So you want to repeal Obamacare?

[BoyNextDoor]

Then you had better pony up an alternative right quick. My company's care is rising this year like many others. We put the plan out to bid and of the six national carriers in the US only one bid. The company can not carry the increase because it already carried the last two increases so it is being passed to the employee in the form of higher monthly premiums, higher deductibles and higher co-pays.

So the "Day One" plan can be repeal the Healthcare Affordability Act, but I'd like to know the Day Two alternative because healthcare costs are fucking killing businesses and employees.

 

[KingOrfeo]

Then you had better pony up an alternative right quick.

Single-payer, Canadian-style, end of discussion.

 

[coachdb18]

Single-payer, Canadian-style, end of discussion.

Get the government out of healthcare, and the regulations out of the pricing. Healthcare costs are 10%, government costs are 90% of the cost we all pay for our medical care. Nationalized health care is a loser. Been there done that, no thanks!

 

[eyer]

Then you had better pony up an alternative right quick. My company's care is rising this year like many others. We put the plan out to bid and of the six national carriers in the US only one bid. The company can not carry the increase because it already carried the last two increases so it is being passed to the employee in the form of higher monthly premiums, higher deductibles and higher co-pays.

So the "Day One" plan can be repeal the Healthcare Affordability Act, but I'd like to know the Day Two alternative because healthcare costs are fucking killing businesses and employees.

Have you ever cared enough to ask me how my personal business is going?

Nooooh...

...you have not.


THEN WHY IN THE FVCK WOULD YOU EVEN IMAGINE I GIVE A SH!T ABOUT YOURS!?!


...

...just kidding (not really).

 

[BoyNextDoor]

Healthcare costs are 10%, government costs are 90% of the cost we all pay for our medical care.

What? If the stuff you are smoking is that good be a dude and pass it this way.

Medicare functions at 3% administrative overhead. Private healthcare is from 15 to 22 %. Private healthcare is wildly inefficient at allocation and is a classic failure of the market.

Ok but fine - get the government out. Let's have it your way and say you are all about repealing healthcare reform. So now, offer an alternative because the current system is fucking you and me over. Hard.

 

[coachdb18]

What? If the stuff you are smoking is that good be a dude and pass it this way.

Medicare functions at 3% administrative overhead. Private healthcare is from 15 to 22 %. Private healthcare is wildly inefficient at allocation and is a classic failure of the market.

Ok but fine - get the government out. Let's have it your way and say you are all about repealing healthcare reform. So now, offer an alternative because the current system is fucking you and me over. Hard.

Ever been in an FDA audit?... are you familiar with 21CFR820 requirements? Get rid of 90% of that addiction to regulation and you cut health acare costs by 90% with no impact to quality of care. Have you ever filed a 510(k) application, or been involved in an NDA/ANDA? Are you aware of the costs of litigation that run health care costs to astronomical levels, without merit? Please get your government out of my health care...

 

[KingOrfeo]

Purely anecdotal, but I attended the 2003 World Science Fiction Convention in Toronto, and attended a panel discussion (forget the topic) and the subject of Canadian health care came up, and I asked the panel, "Are there any downsides to the Canadian health-care system?" Based on criticism I'd encountered in American media, I was expecting a heated debate. But all the half-dozen Canadian panelists shrugged, and said, "No." "No." No." And seemed rather surprised at the question. And there was a crowd of at least a hundred at that panel, and not a whisper of dissent did I hear. Now, granted, the kind of people who will appear as panelists at an SF con are not a representative cross-section of Canadian or any society. Generally, they're smarter and more sophisticated than average.

 

[BoyNextDoor]

Ever been in an FDA audit?... are you familiar with 21CFR820 requirements? Get rid of 90% of that addiction to regulation and you cut health acare costs by 90% with no impact to quality of care. Have you ever filed a 510(k) application, or been involved in an NDA/ANDA? Are you aware of the costs of litigation that run health care costs to astronomical levels, without merit? Please get your government out of my health care...

Yes I have filed a 510(k). I have spent my career in healthcare technology. And I want my medical devices and instruments developed and manufactured in a clean room and tested to be sure they function properly. That is a miniscule cost factor and providing for a 510(k) cleared medical device is an essential government function. The real issue is that Medicare spent $55 Billion dollars for people in the last two months of life last year.

So talk about no impact on the quality of care - how about no impact on the quality of life. This is what has to change and the current healthcare reform addresses this starting in 2014. So again - repeal it 'Day One' but tell me the alternative.

 

[coachdb18]

Purely anecdotal, but I attended the 2003 World Science Fiction Convention in Toronto, and attended a panel discussion (forget the topic) and the subject of Canadian health care came up, and I asked the panel, "Are there any downsides to the Canadian health-care system?" Based on criticism I'd encountered in American media, I was expecting a heated debate. But all the half-dozen Canadian panelists shrugged, and said, "No." "No." No." And seemed rather surprised at the question. And there was a crowd of at least a hundred at that panel, and not a whisper of dissent did I hear. Now, granted, the kind of people who will appear as panelists at an SF con are not a representative cross-section of Canadian or any society. Generally, they're smarter and more sophisticated than average.

Super, so while you're waiting the required 6 months in Canada to get an MRI, and your hospitals are closing due to financial collapse, you can always find a Sci Fi writer to do your cardiac bypass... too funny!

 

[KingOrfeo]

Super, so while you're waiting the required 6 months in Canada to get an MRI, and your hospitals are closing due to financial collapse, you can always find a Sci Fi writer to do your cardiac bypass... too funny!

Their impressions are, of course, based on experience as users of the system (and, as taxpayers); same with the crowd-in-attendance.

 

[BoyNextDoor]

Purely anecdotal, but I attended the 2003 World Science Fiction Convention in Toronto, and attended a panel discussion (forget the topic) and the subject of Canadian health care came up, and I asked the panel, "Are there any downsides to the Canadian health-care system?" Based on criticism I'd encountered in American media, I was expecting a heated debate. But all the half-dozen Canadian panelists shrugged, and said, "No." "No." No." And seemed rather surprised at the question. And there was a crowd of at least a hundred at that panel, and not a whisper of dissent did I hear. Now, granted, the kind of people who will appear as panelists at an SF con are not a representative cross-section of Canadian or any society. Generally, they're smarter and more sophisticated than average.

Not sold on Single Payer either. I am not so sure I want the Bureaucracy to have access to more trillions of dollars. I like the idea of forcing everyone to pony up. The market is inefficient in the allocation of healthcare so we mandate it like car insurance. You want to drive - you buy insurance. You want to live in the US - you buy insurance. No free riders.

 

[coachdb18]

Yes I have filed a 510(k). I have spent my career in healthcare technology. And I want my medical devices and instruments developed and manufactured in a clean room and tested to be sure they function properly. That is a miniscule cost factor and providing for a 510(k) cleared medical device is an essential government function. The real issue is that Medicare spent $55 Billion dollars for people in the last two months of life last year.

So talk about no impact on the quality of care - how about no impact on the quality of life. This is what has to change and the current healthcare reform addresses this starting in 2014. So again - repeal it 'Day One' but tell me the alternative.

If the cost is so 'miniscule', there'd be no health care cost problem. I too have spent my career in health care and medical device manufacture, and the overhead to companies is passed on to consumers. Yes, you may in fact WANT many things in relation to health care, all of which add to the end user price. What we have never had is a discussion of what is NEEDED to make a quality product. All the FDA inspections in the world still give us lots of useless hours of useless inspections, when the actual product would be better served targeting what actually is received by the patient. What good does it do to spend 99% of your effort making paperwork, computer tracking with audit trails and national networks, clinical trials of 20 years plus, etc if the cost of lal this is so punitive nobody can afford it?

 

[Johnny_Ray_Wilson]

Yes I have filed a 510(k). I have spent my career in healthcare technology. And I want my medical devices and instruments developed and manufactured in a clean room and tested to be sure they function properly. That is a miniscule cost factor and providing for a 510(k) cleared medical device is an essential government function. The real issue is that Medicare spent $55 Billion dollars for people in the last two months of life last year.

So talk about no impact on the quality of care - how about no impact on the quality of life. This is what has to change and the current healthcare reform addresses this starting in 2014. So again - repeal it 'Day One' but tell me the alternative.

Hmmmph. Good point BND. Thank you for the link.

 

[unregistered]

 

[LJ_Reloaded]

Ever been in an FDA audit?... are you familiar with 21CFR820 requirements? Get rid of 90% of that addiction to regulation and you cut health acare costs by 90% with no impact to quality of care. Have you ever filed a 510(k) application, or been involved in an NDA/ANDA? Are you aware of the costs of litigation that run health care costs to astronomical levels, without merit? Please get your government out of my health care...

That's some strong stuff you're smokin', dude. Pass the bong, don't hog it.

 

[cubbies]

That's some strong stuff you're smokin', dude. Pass the bong, don't hog it.

thread killa

 

[pierrelarue161]

Replace it with single-payer. Obamacare just enriches the insurance companies. Canadian system, here we go.

 

[richard_daily]

Absolutely!

What about Romneycare?

 

[JoeRockStar]

Simple - open up state to state competition for insurance companies and watch the prices drop dramatically. ANY TIME the government takes over something, it becomes a disaster.

 

[Adre]

Simple - open up state to state competition for insurance companies and watch the prices drop dramatically. ANY TIME the government takes over something, it becomes a disaster.

Beware of those who offer "simple" solutions to large and complex problems decades in the making. In my experience, many of those who denigrate all government are those who are the first to demand government response: fix my highway, invade that country, deliver my mail, educate my child, inspect my beef, ensure safe drugs. You like the idea of living without all that and more? Be my guest

 

[JoeRockStar]

Beware of those who offer "simple" solutions to large and complex problems decades in the making.

It's not rocket science. If an insurance company can sell to a larger pool, they reduce their volatility and can drop costs. It's simple economics and does not NEED to be complicated!

It would take some time before the cost savings are realized but it WOULD work:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/aroy/20...th-insurance-across-state-lines-reduce-costs/

 

[VaticanAssassin]

Then you had better pony up an alternative right quick. My company's care is rising this year like many others. We put the plan out to bid and of the six national carriers in the US only one bid. The company can not carry the increase because it already carried the last two increases so it is being passed to the employee in the form of higher monthly premiums, higher deductibles and higher co-pays.

So the "Day One" plan can be repeal the Healthcare Affordability Act, but I'd like to know the Day Two alternative because healthcare costs are fucking killing businesses and employees.

Tell you employer to go to a high deductible plan with a critical illness ryder...It is all the rage in broker shenanigans!

Or better yet, tell them to fire their lazy ass broker who is making 15% commissions for doing nothing.

I will only charge 5% for doing nothing.

 

[richard_daily]

Simple - open up state to state competition for insurance companies and watch the prices drop dramatically. ANY TIME the government takes over something, it becomes a disaster.

Yeah, that worked VERY well in the past...

Uhh, except it didn't.

 

[richard_daily]

It's not rocket science. If an insurance company can sell to a larger pool, they reduce their volatility and can drop costs. It's simple economics and does not NEED to be complicated!

It would take some time before the cost savings are realized but it WOULD work:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/aroy/20...th-insurance-across-state-lines-reduce-costs/

You do realize that "Obamacare" is leading to a much larger pool that insurance companies can sell to, don't you?

Please tell me that you're not really this dense in real life.

 

[TexasWife25]

You do realize that "Obamacare" is leading to a much larger pool that insurance companies can sell to, don't you?

Please tell me that you're not really this dense in real life.

The affordable care act is evil, please don't ask for actual specifics or a factual discussion on the good or bad parts of it though, it's just evil.