Texas should be proud and this is why the death penalty is wrong

[koalabear]

And here I thought it was my cutting wit.

No comment.

 

[Disgustipated]

Is there a more cowardly act on a forum like this than putting someone on ignore and then continuing to argue with them? He's afraid of being proved wrong, like miles. Absolute cowardice. What else can you call it?

It's what he's been reduce to.

 

[richard_daily]

I'll give vette one thing....he's right. It is the voters, they want to pay for it and live with arbitrary executions on their conscience....democracy is a bitch too.

The whole "right's for criminals" is bullshit though imo.

Lock them in a box and toss the key...slip them a bowl of gruel each day and a glass of water. Tax payers shouldn't be buying criminals college educations, health care, cable TV and internet either. You know....shit they don't even get.

So there should be no attempts at rehabilitation?

People aren't worthy of earning redemption?

Let's say an under-privilidged kid joins a gang at the age of 15, commits a murder of another gang member at the age of 17, and gets 25 to life for the killing.

Should they be allowed to attempt to redeem themselves, or should no quarter be given, and they should be locked up for the rest of their lives without any chance of giving something back to the community?

 

[Peregrinator]

It's what he's been reduce to.

It's like he saw miles do it and thought, "Hey! What a great idea! I can hide from people and talk shit about them like a craven pussy!"

 

[Peregrinator]

So there should be no attempts at rehabilitation?

People aren't worthy of earning redemption?

Let's say an under-privilidged kid joins a gang at the age of 15, commits a murder of another gang member at the age of 17, and gets 25 to life for the killing.

Should they be allowed to attempt to redeem themselves, or should no quarter be given, and they should be locked up for the rest of their lives without any chance of giving something back to the community?

I'd say get them as far as a high school diploma, like everyone else. If they want more, let them earn it, like everyone else.

 

[Sean]

Interesting how the limited government types all want the gubmint to have the ultimate power over its citizens.

 

[Sean Renaud]

I'd say get them as far as a high school diploma, like everyone else. If they want more, let them earn it, like everyone else.

Honestly if that's as far as you intend to carry them you should save everybody the energy and execute em or at least instead of releasing them at the end of their sentence just move em someplace more comfortable. They aren't going to be self-sufficient and they will commit a new crime.

 

[pierrelarue161]

Execute the major crooks (serial killers and politicians). Spare everyone else.

 

[Frizzle_Fry]

So there should be no attempts at rehabilitation?

People aren't worthy of earning redemption?

Let's say an under-privilidged kid joins a gang at the age of 15, commits a murder of another gang member at the age of 17, and gets 25 to life for the killing.

Should they be allowed to attempt to redeem themselves, or should no quarter be given, and they should be locked up for the rest of their lives without any chance of giving something back to the community?

I'm sorry but I just don't think it's right that murderers rapist and pedo's get better perks from the gov. than the tax payer.

Besides what does having a college degree do with making sure they don't kill or rape again? Hell that's an incentive to go to prison...why sink your ass in debt or go to the military to get a GI bill? Just go rob a bank and you get a freebie

I would agree with perg....get them their GED so they are on the same level as your average person.

I also think the non violent criminals should get rehab....but the violent offenders??? fuck them man....

 

[unregistered]

 

[cjh]

i've been to medium- and maximum-security federal prisons and state prisons in a couple of states. none of them are places you'd want to be. if i had to choose, though, i'd choose a federal prison.

if you are a guard, you want prisoners to stay occupied. numb them with TV instead of giving them lots of time to focus on finding trouble. keep their minds occupied with constructive stuff, not trouble, and give them a sense of worth rather than worthlessness.

to the extent you can rehabilitate them--and some you can--you come out ahead.

 

[richard_daily]

I'm sorry but I just don't think it's right that murderers rapist and pedo's get better perks from the gov. than the tax payer.

Besides what does having a college degree do with making sure they don't kill or rape again? Hell that's an incentive to go to prison...why sink your ass in debt or go to the military to get a GI bill? Just go rob a bank and you get a freebie

I would agree with perg....get them their GED so they are on the same level as your average person.

I also think the non violent criminals should get rehab....but the violent offenders??? fuck them man....

What would your freedom be worth to you?

Would you trade it for a free college degree?

I think you're making a mistake in thinking of these things as "freebies". They are investments... and if you want to truly make someone pay for the crimes they have committed, educating them is certainly a way to facilitate them.

Someone with a low education, who has had low amounts of opportunities, doesn't get why the crimes they committed are horrible, because those may just be simple facts of life for them.

Once people see that there is something else out there in the world, that's when they begin to realize the correlation between the damage that they've done, and begin to take personal responsibility and account for their crimes.

I don't ever see education as a bad thing... but perhaps that's just me.

 

[unregistered]

 

[warrior queen]

You can't change what has already occurred - some innocent people have been wrongly executed.
But you can change what happens from here onwards.... All death penalty cases prior to DNA or other totally conclusive proof should be immediately commuted to life sentences.
Only those cases where there is total and undeniable scientific proof of guilt (perhaps reviewed by an independent panel of scientists?) should proceed to death penalty phase.

 

[Frizzle_Fry]

What would your freedom be worth to you?

Would you trade it for a free college degree?

I joined the army tyvm. So yes I did trade it for a college degree.

I think you're making a mistake in thinking of these things as "freebies". They are investments...

Really, is that like when the US gov "invest" money by buying up failed companies? Stupid fucking investment. Further more why are we investing in violent offenders and not the kids who WANT to go to school? Shouldn't the non criminal, academic performers get first dibbs on free school?

and if you want to truly make someone pay for the crimes they have committed, educating them is certainly a way to facilitate them.

Right....that's why people pay many thousands to get their education. Because it's such a horrid punishment

Someone with a low education, who has had low amounts of opportunities, doesn't get why the crimes they committed are horrible, because those may just be simple facts of life for them.

I know plenty of poor people who don't commit violent crimes....and know of a few rich ones who do.

Being poor and uneducated is not an excuse to commit a violent crime.

Once people see that there is something else out there in the world, that's when they begin to realize the correlation between the damage that they've done, and begin to take personal responsibility and account for their crimes.

Bullshit....there is nothing to support college degree = won't rape/murder again. Remember I am talking about VIOLENT offenders. Not con artist and pot dealers.

I don't ever see education as a bad thing... but perhaps that's just me.

Me neither....but I think the 18 y/o kid who finished high school with a 3.3 gpa that wasn't quite good enough to get a full ride, should go to school on the tax payer dime long before Mr. Rapist....THAT would be a GOOD investment.

 

[Disgustipated]

Thanks for quoting the silly Moon Barker, I have him on Iggy because he says one thing and does another. I can't abide that kind of a character flaw. I have absolutely no fear of any argument he's capable of making, or anything else he can whine about. I'm punishing him for being a disgrace to manhood everywhere, and for his total lack of integrity. He knows what I'm talking about, and knows I will not reveal a private communication to expose it as well. I will have nothing further to do with this poster.

Other opponents I post with here, no matter our ideological differences, or the level of rancor between us, have not in my mind reduced themselves to such levels. That is all I will have to say on the matter.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-21_jyYvyZxo/T16-fJ9X6oI/AAAAAAAADqI/HaJaKxYuxfg/s1600/themoreyouknow.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-IfHx0vWA0m4/TcC7WW-T9lI/AAAAAAAAAIU/HJx_C1P8z7c/s1600/1238993754704.jpg

 

[richard_daily]

... I have him on Iggy because he says one thing and does another. I can't abide that kind of a character flaw.

hahahahahahahahahah

 

[richard_daily]

I joined the army tyvm. So yes I did trade it for a college degree.

No you didn't... you lent yourself somewhere that you got paid and then got a stipend on top of it... hardly a comparable thing... although for many people, jail or the military are two of the only options, but it doesn't sound like you were of so little opportunity.

Really, is that like when the US gov "invest" money by buying up failed companies? Stupid fucking investment. Further more why are we investing in violent offenders and not the kids who WANT to go to school? Shouldn't the non criminal, academic performers get first dibbs on free school?

See, the fact that you're paroting right wing talking points lessens that value of discussing something with you. Lose the moronic dittoheading, and you'll go a lot further.

I do agree with you that we should be investing more into schools though, at least we agree there.

I know plenty of poor people who don't commit violent crimes....and know of a few rich ones who do.

Being poor and uneducated is not an excuse to commit a violent crime.

How many poor people do you actually know?

Where did they grow up?

Bullshit....there is nothing to support college degree = won't rape/murder again. Remember I am talking about VIOLENT offenders. Not con artist and pot dealers.

I didn't say a college degree, I said education. That said, if someone does their time, do they deserve to exist in the outside world? Do they deserve a chance?

Let's say that we're talking about property crimes... robbery, etc... non-violent offenses. Do those people deserve a second chance?

Could there ever be extenuating circumstance that gave them less opportunity than you had?

Think about it for a minute.

 

[Joeybagadonuts]

I'll give vette one thing....he's right. It is the voters, they want to pay for it and live with arbitrary executions on their conscience....democracy is a bitch too.

The whole "right's for criminals" is bullshit though imo.

Lock them in a box and toss the key...slip them a bowl of gruel each day and a glass of water. Tax payers shouldn't be buying criminals college educations, health care, cable TV and internet either. You know....shit they don't even get.

The real reason that prisoners are getting any privileges has nothing to do with liberalism. They are kept busy so that they don't riot and kill everyone who works to keep them incarcerated so that they won't harm you.

 

[Frizzle_Fry]

No you didn't... you lent yourself somewhere that you got paid and then got a stipend on top of it... hardly a comparable thing... although for many people, jail or the military are two of the only options, but it doesn't sound like you were of so little opportunity.

No I wasn't of little oppertunity. But I did sign my life over to the gov. there is no freedom in the military, you do what they say or you go to prison.

The GI bill is not a stipend, you pay into it.

See, the fact that you're paroting right wing talking points lessens that value of discussing something with you. Lose the moronic dittoheading, and you'll go a lot further.

Talking point? It's a fact, investing in failed companies is as stupid of an investment as giving violent offenders a BA/BS.

I do agree with you that we should be investing more into schools though, at least we agree there.

Higher education institution are some of wealthiest organizations on the planet...why do we need to invest more in them??

We need to invest in the STUDENTS, not the corrupt admin looking to soak up more funding to line their pockets with.

How many poor people do you actually know?

Where did they grow up?

Can't prove any of it...whats the point? I know quite a few, they come from various places.

I didn't say a college degree, I said education. That said, if someone does their time, do they deserve to exist in the outside world? Do they deserve a chance?

I did say a degree, that's what this whole discussion has been about. Why are rapist and murderers up for a free BA/BS with good behavior while lil Johnny has to cough up thousands? It's not right.

I don't think murderers/rapist do....if convicted they should be locked away in some hell hole made to work hard labor either until exonerated or dead. Don't want to suffer that fate? Don't murder/rape/molest

Let's say that we're talking about property crimes... robbery, etc... non-violent offenses. Do those people deserve a second chance?

Technically robbery is a violent crime....theft/ larceny is not.

Regardless, I think the non violent offenders yes have a very real chance at rehabilitation and a lot of the "violent" offenders that didn't actually hurt anyone as well.

Could there ever be extenuating circumstance that gave them less opportunity than you had?

Think about it for a minute.

Yea on the petty shit...no problem, do a lil time/rehab and try again.

But if you murder/rape/molest kids etc....there are no extenuating circumstances for that. There is no lack of opportunity that justifies murder/rape...none.

 

[Frizzle_Fry]

The real reason that prisoners are getting any privileges has nothing to do with liberalism. They are kept busy so that they don't riot and kill everyone who works to keep them incarcerated so that they won't harm you.

Never said it had anything to do with liberalism....I don't buy into partisan hack bullshit. I just don't think Mr. Rapist should get a free MBA, while a hard working kid who hasn't done anything but the right things is made to go thousands into debt.

What was wrong with picking up trash? Making big rocks into little ones? Filling pot holes and digging ditches?

 

[Joeybagadonuts]

Never said it had anything to do with liberalism....I don't buy into partisan hack bullshit. I just don't think Mr. Rapist should get a free MBA, while a hard working kid who hasn't done anything but the right things is made to go thousands into debt.

What was wrong with picking up trash? Making big rocks into little ones? Filling pot holes and digging ditches?

Where I live, they do pick up trash and make licence plates.

It's been my experience that most people who talk about crime and incarceration don't have any real knowledge of the problems. You, me and everyone else should expect the government to protect citizens from criminal behavior, however ignoring the cost doesn't make that problem go away.

 

[Frizzle_Fry]

Where I live, they do pick up trash and make licence plates.

It's been my experience that most people who talk about crime and incarceration don't have any real knowledge of the problems. You, me and everyone else should expect the government to protect citizens from criminal behavior, however ignoring the cost doesn't make that problem go away.

True...and that cost would be so greatly reduced if we would just quit throwing people in prison for victimless crimes.

However I still don't think the real bad juju (rapist/murderers) should be given a plethora of perks law abiding citizens don't get.

 

[Joeybagadonuts]

True...and that cost would be so greatly reduced if we would just quit throwing people in prison for victimless crimes.

However I still don't think the real bad juju (rapist/murderers) should be given a plethora of perks law abiding citizens don't get.

well, we agree that taxpayer money is wasted on victimless crimes.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

So there should be no attempts at rehabilitation?

People aren't worthy of earning redemption?

Let's say an under-privilidged kid joins a gang at the age of 15, commits a murder of another gang member at the age of 17, and gets 25 to life for the killing.

Should they be allowed to attempt to redeem themselves, or should no quarter be given, and they should be locked up for the rest of their lives without any chance of giving something back to the community?

A century ago Florida hanged kid felons. Northern reform schools released them, they came South to do the same deeds, and we hoisted them high. And when our judges became to fond of Nigga felons, and spread mercy like manure, we hanged the Niggaz. To remove the temptation.