do wish they could go drop 60 bucks on an 1/8th of top notch bud at the store for a night cap, party or just to chill and have some lulz.

It is the prohibition that creates the violent black market, it always has been and always will be.

I agree that bud shouldn't be treated any different than cigs. But the rest of them? No shades of grey in your world?

As for your argument, it's post hoc ergo propter hoc. About as sound as a wet napkin.

 

[islandman]

from what i've seen in my life i can say that i agree with this assessment. take out the black market and i'd say alcohol is easily as destructive(if not more) as coke or heroin. hell, man, people don't die of heroin or coke withdrawal, but they can from alcohol withdrawal.

also, once you've lived with vodka tommy there aint no going back to thinking booze is no big deal. that fucker was 32 and he looked fifty five and alcohol was the only drug he took. the few times i saw him without were scary times. people shouldn't shake like that. that just aint right.

If a substance can be abused, I trust that people will abuse it.

From my perspective, injecting crap into your veins on a once in a while basis is substantially more harmful to the rest of society than getting drunk till you puke, not to mention the dangers of sharing needles versus bottles.

That's not to say that I view alcohol to be safe. It's akin to a revolver versus a machine gun. Neither will go away, so I opt for the former. The odds are better.

 

[BotanyBoy]

from what i've seen in my life i can say that i agree with this assessment. take out the black market and i'd say alcohol is easily as destructive(if not more) as coke or heroin. hell, man, people don't die of heroin or coke withdrawal, but they can from alcohol withdrawal.

Alcohol is pure poison man....shit is horrid no doubt. But you gotta admit, there isn't nearly the violence and corruption surrounding it that there was in 20's. Also the alcohol is safer as it's not being brewed in a bathtub and cut with formaldehyde anymore....you get a clean product when you go to a liquor store.

Here are the benefits of the war on drugs.

Billions put into the LEO/DOJ...lots of jobs.

Billions put into the private prison industry...and they want to keep it that way.

Big Pharm, textile, oil, corn, tobacco and alcohol industries get a massive competitive edge by eliminating an entire section of competition. Cannabis is by far one of the most versatile and useful crops out there...has been for thousands of years.

That's a lot of lobbying....billions spent on congress to keep a plant illegal because it's all about the money. Public safety is just the scape goat they use to justify their actions.

 

[BotanyBoy]

I agree that bud shouldn't be treated any different than cigs. But the rest of them? No shades of grey in your world?

As for your argument, it's post hoc ergo propter hoc. About as sound as a wet napkin.

All the other drugs are but a small fraction....over 90% of the war on drugs is against pot.

But as far as coke, meth and opiates go imprisonment has been COMPLETELY ineffective. A HS kid can score an 8 ball way easier than a pack of ciggs...

Over the past 40 years teen drug abuse has gone up as well as use in general. The prohibition has had the opposite effect of it's intent, and the harder we fight it the worse it has gotten....time to re-think our policy.

Maybe treatment...maybe just giving the people the choice of what they do with their bodies back to them idk the right answer but prohibitions failure is obvious.

My argument may be a wet napkin but it's the truth....more people want to get fucked up and party than want to build home made nukes.

 

[1sickbastard]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/17/m...l-makes-its-billions.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all


...it allows violent assholes to become massively wealthy.


Anyone want to guess why this is not the case with alcohol, caffeine or nicotine?

It was with alcohol. Prohibition didna work out so well.

Bit of a false equivalency, don't you think?

With caffeine, yes.
Prohibition of tobacco has never been tried, but I'll wager the results would be similar.
Tobacco and Alcohol are legal, yet it's more difficult for underaged kids to get either of those than it is for them to get illegal drugs.

 

[KingOrfeo]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/17/m...l-makes-its-billions.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all


...it allows violent assholes to become massively wealthy.


Anyone want to guess why this is not the case with alcohol, caffeine or nicotine?

Because it is possible for assholes to get massively wealthy off those things by nonviolent means.

 

[islandman]

Tobacco and Alcohol are legal, yet it's more difficult for underaged kids to get either of those than it is for them to get illegal drugs.

Last I checked, kids weren't the only ones smoking, drinking and getting high.

 

[koalabear]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/17/m...l-makes-its-billions.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all


...it allows violent assholes to become massively wealthy.


Anyone want to guess why this is not the case with alcohol, caffeine or nicotine?

Sin taxes.

 

[CHNOPS]

Because it is possible for assholes to get massively wealthy off those things by nonviolent means.

^^^^^

Finally.

OP was flawed not because of the substances, but because of the conclusion. Plenty of people getting rich from the 'legal' drugs. The only difference is the business model.

 

[about_average]

From my perspective, injecting crap into your veins on a once in a while basis is substantially more harmful to the rest of society than getting drunk till you puke

Explain why legal injection of drugs occasionally by someone would be harmful to society.

not to mention the dangers of sharing needles

Why do you think people share needles?

 

[richard_daily]

The feds have to make sure that they can make at least as much from taxes on currently illicit substances as they do now. They also lose some of the population control tactics if they legalize all drugs...

The seed has been planted, but it will be a long time coming before it happens. It will happen in South America before it happens here.

 

[KingOrfeo]

They also lose some of the population control tactics if they legalize all drugs...

"Population control"? Whatever you mean by that, it's bullshit. Drugs are not banned for the sake of holding down population growth; nor for the sake of giving the cops one more thing to bust you for.

 

[islandman]

Explain why legal injection of drugs occasionally by someone would be harmful to society.

Greater probability of collateral damage from drugs vs. alcohol. Here too, I'm playing the odds.

Why do you think people share needles?

I know why. Sharing a bottle - to my knowledge - has never led to the acquisition of a transmittable disease.

 

[CHNOPS]

Greater probability of collateral damage from drugs vs. alcohol. Here too, I'm playing the odds.

I'm willing to bet deaths per year from drunk driving alone outnumber ALL heroin-related deaths by a long shot.

I know why. Sharing a bottle - to my knowledge - has never led to the acquisition of a transmittable disease.

That's exactly what Herpes Simplex wants you to think.

 

[islandman]

That's exactly what Herpes Simplex wants you to think.

I've never known it to kill anyone even when drunk.