"Fifty Shades of Grey"

[Keroin]

This should be the opening of an actual book.

Fifty Shades of Clive.

 

[BiBunny]

Best part about this book that I haven't actually read?

The Last Psychiatrist's running commentary about it on Twitter.

I The Last Psych.

 

[Miles Long]

Best part about this book that I haven't actually read?

The Last Psychiatrist's running commentary about it on Twitter.

I The Last Psych.

Those twitterbombtweettweets are hilarious.

 

[NomadLady]

I read all three books this past week in a little over three days, they are no doubt some of the BEST reading I've done lately. I stayed up until 5am finishing the second one. If anyone wants to read them, I have all three in a pdf format I can email to you if you private message me offline.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Best part about this book that I haven't actually read?

The Last Psychiatrist's running commentary about it on Twitter.

I The Last Psych.

His commentary is a piece of shit. "Does she know any men?" She knows women, asshole. She knows what women want and she gave them that. That's why it's called "Fiction."

"Do these women think the girl could be their daughter?" No they think she could be them. In our hearts, women are always seventeen.

Pretty obtuse, for a shrink.

I would love to see him livetweet some John Ringo. Let him ask if the men who read it ever think those women could be their daughters.

 

[sweepthefloor]

I am going to write a novel: 50 shades of My Face Fucked Up. It’s going to be a best seller. I will give all of you signed copies.

 

[BiBunny]

His commentary is a piece of shit. "Does she know any men?" She knows women, asshole. She knows what women want and she gave them that. That's why it's called "Fiction."

"Do these women think the girl could be their daughter?" No they think she could be them. In our hearts, women are always seventeen.

Pretty obtuse, for a shrink.

I would love to see him livetweet some John Ringo. Let him ask if the men who read it ever think those women could be their daughters.

Eh, his whole schtick is that he's the world's biggest misanthrope. That's where it comes from, I think.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Eh, his whole schtick is that he's the world's biggest misanthrope. That's where it comes from, I think.

Ah, that.

 

[NomadLady]

Do people ever actually use contracts as extensive as Christian's? That seemed like a strange first step with a woman he had barely met.
Also, I thought his reaction to discovering she was a virgin was a bit humorous.
"Here, let me get you into a bedroom and have vanilla sex so we can rid you of this curse."

But honestly, are such contracts really negotiated?

Yes, contracts can be extremely extensive and yes they are negotiated to account for hard and soft limits for the safety of both parties involved.

 

[JennX]

So its clear that the implication is that those who enjoy this lifestyle have some kind of issue.

I was thinking the same thing. Yes, that kind of drama adds interest to the story, but it's too bad some unknowing readers may get that idea.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I was thinking the same thing. Yes, that kind of drama adds interest to the story, but it's too bad some unknowing readers may get that idea.

Nothing new there.

 

[Kurokami]

Nothing new there.

True, but that doesn't make it okay, either. A shitty situation that persists is still a shitty situation, and Fifty Shades is actually pretty terrible representation, both of bdsm and, more broadly, relationships. It just confirms a negative stereotype and, at worst, interests the reader in the subculture while simultaneously giving them some way warped ideas about it.

... I wonder if I can form a protest group against the book based on its inaccurate representation of the kinky stuff?

 

[Stella_Omega]

True, but that doesn't make it okay, either. A shitty situation that persists is still a shitty situation, and Fifty Shades is actually pretty terrible representation, both of bdsm and, more broadly, relationships. It just confirms a negative stereotype and, at worst, interests the reader in the subculture while simultaneously giving them some way warped ideas about it.

... I wonder if I can form a protest group against the book based on its inaccurate representation of the kinky stuff?

On the other hand we've had a lot of women asking about how to find a Master of their own.

So it might be giving those women a slightly different message.

 

[Kurokami]

On the other hand we've had a lot of women asking about how to find a Master of their own.

So it might be giving those women a slightly different message.

That's right, and it's those women I was thinking of, in part, before. Because Fifty Shades isn't just about inflicting guilt on bdsm-interested parties, it's also about a (sexually inexperienced, if she wasn't already predator bait.) woman who, with minimal research and no idea as to safety procedures, proper etiquette or standards of behavior, enters into an extended engagement with a man she believes to have unresolved mental issues that he's venting through bdsm, and allows him to tie her up and beat her after knowing him a few weeks. And it all works out happily ever after. In the real world, this kind of stuff would make a woman a prime candidate for all the asshole doms that prey on this kind of stuff. We see it quite a bit, and in the universe of Fifty Shades, what that leads to is falling heavily in love with a millionaire. It's damn near irresponsible.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Well, when they show up here, we send them to the reading list.

Also, almost every woman knows damn well that men can be predators. That there is a difference between romance and real life.

BTW, according to one women I know, the whole book is about consent-- voiced, enthusiastic consent, and when some guy kisses her agaisnt her will, he gets told off about it. I just got copies and I will at least skim it so I know better.

But I am so fucking sick and tired of all this grousing and sniping about an erotic book that thousands of women have loved and gotten off on. That popular erotica such an unusual occurrence among women as to be so newsworthy -- is shameful. Nobody thinks twice about Hustler etc, or remarks on how amazing it is that so many men enjoy cheap porn so very much.

Instead of bitching about how the books are bad, you would be much smarter to read and see if you can figure out what makes them work for the women who love them. Then you can place those erotic elements into better writing.

 

[Kurokami]

But I am so fucking sick and tired of all this grousing and sniping about an erotic book that thousands of women have loved and gotten off on. That popular erotica such an unusual occurrence among women as to be so newsworthy -- is shameful. Nobody thinks twice about Hustler etc, or remarks on how amazing it is that so many men enjoy cheap porn so very much.

Instead of bitching about how the books are bad, you would be much smarter to read and see if you can figure out what makes them work for the women who love them. Then you can place those erotic elements into better writing.

I agree, and I actually find it quite refreshing to see a book that features kink so prominently on bookshelves and being popular. But irrespective of popularity, or the gender politics of the consumption of erotica, I retain the right to have concerns about the way a large portion of my sexual identity is portrayed to mainstream audiences. Is it so much to ask that a book that's aimed at using bdsm to titillate not perpetuate negative stereotypes about it?

I'm not interested in dealing with the quality or popularity of these books, I'm interested in the content. As you're rightly said, Stella, something like this doesn't come along every day; when it does, it might be worth a little analysis.

As to the consent issue, yes the book is all about consent. The problem being that it's not consent based on anything that might resemble an educated or equal ideal. I mean, Grey actually requires that Ana sign a non disclosure agreement before he even comes out as a dom. She's never given an opportunity (or apparently any desire to) establish anything about bdsm other than what he tells her. He gets to set the definition of what a dominant/submissive relationship is for her, which strikes me as the beginning of something abusive right there. And that's leaving aside his disturbing stalker tendencies.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Is it so much to ask that a book that's aimed at using bdsm to titillate not perpetuate negative stereotypes about it?

Well the problem you are describing in fifty shades, I think is that the problematic issues are being presented as if they are not problematic.

Or something.

 

[Kurokami]

Well the problem you are describing in fifty shades, I think is that the problematic issues are being presented as if they are not problematic.

Or something.

Partially that, partially the constant linking of bdsm to mental illness, partially the idea that bdsm precludes the possibility of a real, lasting romantic relationship. In this book, there are two characters that are into bdsm from the outset: one is constantly referred to as a monster and mentally ill, and the other is apparently a child molester. It's all very progressive.

I guess I just don't appreciate it, and maybe I am taking it a tad too personally, but if nothing else it's an interesting cultural artifact, if one I find dissatisfying.

 

[Riles]

From a 'vanilla' pov.

Forgive me, I am not a part of your community but I couldn't find where this book was being discussed in depth in any other part of Lit yet.

I've read this thread, and though I can't comment on the feelings evoked by the bdsm tones in the story AS a member of any such play/lifestyle, I CAN comment as a general reader who has enough practicality to know that this book is really just serving to titillate, not educate.

"Kinky fuckery" as it's often and so perfectly referred to in the books is all it really is. So I don't think there should be worry that any half ways intelligent individual is going to read these books and suddenly consider themselves experts. Nor are they going to believe that individuals who do subscribe to this choice of sexual behaviour are in some way damaged because the author wrote in a disturbing history for the male lead. They are fun to read, just as any book can be. The author has mixed all the deliciousness of sexual deviance and fantasy into a love story....what's wrong with that?

And with that, pardon the intrusion into "your" world.

 

[rosco rathbone]

BDSM has gone mainstream: all the guys were talking about 50 Shades in the locker room the other day. These are construction workers whose interests are mainly limited to sports and cars.

"Yeah, chicks love that shit. Tie em up, spank em, all that."

(makes sideways slapping gestures at an imaginary ass "bap! bap!")

Everyone laughs.

 

[PrettyKitty10]

*sigh* I caved to the pressure of my friends, and I actually bought the first book. I couldn't even read it past the first two chapters. Not trying to knock anyone who thought it was good...seriously...different strokes, right? But I couldn't get past the fact that it seemed to be written by a twelve year old. Her inner monologue is mundane and unbelievable.

I read the first sex scene at the urging of my book club, because they insisted it was HOT. To me, it was not.

I don't get it, I don't get the hype.

 

[afriendg]

Yeah, I was persuaded by my fellow "vanilla" housewives to read at least the first book...and I have to say I was underwhelmed...the writing is poor, ordinarily the book wouldn't have been given the time of day, except for the novelty of "hot" sex aimed at women..there certainly hasn't been a lot of that in mainstream literature...maybe it's time to get some more..or maybe there's a "secret" appeal...this quote from a long poem by Sylvia Plath came to mind:
"Every woman adores a Fascist. The boot in the face, the brute.
Brute heart of a brute like you.''
Perhaps, on some level..it is so...

 

[TxBookGirl]

.....

 

[Kurokami]

On another note, I do hope women don't take the books too seriously. There are a lot of creeps out there ready to take advantage.

This. This is my point exactly. Regardless of their overall quality- and seriously, I don't begrudge anyone who happened to enjoy the series, it's just not for me- these books do represent the first look into bdsm with any depth for many of their readers. It's pretty much the reason they've gained such mainstream traction, trading on the taboo and exotic nature of all the kinky stuff. Which is fine, it's hardly the first time, but the problem is... Grey's not so much a dominant as he is an aggressively alpha-male dickhole with control issues. He is literally the poster boy for all those creeps out there, and he's being glamorized into some kind of kinky sex god. I'd hate to think of anyone thinking that's all there is to bdsm, let alone acting on that illusion.

I mean, we see it plenty right here on the boards; (young) women looking for their first Master, only to end up jumping in with the first guy to order them around, who "truly owns" them up until the point where he's had enough fap material. By no means is that the worst that could happen, but we do have the model for it right there in the personals, repeated time and again...

 

[emsub124]

Read it!

Read all three of them.
After I did a little bit of research, they are actually a sexual spin off of the twilight saga. I actually really enjoyed all of them except theykinda didn't give the right view of the whole BDSM lifestyle. They went from a full out BDSM relationship to her safe wording to them just doing role play and getting married and having children. With him being overprotective and rash. They are really hot but a bit repetitive. They were really good though. not the best literature out there. Over all I understand why they are on the NYtimes bestseller list.