What happened to all of the doom and gloom economic threads?

[4est_4est_Gump]

We know.



We're doing "fine."
http://pajamasmedia.com/tatler/files/2011/04/obama-wide-grin80.jpg
Reelected and its understood!
Reelected and it feels so good!
No one I know in the Private Sector is hurting!
It's my buddies in government that feel your pain!
Reelected...

 

[mercury14]

Interesting article today on how Greece's default is going to negatively affect us...

Egyptian military taking over.

Sales down despite flagging gas prices, never a sign of a good economy and unemployment claims trending back up...

Must be the public sector.

In other signs of a general weakness and malaise in the West, Argentina is challenging Britain again and Putin is leading from behind in Syria by sending attack helicopters to Assad who used them to wipe out a rebel town and restore order, something we refused to do for ally Momar.

Yes, everything in fine, everything's alright, and we want you to sleep well tonight...

Gas purchasing is a large chunk of consumer sales. When gas prices drop, sales drop. And I already showed you how gas prices dipping last month caused net sales to dip into the negative by a small amount and would have otherwise been positive. The fact is, when gas prices spike, consumers spend more money.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Eat this.
Drink this.

You'll be fine...



By the way, we need to raise your taxes for the assistance of the Public Sector...
http://pajamasmedia.com/tatler/files/2011/04/obama-wide-grin80.jpg

 

[mercury14]

Spain, Greece, France, China and eventually, perhaps us since a Globally linked economic globe is a peaceful globe...

Why should my collapse be any faster than your recovery and the 500K new jobs a month of the recovery summer?

Faster? You said global markets were collapsing a month and a half ago. Want me to throw your quote back in your face one more time?

Nobody cares about whatever stupid comparison you're trying to make either.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Faster? You said global markets were collapsing a month and a half ago. Want me to throw your quote back in your face one more time?

You said we were recovering two years ago...

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Barack Obama has said the private sector is doing fine.

Tell that to small business owners; a new survey by Citigroup shows that 23% of small business owners have gone more than a year without pay. The study also says that 54% of them have gone without at least one paycheck; 38% of them said their employees had worked overtime without being compensated; and 18% of them had been unable to make a paycheck for their employees at least once.

During recent years, 78% of the owners have taken less profit, 70% have been working more hours, and 69% have used their own funds in order to keep their businesses afloat.

When asked what issues have been the most problematic for them, the owners didn’t rank their access to financing in the top five, instead claiming lack of sales and consumer confidence were the most troubling factors.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/06/14/twenty-three-percent-small-busines

 

[RobDownSouth]

Meanwhile, back in the real world, Good news for America means bad news for Glibertarians

U.S. Stock Futures Higher Amid Intervention Talks

Consumer prices fall 0.3% in May

Pentagon to mark gay pride month

Mortgage interest rates headed lower for sixth consecutive weeks

Hey AJ, if you really enjoy sodomizing your pet daschund, use our special code and call me a "winner"

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

You're probably familiar with the food stamp program which grew from $35 billion in 2008 to $75 billion last year. But did you know that getting food stamps also makes you eligible for a free government cell phone?

A program called Lifeline provides free phones and free monthly minutes to anyone on food stamps, WIC, Medicaid, Head Start, and several other government programs. And just like food stamps, Lifeline (aka "phone stamps") has been growing by leaps and bounds since 2008, at significant cost to taxpayers.

Lifeline was started in the mid-'80s to reduce the cost of phone service to rural and needy customers. The program's costs are covered by a tax included on every monthly phone bill called the Universal Service Charge. The program eventually grew to include discounted cell service but took off in 2009, partly because TracFone announced a new program whereby eligible individuals could get a free phone and free monthly minutes. As a result, participation in the program (and costs) skyrocketed:

Program participation was stable from 2005 to 2008, from 6.9 million to 7.1 million participants, but increased to 8.6 million in 2009. Likewise, support payments were relatively stable from 2005 to 2008, from $802 million to $823 million annually, before increasing to approximately $1 billion in 2009.

The rapid growth of the program has continued since then. In 2011, the FCC estimated the cost (page 153) of the program would be $2.1 billion and said it would reach $3.3 billion by 2014 absent major reforms. The FCC also found that part of the problem with the program was rampant fraud:

[O]ur ongoing oversight has revealed that a substantial number of subscribers are receiving duplicative Lifeline support, which includes individuals receiving two or more Lifeline benefits from ETCs as well as two or more individuals in a household receiving benefits from multiple ETCs.

How bad is the fraud? A survey conducted by the FCC across 17 states and territories found that, on average, 9% of phone recipients were ineligible (page 243). In some states like Alabama, New Hampshire, and West Virginia, the ineligibility rate was 18-19%. And all of that is based on a survey to which 27% of users refused to respond to questions.

In order to combat this problem, the FCC recommending the creation of a national database to keep track of multiple users. The project was expected to cost $7.5-$10 million to set up, though this is much less than the amount the government is expected to save by cutting duplicate lines.

And the freebies won't end with basic calling service. As part of the effort to extend broadband, the FCC has been discussing making broadband service part of the Lifeline program. In other words, taxpayers could soon be paying for smartphone features on these free government phones.

The real question is why American consumers should be providing free cell phones and free monthly talk time to 10 million people in the first place. As you can see in this video report from a Chicago ABC affiliate, some people signing up for these free phones are doing so to replace cell phones they already have (and have to pay for). If the goal is really to connect individuals to essential services such as fire and police, FCC rules already mandate that carriers transmit those calls along with detailed location information regardless of whether an individual has service with a carrier or not. Given our debt and our deficits, it is time to consider hanging up on this booming, fraud-ridden Lifeline to taxpayer's wallets.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Govern...Phones-Costing-Taxpayers-2-1-Billion-Per-Year

 

[mercury14]

You said we were recovering two years ago...

In the summer of 2010 we were recovering in terms of GDP, the Dow was up 4000 points, and we were adding about 100k jobs per month instead of losing 600k. What part of this doesn't sound like a recovery to you?

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

The part where we're repeating the pattern of the Great Depression with occasional bright spots but no real recovery only claims of recovery for political benefit.

If you ask me, I think what we're experiencing isn't in fact closer to a "growthless" recovery than to a jobless one. Because GDP started to grow more than a year and a half ago, but with the exception of just a couple of quarters, growth has not been noticeably above its trend rate of about 2-1/2 percent a year. I don't rejoice at the news that we added 216,000 jobs in March. About a hundred thousand of that 216,000 is needed every month just to keep up with the growth in the labor force. At this rate of job growth, it would take most of the decade to replace the eight 8-1/2 million jobs that were lost in the recession.
Christina Romer
Chairwoman of Obama's White House Council of Economic Advisors

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

At least we know where the economic bar is going on into the future in a possible Romney Presidency...

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

The new Helotage:

http://townhall.com/columnists/victordavishanson/2012/06/15/the_new_american_helots/page/full/

Victor Davis Hanson

 

[mercury14]

At least we know where the economic bar is going on into the future in a possible Romney Presidency...

The fact that you're sitting here in 2012 complaining about a long-gone middle-level administration official is pathetic.

 

[mercury14]

The part where we're repeating the pattern of the Great Depression with occasional bright spots but no real recovery only claims of recovery for political benefit.

If you ask me, I think what we're experiencing isn't in fact closer to a "growthless" recovery than to a jobless one. Because GDP started to grow more than a year and a half ago, but with the exception of just a couple of quarters, growth has not been noticeably above its trend rate of about 2-1/2 percent a year. I don't rejoice at the news that we added 216,000 jobs in March. About a hundred thousand of that 216,000 is needed every month just to keep up with the growth in the labor force. At this rate of job growth, it would take most of the decade to replace the eight 8-1/2 million jobs that were lost in the recession.
Christina Romer
Chairwoman of Obama's White House Council of Economic Advisors

No real recovery?

WTF?

Do you know where we've been?

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Remember the derivative schemes to move debt off the bank's books so that they could take on more debt?

This is what it looks like when Governments do it...

http://mises.org/daily/6067/Passing-the-Bailout-Buck

"When two gangs put off a fight, it only gets worse."
Yojimbo

 

[Adre]

One wonders if we will get past the rabid, partisan sniping about the day-to-day changes in the Dow and employment figures and get to the real substantive issues related to the economy. The structural changes that have taken place over twenty to thirty years are far more important than the bullshit being tossed around here. I'm sure one of you can supply a few C&Ps along these lines. I think some who believe that all it takes to get employment back to 4 percent is put Romney in office will be sorely disappointed. He has no more power to change the new economic reality than Obama. By and large, businesses are doing quite well and are very profitable right now. Why would they go on a hiring spree?

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

No real recovery?

WTF?

Do you know where we've been?

No where that we have not been before. This is the first deep recession that did not result in an even more robust recovery. We are mired at 8% unemployment even after clearing our books of jobs and workers to get below 9%. To call this a real recovery would seem to be politically motivated or the smug words of someone in the Public Sector with job security. The reason that we did not recover is the actions and words of the Democrat Party creating fear and uncertainty over the economic future with promises of a European-style Social Welfare State in the name of "fairness."

 

[Ulaven_Demorte]

lol

Two short months ago (or less) ya'll were doing the happy days are here again dance over 13K and the sky's the limit and since then, there's been nothing but less than cheerful news, and here you are again, just like post #1 falling into the stocks as indicator trap coupled with yet another prediction of being elected on the basis of a sound economy, at least, *snicker*, in the private sector...



Now it needs to be looted to serve the public sector.

Laugh it up.

Y'all?

I wasn't pointing to the DJI as anything. What I WAS doing was pointing out that the usual suspects don't mention it unless it's bad news. Reading comprehension isn't exactly your strong suit is it?

The economy has been climbing slowy out of the pit it was left in by the previous administration despite the current batch of "conservatives" doing all that it can to stall any recovery for the sake of political gain. It's been demonstrated again and again over the last nearly three years now.

Party over country seems to be the mantra of the GOP (and NotRepublicans) these days.

Have you actually made up your mind yet or are you still being pulled in two different directions by such highly respected sources of news as PJMedia *LMAO* and Breitbart's "BigGovernment" *insert even bigger laugh*? Is it to be inflation or deflation that finally does us in? You've alternated between those two on an almost weekly basis as if they were interchangeable since this thread began.

Almost three years and not one of the dire predictions has come true. Here we are, still recovering and "y'all" are still screeching like the DJI is still under 7K, and we're still bleeding 600K jobs a month.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

One wonders if we will get past the rabid, partisan sniping about the day-to-day changes in the Dow and employment figures and get to the real substantive issues related to the economy. The structural changes that have taken place over twenty to thirty years are far more important than the bullshit being tossed around here. I'm sure one of you can supply a few C&Ps along these lines. I think some who believe that all it takes to get employment back to 4 percent is put Romney in office will be sorely disappointed. He has no more power to change the new economic reality than Obama. By and large, businesses are doing quite well and are very profitable right now. Why would they go on a hiring spree?

We have overcome structural changes before and will do so again unless government becomes our partner, nanny and benefactor.

This is why the Federal government was limited by the Founding Fathers and if you love government as it is structured under Obama, then Romney will be of no threat to any of you or your dreams of a greatly enhanced social safety net.

But we do see that 8% has become an acceptable new norm and long as the food stamps and free phones flow forth...

 

[Adre]

We have overcome structural changes before and will do so again unless government becomes our partner, nanny and benefactor.

This is why the Federal government was limited by the Founding Fathers and if you love government as it is structured under Obama, then Romney will be of no threat to any of you or your dreams of a greatly enhanced social safety net.

But we do see that 8% has become an acceptable new norm and long as the food stamps and free phones flow forth...

Your condescending responses are becoming more transparent and boring.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Furthermore Adre, the lack of hiring is not the factor, the factor is the lack of Capital investment that will not occur do to the uncertainty of government direction and who the winners are that will be picked.

There is a lot to be done in manufacturing on the nature of robotics, but no one will do that if they think that their losses will be absorbed by them and their profits will be absorbed by the government to maintain a dole class.

If you like 8% in exchange for enhanced social benefit, then Obama is your man.

If you want to turn back towards 4%, even a little, then Romney is your man, he has done this before. He rescued an Olympics, Obama lost an Olympics.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Your condescending responses are becoming more transparent and boring.

Then put me on ignore and enjoy the company of merc, U_D and Throb where your creative economic juices can be properly simmered...

I really do not care.

I'm the one who has consistently pointed out since the inception of this thread that we were just treading water.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

I was the first to use Kudlow, in this thread to warn the right of the upcoming recovery in time for Obama's election.

This time he's calling a double-dip.

Hope he's wrong!

CHANGE!



http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2012/06/15/a_global_recession_114497.html

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

More:

Job growth has been slipping badly for three months. Retail sales and factory orders are down two straight months. Real incomes are flat. Household wealth is way underwater from the housing collapse, dropping nearly 40 percent in the last three measured years. And gross domestic product was an anemic 1.9 percent in the first quarter. Nearly all leading Wall Street economists are marking down their second-quarter estimates to 2 percent or less.

But here's the key point: 2 percent growth is not a recovery. Many economists would call it a growth recession. When you get that low, there's little margin for error. A shock from Europe, an inventory selloff in the U.S. or almost any unexpected event could push us back into negative territory for an official double-dip recession.

The last saving grace for the U.S.? Business sales and profits are still trending higher, although GDP-measured profits did fall in the first quarter. That needs to be watched carefully.

That said, a recent IBD poll shows that the number of households with at least one person looking for employment is 23 percent. That translates to 30 million people looking for work. That's not a recovery.

I can think of two major reasons for the latest economic stall -- even inside an overall recovery rate that's only half the normal pace of post-World War II recoveries. First is the deflationary impact of a sharp, nearly 10 percent rise in the exchange value of the dollar relative to the euro. That's imparting a deflationary influence on the economy, where both import and producer prices have recently turned negative. The good side of commodity deflation is that oil and retail gas prices have fallen considerably; the bad side is that manufacturers may hold back production and that debtors have to climb out of deeper holes.

RECOVERY!!!

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Did he really say "Deflation?"





U_D?