Is THE Queen going senile? Queen to meet murdering fenian bastard. Cromwell was right

[hobbit.]

Sinn Fein has agreed to a historic first meeting with the Queen following a special meeting of the party.

Martin McGuinness is due to meet the Queen and shake her hand at a charity reception in Belfast next week.

The former IRA leader has been a major figure in the Irish peace process and has been deputy first minister of Northern Ireland for five years.



Oliver Cromwell was right on so many levels.

 

[deskuser]

If that is what it takes to move on and stop the killing then so be it. I'm sure that Republicans are not too chuffed either but if there's no more killing then its a good thing.

 

[oggbashan]

The Queen, and her father before her, has met many important but dubious people that you wouldn't want as house guests, nor anywhere near your children. It is part of the duty of being Head of State. Many of those met by the Queen and King George VI had been former terrorists/freedom fighters who had been implicated in or suspected of killing British troops.

Martin McGuinness is a lot better than most of the dubious ones. The peace process in Northern Ireland would not have worked without him. The peace process includes forgiveness by former enemies of each other. Forgetting? That is different. Remembering what happened is the best way to prevent it happening again.

 

[hobbit.]

Martin McGuinness is a lot better than most of the dubious ones. The peace process in Northern Ireland would not have worked without him.

it would if he had been dead by that time, his head on a pole in some dublin square.

 

[KingOrfeo]

If that is what it takes to move on and stop the killing then so be it.

Wait, hasn't the political violence in Ireland pretty much stopped already?

 

[KingOrfeo]

Sinn Fein has agreed to a historic first meeting with the Queen following a special meeting of the party.

Martin McGuinness is due to meet the Queen and shake her hand at a charity reception in Belfast next week.

The former IRA leader has been a major figure in the Irish peace process and has been deputy first minister of Northern Ireland for five years.



Oliver Cromwell was right on so many levels.

Could be worse. At least a "Fenian" is superior to an Englishman.

 

[KingOrfeo]

it would if he had been dead by that time, his head on a pole in some dublin square.

Well, that's a kind of "peace process," I guess . . .

 

[bra_man69]

http://www.livewellfitnow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/twinkie.jpg

 

[fair_warning]

Oliver Cromwell was right on so many levels.

"God has brought us here in safety... We are here to carry on the great work against the barbarous and blood-thirsty Irish... to propagate the Gospel of Christ and the establishment of truth... and to restore this nation to its former happiness and tranquillity". Oliver Cromwell, on his arrival in Ireland in 1649.

 

[KingOrfeo]

"God has brought us here in safety... We are here to carry on the great work against the barbarous and blood-thirsty Irish... to propagate the Gospel of Christ and the establishment of truth... and to restore this nation to its former happiness and tranquillity". Oliver Cromwell, on his arrival in Ireland in 1649.

And then he killed anywhere from 15% to five-sixths of the population, depending on which historian you ask. And after he killed them, they were tranquil!

And yet, for some reason, some traces of resentment linger . . .

 

[fair_warning]

And then he killed anywhere from 15% to five-sixths of the population, depending on which historian you ask. And after he killed them, they were tranquil!

And yet, for some reason, some traces of resentment linger . . .

You got it.

Apparently there are some scholars of Irish history that are attempting a revisionist narrative of Cromwell's time in Ireland.

 

[KingOrfeo]

You got it.

Apparently there are some scholars of Irish history that are attempting a revisionist narrative of Cromwell's time in Ireland.

Would the revision make him look better or worse?

 

[loquere]

The old gal is well old. But I do hear that she drives herself!

 

[KingOrfeo]

The old gal is well old. But I do hear that she drives herself!

And she still rides horses!

 

[fair_warning]

Would the revision make him look better or worse?

Better.
That he was simply, the man for the times. However, I haven't actually read any essays or articles that promote this line of thinking. I took Irish history as part of my undergraduate arts degree and from what I can remember about Cromwell in Ireland - any revisionist historian would have his/her work cut out to paint him in a better light!

 

[KingOrfeo]

Better.
That he was simply, the man for the times. However, I haven't actually read any essays or articles that promote this line of thinking. I took Irish history as part of my undergraduate arts degree and from what I can remember about Cromwell in Ireland - any revisionist historian would have his/her work cut out to paint him in a better light!

Why? He went there to kill Catholics, after all!

 

[fair_warning]

Why? He went there to kill Catholics, after all!

Hahaha..yes, point taken.

 

[hobbit.]

Why? He went there to kill Catholics, after all!

Unlike the England soccer team in the Ukraine.

 

[KingOrfeo]

The meeting seems to have gone well, anyway.

 

[oggbashan]

That handshake was difficult for both Her Majesty and for Martin McGuinness.

It is a sign that the stress between the communities in Northern Ireland has been significantly reduced, and that the violent minorities on both sides are no longer supported by their neighbours.

It is a step on the process towards recognising that Northern Ireland has a peaceful future and that relations between the UK and Ireland have improved.

For all its significance in the Peace process, it was just a handshake. Far more still needs to be done to heal deep wounds on both sides.

 

[hobbit.]

That handshake was difficult for both Her Majesty and for Martin McGuinness.

It is a sign that the stress between the communities in Northern Ireland has been significantly reduced, and that the violent minorities on both sides are no longer supported by their neighbours.

It is a step on the process towards recognising that Northern Ireland has a peaceful future and that relations between the UK and Ireland have improved.

For all its significance in the Peace process, it was just a handshake. Far more still needs to be done to heal deep wounds on both sides.

A start would be burying the rotting corpse of adams.

 

[torchthebitch]

Cromwell was a Cambridgeshire farmer. Like most English his involvement in Ireland was precipitated by Irish action. Firstly a reported (now disputed but he didn't know that) Srebrenica-style massacre in 1641 (although the death toll of protestants during the uprising is today assessed as 12,000 of a total population of 40,000, so not insignificant), and secondly the presence of Irish troops as part of the Royalist army during the English Civil War.

Irish "history" is the version written to support the creation myth of the Devaleran Irish state. Unfortunately this gels with the similar justification of hatred undepinning the creation myth of the United States. The revision referred to by f_w is a start by Irish historians that might just make the Irish accept their culpability in their own misfortune.

This,

I took Irish history as part of my undergraduate arts degree and from what I can remember about Cromwell in Ireland - any revisionist historian would have his/her work cut out to paint him in a better light!

I think, amply demonstrates just how uncritical most previous historical appreciation has been.

 

[Sean]

Cromwell was a Cambridgeshire farmer. Like most English his involvement in Ireland was precipitated by Irish action. Firstly a reported (now disputed but he didn't know that) Srebrenica-style massacre in 1641 (although the death toll of protestants during the uprising is today assessed as 12,000 of a total population of 40,000, so not insignificant), and secondly the presence of Irish troops as part of the Royalist army during the English Civil War.

Irish "history" is the version written to support the creation myth of the Devaleran Irish state. Unfortunately this gels with the similar justification of hatred undepinning the creation myth of the United States. The revision referred to by f_w is a start by Irish historians that might just make the Irish accept their culpability in their own misfortune.

This,



I think, amply demonstrates just how uncritical most previous historical appreciation has been.

Ah, the babies down the well myth. I've been trying to convince people in Ireland that it was bollocks made up by the Catholic Church for decades, but it's so ingrained in the Irish national consciousness that it's like banging your head against a brick wall.

 

[torchthebitch]

Ah, the babies down the well myth. I've been trying to convince people in Ireland that it was bollocks made up by the Catholic Church for decades, but it's so ingrained in the Irish national consciousness that it's like banging your head against a brick wall.

Well, what do you expect when these things are articles of faith.

I rather like that idea of "justification of hatred". It rather sums up the roadblock we face.

ETA I'm not confining those two ideas to only one side BTW.

 

[Mrtenant]

Think she just tryin to get her some from a bad boy before she croaks. She ain't gettin any younger, nothing to lose really. Already a foot in the grave. Or will she outlive Chucky's kids too?!