Underage sex/sex with minors

[sr71plt]

I actually am a bit guilty of liking the 'catch-all' nature of the gay male cat. It makes the category bigger, and there's never that problem of submitting your story and worrying that it will go to a category that gets very few votes or comments.

I'm worried that if gay male gets split, that all of my stories might go to some seldom-read category. Like gay novels and novellas

It would save a number of the occasional angry (probably with low vote attached) comments on a GM story that it really should be in this other category or that one based on a misunderstanding that GM trumps all other choices.

And I agree that the archive wouldn't have to be split up--that this isn't a showstopper explanation for anything.

But again, this isn't campaigning for the category changes--but I understand that nothing's going to change.

 

[isobelh]

I'd quibble that it's better off without underage stories than with them.

I agree, underage stories are VERY bad for a story site. My view is just, like most governments, that 16 is not underage.

 

[Cruel2BKind]

It would save a number of the occasional angry (probably with low vote attached) comments on a GM story that it really should be in this other category or that one based on a misunderstanding that GM trumps all other choices.

And I agree that the archive wouldn't have to be split up--that this isn't a showstopper explanation for anything.

But again, this isn't campaigning for the category changes--but I understand that nothing's going to change.

I've never gotten that. I actually get angrier when I read gay male stories that have women in them. If it's gay sci-fi, it belongs in gay, not sci-fi. Lets face it, it's a porn site. It doesn't matter if you're bumping uglies in a space ship, or with a vampire, or a ghost, or with a cousin. It matters if there are two men bumping uglies in a space ship, or if it's gay vampires, or a gay ghost, or a male cousin.

All of the main cats have to do with set dressings. The set of uglies that you are bumping still trumps all.

 

[Cruel2BKind]

I agree, underage stories are VERY bad for a story site. My view is just, like most governments, that 16 is not underage.

However, this is the internet.

Did you know that on old-fashioned planes, they would take on the drinking laws of whatever states they were passing over? No drinks over kentucky, two drinks over Washington, etc?

The internet doesn't work that way. You cannot draw country or state lines.

For instance, the age of consent is 14 in germany. But it's eighteen in the US. If they lower the age limit to fourteen, the site could get banned in parts of the US, or at least come under fire.

So your fantasies of watching middle school kids fuck is on hold, at least for now.

 

[isobelh]

However, this is the internet.

Did you know that on old-fashioned planes, they would take on the drinking laws of whatever states they were passing over? No drinks over kentucky, two drinks over Washington, etc?

The internet doesn't work that way. You cannot draw country or state lines.

For instance, the age of consent is 14 in germany. But it's eighteen in the US. If they lower the age limit to fourteen, the site could get banned in parts of the US, or at least come under fire.

So your fantasies of watching middle school kids fuck is on hold, at least for now.

The age of consent is not 18 in the US.

 

[oggbashan]

I remember when we were both under the legal age in the UK, and encounters when I was just over, and she was just under that age.

But I wouldn't want to re-live them, nor write about them. In retrospect they are embarrassing for both of us. We are different people 50 years later.

 

[isobelh]

I remember when we were both under the legal age in the UK, and encounters when I was just over, and she was just under that age.

But I wouldn't want to re-live them, nor write about them. In retrospect they are embarrassing for both of us. We are different people 50 years later.

I suppose most people's first time could have been better

Tho I chose a girl so it WAS better hehe.

But beautiful sex at 16 is perfectly possible, and personally I love stories of people getting off to a really good start in their sex lives, I think sometimes that can make a big difference ever after. Not that beautiful sex is a requirement for Literotica.

 

[Safe_Bet]

The age of consent is not 18 in the US.

But the age of consent in California, where the site owners live, IS 18. Just say'in.

Secondly, if you read the FAQ and the Writer's Guidelines, Laurel specifically addresses WHY the policy is as it is.

Lastly and personally, for me it's not even an age thing per se. It's more the age differential. If two 16 yo's are bidding each other in the real world that's one thing. If a 17 yo is getting boffed by a 50 yo, the "power differential" from the ages makes it less than consensual, IMO. Same thing goes in stories.

 

[Cruel2BKind]

I suppose most people's first time could have been better

Tho I chose a girl so it WAS better hehe.

But beautiful sex at 16 is perfectly possible, and personally I love stories of people getting off to a really good start in their sex lives, I think sometimes that can make a big difference ever after. Not that beautiful sex is a requirement for Literotica.

Its about the audience.

I know that thirteen year olds fuck. Kids even younger then that fuck. Its not about the realism. It's about the audience.

Maybe you wrote a sweet sweet romance between a sixteen year old and a fourteen year old because you thought it was beautiful, but the people reading your story will read it because to them, it's kiddy porn, and they are reading BECAUSE they are young, and not because it's good sex.

Do you really want to keep insisting that you should have the right to write underage sex when you could be fueling a pedophile or ten?

Really think about it.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Moving a story here and there would not be a problem but moving massive amounts of stories would. As for resubmitting to another category, I wonder what more of a load that would put on Laurel.

I'm all for more categories under GM & Lesbian and I agree they are needed, wholeheartedly.

Rather than adding new categories, what I'd really like to see is the ability to combine existing ones. When somebody posts a story about Xnorkwitz the Martian losing his virginity to his cousin Foonplyxyl and her Venusian boyfriend Kwyjibo, instead of having to make a value judgement about whether "first time" trumps "sci-fi" trumps "interracial" trumps "gay male" trumps "group sex", just tag it with each of those categories and let people use a checkbox scheme to filter what they see. I've seen other sites that handle it this way and it seems to work pretty well.

I don't know whether it'd be practical for Lit to do it this way - it'd take some programming work and a lot of effort in recategorising existing stories (would probably need to be crowd-sourced?) but it'd be nice. Also, I'd like a pony.

 

[PennLady]

Rather than adding new categories, what I'd really like to see is the ability to combine existing ones. When somebody posts a story about Xnorkwitz the Martian losing his virginity to his cousin Foonplyxyl and her Venusian boyfriend Kwyjibo, instead of having to make a value judgement about whether "first time" trumps "sci-fi" trumps "interracial" trumps "gay male" trumps "group sex", just tag it with each of those categories and let people use a checkbox scheme to filter what they see. I've seen other sites that handle it this way and it seems to work pretty well.

I don't know whether it'd be practical for Lit to do it this way - it'd take some programming work and a lot of effort in recategorising existing stories (would probably need to be crowd-sourced?) but it'd be nice. Also, I'd like a pony.

I know I've said this before, but the tags system at StoriesOnline makes this kind of thing so much easier. It's as you describe -- just click on the elements of your story and you don't have to be concerned if one aspect trumps another. I'd love to see something like that happen here, but I realize what kind of work it would take.

 

[PennLady]

Here's the Wiki page on ages of consent in the US and territories. Not saying it's definitive but it's a place to start.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_North_America

 

[Safe_Bet]

I know I've said this before, but the tags system at StoriesOnline makes this kind of thing so much easier. It's as you describe -- just click on the elements of your story and you don't have to be concerned if one aspect trumps another. I'd love to see something like that happen here, but I realize what kind of work it would take.

BUT (and it's a BIG butt)

The problem with the SOL tag system is that it's additive. If a story is tagged both bisexual and lesbian, and I click only on lesbian I'll still end up with a Bi story. And dammit I DON'T like bi chocolate in my lesbian peanut butter!!!

 

[Stella_Omega]

I suppose most people's first time could have been better

Tho I chose a girl so it WAS better hehe.

But beautiful sex at 16 is perfectly possible, and personally I love stories of people getting off to a really good start in their sex lives, I think sometimes that can make a big difference ever after. Not that beautiful sex is a requirement for Literotica.

If that's what you're looking for, try livejournal.com and dreamwidth.org

 

[MagicFlute]

To a large extent, it depends on the scotch.
To do that to a good Single Malt is a crime outrageous, to a japanese bland may be permitted (under some circumstances)

If it's made in Japan, by law it is not a scotch. Therefore the point is moot.

 

[Bramblethorn]

BUT (and it's a BIG butt)

The problem with the SOL tag system is that it's additive. If a story is tagged both bisexual and lesbian, and I click only on lesbian I'll still end up with a Bi story. And dammit I DON'T like bi chocolate in my lesbian peanut butter!!!

I've seen implementations elsewhere that had three options for each tag: "must have", must not have", and "don't care" (default), which would be my preferred option.

 

[PennLady]

BUT (and it's a BIG butt)

The problem with the SOL tag system is that it's additive. If a story is tagged both bisexual and lesbian, and I click only on lesbian I'll still end up with a Bi story. And dammit I DON'T like bi chocolate in my lesbian peanut butter!!!

Well, okay. Is it so much trouble just leave the story?

I don't read much on SOL, so I haven't tried to get stories there via tags or categories or whatever. but if you can see the tags, wouldn't you just not click if there was a tag you didn't want?

 

[Kurokami]

BUT (and it's a BIG butt)

The problem with the SOL tag system is that it's additive. If a story is tagged both bisexual and lesbian, and I click only on lesbian I'll still end up with a Bi story. And dammit I DON'T like bi chocolate in my lesbian peanut butter!!!

Wouldn't you get the same problem with the Lit system anyway? If I have a story that's mostly lesbian but has a bisexual or male sex scene in it in service of the plot or what have you, then isn't your peanut butter tainted anyway? Or does any scene like that immediately boot the story out of the lesbian category and into something else? I'm genuinely asking, here; this is something I'm likely to face once my newest story is complete.

Also, I get the feeling that Lesbian-brand peanut butter could outsell all competing brands preatty easily. Someone should get on that

 

[Safe_Bet]

Wouldn't you get the same problem with the Lit system anyway? If I have a story that's mostly lesbian but has a bisexual or male sex scene in it in service of the plot or what have you, then isn't your peanut butter tainted anyway? Or does any scene like that immediately boot the story out of the lesbian category and into something else? I'm genuinely asking, here; this is something I'm likely to face once my newest story is complete.

Also, I get the feeling that Lesbian-brand peanut butter could outsell all competing brands preatty easily. Someone should get on that

Yes you would get the same problem unless, as Bramblethorn said, there were at least two check boxes for each thing listed. That would seem to be WAY cumbersome.

As to your other question, for me, if there is ANY taint of dick in a story, it ain't lesbian. Lesbian mean FF, not FF plus maybe just a tiny bit of something else.

And yes, lesbian peanut butter would be popular, but all you wimpy ass men would need a butch chick to take the cap off for you!

 

[Kurokami]

And yes, lesbian peanut butter would be popular, but all you wimpy ass men would need a butch chick to take the cap off for you!

Way ahead of you. I call her my wife

 

[isobelh]

Its about the audience.

I know that thirteen year olds fuck. Kids even younger then that fuck. Its not about the realism. It's about the audience.

Maybe you wrote a sweet sweet romance between a sixteen year old and a fourteen year old because you thought it was beautiful, but the people reading your story will read it because to them, it's kiddy porn, and they are reading BECAUSE they are young, and not because it's good sex.

Do you really want to keep insisting that you should have the right to write underage sex when you could be fueling a pedophile or ten?

Really think about it.

I am not advocating 14. Why do you keep dragging 14 and underage into it? 16 is not underage or paedophile or kiddy porn.

As for the audience, what about the RAPE stories?

So 18 is not a moral position, clearly.

Nor is it a legal position, since story sites allowing far younger ages continue with no legal problems. Also criminal acts like rape and incest are obviously fine in STORIES. The law distinguishes between real life and fiction.

So I'm just inviting some clear thinking on the subject.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

A bi category would be great, yes. An underage cat simply isn't going to happen, so that's that. It's a moot point and best dropped. Laurel runs that show and what she says goes.

 

[isobelh]

But the age of consent in California, where the site owners live, IS 18. Just say'in.

Secondly, if you read the FAQ and the Writer's Guidelines, Laurel specifically addresses WHY the policy is as it is.

Lastly and personally, for me it's not even an age thing per se. It's more the age differential. If two 16 yo's are bidding each other in the real world that's one thing. If a 17 yo is getting boffed by a 50 yo, the "power differential" from the ages makes it less than consensual, IMO. Same thing goes in stories.

OK well I could understand how California state law got carried into the site then, maybe that's the reason.

Yeah I read the guidelines: "3. No sexual activity involving ... underage persons will be considered. For the purposes of this site, the minimum legal age is 18. This site does not publish stories, articles, essays, or other material supporting, encouraging, or defending child abuse and/or exploitation."

There you can see how underage/child gets translated into 18+. But most of the rest of the world (including most other US states) uses 16. And this is a global site of course.

I totally agree with you about the power/age differential thing. Such a policy would make sense if girls couldn't suddenly be vilely abused at 18! That IS damaging at any age, after all.

But if the age limit is mysteriously a moral decision then why not allow sweet sex at 16? Some sites do run policies like that.

 

[isobelh]

A bi category would be great, yes. An underage cat simply isn't going to happen, so that's that. It's a moot point and best dropped. Laurel runs that show and what she says goes.

Absolutely agree, underage would be a mistake. Globally speaking 16 is not underage though.

Laurel obviously can decide and will, but why should she not consider some reasoned discussion? People change their minds all the time.

 

[Safe_Bet]

Absolutely agree, underage would be a mistake. Globally speaking 16 is not underage though.

Laurel obviously can decide and will, but why should she not consider some reasoned discussion? People change their minds all the time.

You can always try. Send her a PM expressing your feelings.

Just understand that she has this conversation with somebody at least once a week and responds to a "Damn you Literotica for rejecting my under 18 story" post at least twice a year. She. HAS made herself clear on the subject repeatedly, so don't get your afore mentioned feelings hurt if she responds with a big 'ol no.

BTW, if it were up to me I'd toss the rape/nc crap out the door too!