What happened to all of the doom and gloom economic threads?

[Sean]

That argument is good a gold. The difference is nothing but institutionalized inflation. Even Lenin said Marxists don't know anything about economics.

One pound sterling in 1913 would now be worth £325 (as of 2010) and we don't have a federal reserve. In fact, 1 pound sterling in 1245 would now be worth £13,100 and we didn't even have organised banks back then.

 

[JohnnySavage]

One pound sterling in 1913 would now be worth £325 (as of 2010) and we don't have a federal reserve. In fact, 1 pound sterling in 1245 would now be worth £13,100 and we didn't even have organised banks back then.

The average income (in the US) in 1913 was about $3,000. The average income last year was about $43,000.

I'm trying to follow vette's logic that inflation has killed the dollar. I guess he's saying he'd feel better if we lopped off a zero. That would make everything, economically, just peachy.

The value of the dollar has gone down... but the amount of dollars we make has gone up. Isn't that a wash????

Vetteconomics are very confusing.

 

[unregistered]

 

[Sean]

Yeah so? We're addressing the Fed monetary policy here in America.

And you're confusing correlation with causation by disregarding inconvenient facts that happen to make you look like an idiot.

 

[unregistered]

 

[Sean]

The average income (in the US) in 1913 was about $3,000. The average income last year was about $43,000.

I'm trying to follow vette's logic that inflation has killed the dollar. I guess he's saying he'd feel better if we lopped off a zero. That would make everything, economically, just peachy.

The value of the dollar has gone down... but the amount of dollars we make has gone up. Isn't that a wash????

Vetteconomics are very confusing.

The only real way to equate them is something like how long does the average bloke have to work to buy something basic, a loaf of bread or a pint of beer.

 

[JohnnySavage]

~View Post~

$3000 bucks in 1913 Dollars is worth $69,722.73 in today's Dollar, so you've lost ground. Back to Iggy.

So the measure of the loss of value is the difference between $43,000 and $69,722 (assuming your position is correct - which it's not). You were making it sound like it was a 1:23.24 loss

It takes $23.24 of today's dollars to equal the purchasing power of the 1913 Dollar.

 

[JohnnySavage]

The only real way to equate them is something like how long does the average bloke have to work to buy something basic, a loaf of bread or a pint of beer.

I know he means well, pining for the good ole days, but his ignorance of economics makes it nearly impossible to talk to him. That's not a reflection on him, he just simply doesn't know what he's talking about and has neither the education nor willingness to learn that would allow a discussion.

 

[unregistered]

 

[Adre]

How about if we just send these crackpots back to 1913. Sounds like they'd like it there

 

[JohnnySavage]

As an addendum: I'd add that the $3,000 average income in 1913 comes from the tax returns. In 1913 there was even less participation in filing a return then there is today. The actual average income has been estimated to be closer to $700.

 

[Sean]

The inconvenient facts are that the Fed has inflated the nation's currency in order for the government to borrow and spend money it didn't have the political support to tax the people for. Don't believe me, take it from your own renown countryman:

"Lenin is said to have said the best way to destroy the Capitalist System was to debauch the currency. By a continuing process of inflation, government can confiscate, secretly and unobserved, an important part of the wealth of their citizens. By this method they not only confiscate, but they confiscate arbitrarily; and, while the process impoverishes many, it actually enriches some. The sight of this arbitrary rearrangement of riches strikes not only at security, but at confidence in the equality equity in the existing distribution of wealth.... As the inflation proceeds and the real value of the currency fluctuates wildly from month to month, all permanent relations between debtors and creditors, which form the ultimate foundation of capitalism, become so utterly disordered as to become almost meaningless; and the process of wealth-getting degenerates into a gamble and a lottery.

Lenin was certainly right. There is no subtler, no surer means of overturning the existing basis of society than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose."

John Maynard Keynes

Where does Keynes say that's what the fed are doing?

 

[JohnnySavage]

How would one provide for economic expansion without increasing the money supply

 

[JohnnySavage]

Without a central bank, how would the currency be controlled and distributed

 

[JohnnySavage]

I guess if I wanted a BMW I could ship a bar of gold to Germany.

 

[Sean]

How would one provide for economic expansion without increasing the money supply

How can you possibly HAVE economic expansion without increasing the money supply?

 

[pink]

I'm here to flame, don't mind me.

 

[Adre]

I guess if I wanted a BMW I could ship a bar of gold to Germany.

If you want a BMW you're not welcome in their America

 

[JohnnySavage]

How can you possibly HAVE economic expansion without increasing the money supply?

It's a real head scratcher, that's for sure. I blame the illegals for increasing the population 10 fold.

 

[Adre]

How can you possibly HAVE economic expansion without increasing the money supply?

Goldbugs don't want expansion, they just want the gold for themselves

 

[Sean Renaud]

How can you possibly HAVE economic expansion without increasing the money supply?

You increase the amount of divisions in your currency. See we should lop off some of those zeros and create half pennies and deci-pennies! Damn socialists can't even solve simple questions like how do you make a ten slice pie into a thousand slices without making more pie.

 

[Sean]

It's a real head scratcher, that's for sure. I blame the illegals for increasing the population 10 fold.

Interesting thought experiment, though. Let's assume you increase the production of widgets tenfold without increasing the supply of shekels. What do we think happens to the value of the widget and the shekel?

 

[JohnnySavage]

Goldbugs don't want expansion, they just want the gold for themselves

Ask one of them what an oz of gold is worth, and they will invariably give you a value in dollars.

Ironic.

 

[JohnnySavage]

Interesting thought experiment, though. Let's assume you increase the production of widgets tenfold without increasing the supply of shekels. What do we think happens to the value of the widget and the shekel?

Shekel... that sounds like fiat money!

And foreign!

 

[koalabear]

Ask one of them what an oz of gold is worth, and they will invariably give you a value in dollars.

Ironic.

What would you give it in?