TATU/Hayley Williams/The Neighbors

[RiversEdge2010]

Looking for an editor for some celebrity facial/BDSM fun and continuations of the Neighbors saga. Heavy domination, facials, BDSM, etc. The sooner the better please contact lemon the forum! Thanks guys! Preferring a female editor into these nitches! But am open minded.

 

[snoopercharmbrights]

Looking for an editor for some celebrity facial/BDSM fun and continuations of the Neighbors saga. Heavy domination, facials, BDSM, etc. The sooner the better please contact lemon the forum! Thanks guys! Preferring a female editor into these nitches! But am open minded.

I would normally offer advice about Personal Messages, but I won't in this case as I thoroughly disapprove of people who use the intellectual property of others to promote their own ends. The use of "Neighbours" characters is, to my mind, plagiarism, or in other words theft.

 

[Kurokami]

I would normally offer advice about Personal Messages, but I won't in this case as I thoroughly disapprove of people who use the intellectual property of others to promote their own ends. The use of "Neighbours" characters is, to my mind, plagiarism, or in other words theft.

It's called fan fiction. There's kind of a lot of it.

 

[RiversEdge2010]

Are you referring to theft regarding The Neighbors because that's my saga that I wrote all 5 parts too. Or if you're referring to the celebrity themed stories, it is a popular section here at Literotica and am well within my rights to write a fan fiction, please don't accuse me of plagiarism without warrant. Anyway, still looking for an editor guys and gals! Please message me!

 

[Bramblethorn]

Are you referring to theft regarding The Neighbors because that's my saga that I wrote all 5 parts too. Or if you're referring to the celebrity themed stories, it is a popular section here at Literotica and am well within my rights to write a fan fiction, please don't accuse me of plagiarism without warrant. Anyway, still looking for an editor guys and gals! Please message me!

I think s/he may have thought you were referring to the Australian soap 'Neighbours'.

 

[snoopercharmbrights]

I think s/he may have thought you were referring to the Australian soap 'Neighbours'.

Yes, that is correct..

 

[emap]

Fan fiction is nice in it let's people new to writing do so since there is an established character. There's no thinking involved on what the person does. That said, erotic fiction that does things with the character that is not seen or suggested is treading very far into plagiarism. Fan fict is the act of continuing the story, not rewriting it. So writing up a sex scene between Superman and Lois Lane, is continuing the story.

Putting say, Luke Skywalker and Princess Leia in bed together, having children, is stomping all over what Lucas has written. Besides grossing me out it would piss off Lucas and the only person close to him in going after fan fict is Rowling. Not that I blame either, they have a very well documented and incredibly popular set of characters. Any deviation of those characters no matter how little noticed can lower sales. Rowling so far only has Potter so hell don't write any Potter, Lucas has tons more things, but Star Wars is still his baby and heck we might even see episodes 7-9 next.

I'm not australian so havne't see this soap you are taking characters out of. However, I seriously doubt any country does soap's featuring things like bondage, sex slaves or gangbangs. Japan does feature movies and episodes of TV shows with that, but those are hentai. Granted it's easier to use an established character and make them do what you fantasize about. It is however, wrong on legal levels. Like, have you noticed how there are no rape stories in the celebrity section?

There's no rape in the celebrity section because it makes a known character or person a rape victim. They wouldn't like it and it won't be posted here because they have a clear case of a lawsuit for at the very least libel. At least if the character or actress enjoys the rape, which is the only way to have a rape posted to this website anyway. For a different legal reason but rather similar.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Disclaimer: fanfic is not really my thing, but my partner writes it and I beta, so I have some familiarity with it.

Fan fiction is nice in it let's people new to writing do so since there is an established character. There's no thinking involved on what the person does. That said, erotic fiction that does things with the character that is not seen or suggested is treading very far into plagiarism.

That's not what "plagiarism" means. A typical definition:

"using or closely imitating the language and thoughts of another author without authorization and the representation of that author's work as one's own, as by not crediting the original author"

No fanfic author is in a position to pass off the Harry Potter setting or characters as their own; everybody knows where they come from. And by definition, if you're doing things that are "not seen or suggested" in the original, you're not closely imitating, either. (You may be offending people's sense of canon, but that's a whole different thing.

I also disagree with the idea that "there's no thinking involved on what the person does". My partner didn't create Gene Hunt or Kate Beckett, but she put plenty of effort into figuring out how they'd interact if they were to meet. Some fanfic writers delight in taking minor characters and developing them in far more detail than they ever got in the source.

(This occasionally leads to hilarity - some fic writers wrote a great deal of material on the assumption that Blaise Zabini was female and white, and were horrified when Rowling established him to be male and black.)

Think about the writing process in an ongoing TV series. Most shows don't have the same writing team every time; a lot of episodes are written by people who didn't create the setting or the characters they're using. But they're still telling a story, and if they're any good at all, bringing something new to it. (George RR Martin is well known for disapproving of fan fiction... but one of his major TV writing credits is 'Beauty and the Beast', a retread of an old fairy tale.)

Putting say, Luke Skywalker and Princess Leia in bed together, having children, is stomping all over what Lucas has written.

Maybe not the best choice of example. Remember this scene?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hb1-56aC9YY

It's not hard to see where that was heading, before they found out they were related. Lucas originally intended for Luke and Leia to be the romantic interest in the story. But after ESB, he decided that Harrison Ford would work better in that role than Mark Hamill, so he retconned Luke and Leia into brother and sister.

Besides grossing me out it would piss off Lucas and the only person close to him in going after fan fict is Rowling.

I assume you're talking specifically about explicit fanfic there. (To clarify, Rowling has stated on the record that she's flattered by the existence of Harry Potter fanfic, as long as it's "not obscene", not commercial, and that she's appropriately acknowledged.)

The solution to stuff that grosses you out is not to read it. There are plenty of people revolted by the existence of ANY explicit stories, including pretty much the whole of Literotica, but I don't see the need to cater to it.

I'm not australian so havne't see this soap you are taking characters out of.

He's not. He's talking about a series that he wrote himself which happens to have a similar name.

Like, have you noticed how there are no rape stories in the celebrity section?

Erm... there are. For example:

http://www.literotica.com/s/posh-spice-retribution-ch-01
http://www.literotica.com/s/britney-learns-her-lesson

 

[Kurokami]

Erm... there are. For example:

http://www.literotica.com/s/posh-spice-retribution-ch-01
http://www.literotica.com/s/britney-learns-her-lesson

Judging from a couple of my stories that have gotten rejected recently, it seems like the rules regarding noncon celebrity works have been tightened up a bit. I doubt there'll be any new ones, and if there are, I might get a little twitchy about it

 

[RiversEdge2010]

Well as I've said, my stories the Neighbors is not based on a sitcom, its an original idea, and my celebrity based stories are consent-based, even if it is BDSM so I don't think I'll have a problem.

 

[snoopercharmbrights]

... Think about the writing process in an ongoing TV series. Most shows don't have the same writing team every time; a lot of episodes are written by people who didn't create the setting or the characters they're using. ...

The difference is that the script writing group are being paid by the people who own the intellectual property rights in those characters and situations, and therefore have permission to do so. The consistency of the characters' behaviour and reactions to situations is under the control of those owners.

As to celebrities, I have no problem with genuine celebrity fiction about real people in imaginary situations, e.g. Colin Powell having a Literotica relationship with Hilary Clinton. My problem (and that of all authors) is with fictional characters being distorted out of all recognition, eg Buffy having a Literotica relationship with Harry Potter (at his 18th birthday party, of course).

In my Delights series of 12 novels the biggest problem was keeping the various people portrayed true to their characters, and making their behaviour believable as they grew older (and in some cases grew up). Some outsider stealing those characters will almost certainly distort them away from my vision, which took a great deal of painstaking work to keep consistent.

 

[Bramblethorn]

The difference is that the script writing group are being paid by the people who own the intellectual property rights in those characters and situations, and therefore have permission to do so. The consistency of the characters' behaviour and reactions to situations is under the control of those owners.

There's certainly a question of intellectual property, if you're making money out of somebody else's creation and/or doing something that hurts its value. I am generally against those things, with fair-use exceptions.

But that's quite distinct from the question of whether fanfic is a creative activity (cf the remark that "There's no thinking involved on what the person does", which is what I was responding to there). If you're writing imaginative new stories with somebody else's characters, then that's a creative act, and it doesn't become any less creative just because you're not getting paid for it or don't have permission to do it.

It might be illegal and/or morally wrong, but that's not the same thing. (And while I do believe it's wrong to take money out of the creator's pocket, I am not convinced that it's wrong merely to offend their sensibilities.)

 

[Kurokami]

The difference is that the script writing group are being paid by the people who own the intellectual property rights in those characters and situations, and therefore have permission to do so. The consistency of the characters' behaviour and reactions to situations is under the control of those owners.

Which is only really the case if the people who own the property rights are the same ones who originally created it, which isn't always the case. Just look to Alan Moore and the film versions of his graphic novels, not to mention the new Watchmen comic coming out.

As to celebrities, I have no problem with genuine celebrity fiction about real people in imaginary situations, e.g. Colin Powell having a Literotica relationship with Hilary Clinton. My problem (and that of all authors) is with fictional characters being distorted out of all recognition, eg Buffy having a Literotica relationship with Harry Potter (at his 18th birthday party, of course).

In my Delights series of 12 novels the biggest problem was keeping the various people portrayed true to their characters, and making their behaviour believable as they grew older (and in some cases grew up). Some outsider stealing those characters will almost certainly distort them away from my vision, which took a great deal of painstaking work to keep consistent.

Why don't you take issue with real people having their personalities distorted in fiction, only fictional characters? What's the difference? (Aside from the issue of reality, of course)

Also, just because you've written a character in a certain way doesn't automatically mean that the reader will interpret them that way. Once the work is out there, how people read it isn't under your control. You and I could have entirely different ideas of what motivates a particular person or character. If I want to write about my interpretation, there's no reason that couldn't be an interesting and worthwhile story on its own, whether it's what the author intends or not.

That said, there is a difference between alternative character interpretations and just plain being out of character (though there's no reason that can't be fun either.) Yes, sometimes a character can become warped in a distracting manner, but the whole point of fan fiction is to see something new from established characters or worlds: why on earth would I want to read something where all the characters are exactly the same? I've got the original author's work if I want to see that.

 

[elfin_odalisque]

Well as I've said, my stories the Neighbors is not based on a sitcom, its an original idea, and my celebrity based stories are consent-based, even if it is BDSM so I don't think I'll have a problem.

I think you should re-examine your logic. If you use characters, whether real or fictional, that are trademarked or copyrighted, you are committing an illegal act. This is not a question of plagiarism or intellectual property rights - just commercial law.

The owners don't bother to prosecute the falsely named 'fan fiction' because they are dealing with people of straw and they prefer not to give the puff of publicity to the theft.

If you read Lit's very carefully phrased disclaimer on the Celebrity site, it doesn't justify breaching commercial law but clearly explains the legality of parody in mocking celebrities.

If you want to use Bart Simpson, House or Lady Gaga, for example, in a story you need permission. Fan fiction, though totally illegal, flies under the radar but that doesn't legitimize it.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I think you should re-examine your logic. If you use characters, whether real or fictional, that are trademarked or copyrighted, you are committing an illegal act. This is not a question of plagiarism or intellectual property rights - just commercial law.

This has been said a couple of times already, but his "Neighbors" story is not using anybody else's characters.

And no, using trademarked/copyrighted characters is not ipso facto illegal. It certainly CAN be illegal depending on how you handle it, but neither trademark nor copyright law provide a blanket ban on using the property in question.

The owners don't bother to prosecute the falsely named 'fan fiction' because they are dealing with people of straw and they prefer not to give the puff of publicity to the theft.

Or in many cases because they don't have a problem with it. Authors are not of a single mind on this subject; JK Rowling and several other big names have made it clear that they're quite OK with some types of fanfic. (However, they generally avoid reading it themselves, for legal reasons - MZB ran into trouble that way.)

If you want to use Bart Simpson, House or Lady Gaga, for example, in a story you need permission. Fan fiction, though totally illegal, flies under the radar but that doesn't legitimize it.

Citation needed.

Copyright law has exemptions for "fair use", which is fuzzily defined - if you want to know exactly what constitutes fair use, you have to look at how courts have interpreted the concept. AFAIK there's no legal precedent that would support the claim that fanfic is "totally illegal", and at least one in the other direction. See the discussion here relating to "The Wind Done Gone": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_issues_with_fan_fiction

Several major authors have written what is essentially pro-grade fanfic; see Kim Newman's "Anno Dracula" series or Philip José Farmer's "Wold Newton" universe. Their stories use a great many borrowed characters - some real, some from public-domain works, and some who are still in copyright. Neither of those authors are exactly "under the radar" (Anno Dracula won several awards) but AFAIK nobody's ever attempted to sue them for copyright infringement. Any such suit would be unlikely to succeed, because the works are transformative.

Given that commercial use is one of the elements considered in determining "fair use", it follows that non-commercial fanfic is better-protected than these commercial works.

So "totally illegal" is simply not true. Some fanfic is illegal, certainly, but by no means all.

 

[RiversEdge2010]

I appreciate everyone's point of view, but this is not why I started this thread. I am merely looking for an editor for my stories which I am well allowed to write, thank you.

 

[Kurokami]

I appreciate everyone's point of view, but this is not why I started this thread. I am merely looking for an editor for my stories which I am well allowed to write, thank you.

Nobody can control the direction these threads take, dude.

 

[snoopercharmbrights]

I appreciate everyone's point of view, but this is not why I started this thread. I am merely looking for an editor for my stories which I am well allowed to write, thank you.

Sorry, that's mostly my fault.