30 years for marriage equality?

[TexasWife25]

So, another user posted this in a thread about POTUS coming out in support of marriage equality.

People are more likely to make an effort to vote to deny people rights.
I think Obamas's position will likely cost him the election. Romney is not only dead set against same sex marriage, he's even against same sex civil unions and wants to codify that in the US Constitution.
I see conservatives who might not have voted because he isn't socially conservative enough coming out to vote solely because of Obama's stance, for fear he'll appoint SCOTUS judges who will recognize prohibiting it is unconstitutional.
I think Romney will win, will get a constitutional amendment to reflect his position about homosexuals and many marriages will become null.
It'll be another 20-30 years before the amendment is repealed and homosexuals can have the same rights as heterosexuals.

It really took me aback. Yes I was aware that Romney has said he supports a Constitutional amendment against gay marriage, however I suppose I just hadn't thought of it in this context before. Wondering if this is how the GBLT community is viewing the upcoming election.

 

[Socal22]

I think Obama was going to get voted out even before he came out in made his stance. I do not think a constitutional amendment will pass due to the magnitude of what it takes to get an amendment passed.

 

[Stella_Omega]

If Romney becomes POTUS there will be violence.

It will come from the newly empowered right wing who will feel like it's okay to kill all the people that have spoken up and endangered their precious privilege.

On the other hand, Obama is tapping into the manymany minorities who know damn well what will happen to them if Romney wins. Like.. women, for instance, and Hispanics, and poor blacks.

oh yeah, and GLBT.

United by fear of the white Xtian rightwing majority, those minorities become a great big majority.

 

[RjThoughts]

If Romney becomes POTUS there will be violence.

It will come from the newly empowered right wing who will feel like it's okay to kill all the people that have spoken up and endangered their precious privilege.

On the other hand, Obama is tapping into the manymany minorities who know damn well what will happen to them if Romney wins. Like.. women, for instance, and Hispanics, and poor blacks.

oh yeah, and GLBT.

United by fear of the white Xtian rightwing majority, those minorities become a great big majority.

That majority is on paper ONLY! If the minorities united, they would be the majority. Problem is, what would unite them?

 

[Aviator1976]

If Romney becomes POTUS there will be violence.

It will come from the newly empowered right wing who will feel like it's okay to kill all the people that have spoken up and endangered their precious privilege.

On the other hand, Obama is tapping into the manymany minorities who know damn well what will happen to them if Romney wins. Like.. women, for instance, and Hispanics, and poor blacks.

oh yeah, and GLBT.

United by fear of the white Xtian rightwing majority, those minorities become a great big majority.

Wow...spend much time in the real world?

There is already violence. There is already fear. There is already hatred. There is already intolerance. Those are all part of the human condition and are not limited to any subset or group.

Your intolerance and hatred for the "Xtian right wing majority" is as obvious as the intolerance you accuse them of.

Rhetoric like yours that is meant to inspire fear does nothing to help the situation. You can continue to let yourself be defined solely by your sexuality, I will not. There is so much more that is wrong with this country that playing on irrational fears is a waste of time.

 

[PressNightly]

Wow...spend much time in the real world?

There is already violence. There is already fear. There is already hatred. There is already intolerance. Those are all part of the human condition and are not limited to any subset or group.

Your intolerance and hatred for the "Xtian right wing majority" is as obvious as the intolerance you accuse them of.

Rhetoric like yours that is meant to inspire fear does nothing to help the situation. You can continue to let yourself be defined solely by your sexuality, I will not. There is so much more that is wrong with this country that playing on irrational fears is a waste of time.

Romney is a self proclaimed devout mormon.

-Unitll 1969 (when they were forced by federal law and popular sentiment) the official position of the Mormon church was that black people did not have souls and were not human.

-The Mormon church has stated on several occasions (if you want to be tedious I can look up the details for you) that homosexuality is immoral and should be outlawed in the US. Some members have gone so far as to quote scripture that people of alternate sexuality deserve to die at the governments hands for their lifestyle.

-Thomas Jefferson wrote of a necessity in government for the separation of church and state in order to have true civil liberty. He wrote it in the delclaration of independence and in the Virginia Statute on Religious Freedoms (written to protect one christian group from another).

-This is not a Christian Nation! Per the very first treaty we ever signed with a foreign power, Tripoli (the Barbary Pirates), I quote (yes quote, please read this document) "As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion".

There is already violence. There is already fear. There is already hatred.

Yes there is, there was violence, intolerance and hatred during and before the civil war, it was there during the indian genocide, it was there during the civil rights movement, it was there during the dozen or so wars that we have fought in, it goes way back to the crusades and beyond. Although at it's core flawed, the government of the United States of America was created to ensure a land where any man could make his mark regardless of color, creed, or ancestry. We have forgotten this lesson in a world populated by Liberty Universities and Religious lobbies, and Focus on the Families!

Your intolerance and hatred for the "Xtian right wing majority" is as obvious as the intolerance you accuse them of.

I fucking hate the christian right wing majority, for one simple reason. They seem to have forgotten that Freedom Of Religion is Freedom From Religion! I listen to conservative talk radio during the day and read liberal media at night, and I consider my self a political conscientious objector. I can't understand how there are two parties in this country one who believes in social freedom and big government and one that believes in small government and supernatural morality, the 2 ideas are each party expouses are logically opposed.

My views about religion in politics are in no way influenced by the fact that I was raped by a catholic priest, I assure you. I hate religion in politics for the exact same reason that Ben Franklin, Tommy Jefferson, and George Washington did.... they bring nothing useful to the national table.

Religion has no place in the government of the USA, and every single one of the arguments against same sex marriage are religious in nature.

"Lighthouses are infinitely more useful than churches." - Benjamin Franklin

 

[Lit_Wetawd]

How ironic a document written to ensure our freedoms will be subverted to steal them away.

 

[Aviator1976]

Romney is a self proclaimed devout mormon.

-Unitll 1969 (when they were forced by federal law and popular sentiment) the official position of the Mormon church was that black people did not have souls and were not human.

-The Mormon church has stated on several occasions (if you want to be tedious I can look up the details for you) that homosexuality is immoral and should be outlawed in the US. Some members have gone so far as to quote scripture that people of alternate sexuality deserve to die at the governments hands for their lifestyle.

-Thomas Jefferson wrote of a necessity in government for the separation of church and state in order to have true civil liberty. He wrote it in the delclaration of independence and in the Virginia Statute on Religious Freedoms (written to protect one christian group from another).

-This is not a Christian Nation! Per the very first treaty we ever signed with a foreign power, Tripoli (the Barbary Pirates), I quote (yes quote, please read this document) "As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion".



Yes there is, there was violence, intolerance and hatred during and before the civil war, it was there during the indian genocide, it was there during the civil rights movement, it was there during the dozen or so wars that we have fought in, it goes way back to the crusades and beyond. Although at it's core flawed, the government of the United States of America was created to ensure a land where any man could make his mark regardless of color, creed, or ancestry. We have forgotten this lesson in a world populated by Liberty Universities and Religious lobbies, and Focus on the Families!




I fucking hate the christian right wing majority, for one simple reason. They seem to have forgotten that Freedom Of Religion is Freedom From Religion! I listen to conservative talk radio during the day and read liberal media at night, and I consider my self a political conscientious objector. I can't understand how there are two parties in this country one who believes in social freedom and big government and one that believes in small government and supernatural morality, the 2 ideas are each party expouses are logically opposed.

My views about religion in politics are in no way influenced by the fact that I was raped by a catholic priest, I assure you. I hate religion in politics for the exact same reason that Ben Franklin, Tommy Jefferson, and George Washington did.... they bring nothing useful to the national table.

Religion has no place in the government of the USA, and every single one of the arguments against same sex marriage are religious in nature.

"Lighthouses are infinitely more useful than churches." - Benjamin Franklin

It is obvious we will never find agreement on this issue, so it would be unproductive to go any further.

I would like to note that the hate comes from your side too, so there is a lot of the pot calling the kettle black. You chastise one side for their supposed hate and oppression, yet your views are just as full of that hate and oppression.

You actually "fucking hate" a group of people because their opinion differs from yours. That is the epitome of intolerance.

 

[yevkassem72]

Romney sucks ass, but his election wouldn't lead to lynching, just as Obama's didn't lead to gulags. The rhetoric is far overblown. No, the steady increase in the size and role of government will march on with either guy, the one a Mormon centrist who doesn't 100% subscribe to anything and is really a technocrat enamored of "making the trains run on time".....the other, a radical, left-wing former community organizer who has at least partially sold out his various constituencies just to hold onto power. In other words, they're politicians and they will both boil us alive slowly rather than quickly, too slowly for us to get out of the bathtub in time to save ourselves. That's my take on it. A further slow erosion of our liberty. The death of freedom on the installment plan.

Chill, folks. Our freedoms are dying, less, but our freedom will end, not with a bang, but with a whimper. Romney's election or Obama's re-election won't make a difference worth a hill of beans.

 

[Safe_Bet]

It is obvious we will never find agreement on this issue, so it would be unproductive to go any further.

I would like to note that the hate comes from your side too, so there is a lot of the pot calling the kettle black. You chastise one side for their supposed hate and oppression, yet your views are just as full of that hate and oppression.

You actually "fucking hate" a group of people because their opinion differs from yours. That is the epitome of intolerance.

It does does it?

When was the last time a bunch of homos waved "God Hates Heteros" signs around a soldiers funeral? When was the last nationally televised and acclaimed "bible burning"? When was the last "Burning Star of David" torched of in front of some black man's house or when was the last time a fucking hurricane was blamed on Republicans by some "fundy" agnostic televangelist?

Put down the bible and step away from the teapot, dude.

 

[TexasWife25]

I admit, when thinking of Romney v Obama, my concerns are much closer to home. Things like Romney call to raise taxes on the middle class, the deficit, etc. While I support marriage equality, it wasnt until someone pointed out Romney's stance on the amendment that I wondered how the GBLT community views the upcoming election. So many are already calling it a make or break election.

 

[ottohauser1977]

Romney sucks ass, but his election wouldn't lead to lynching, just as Obama's didn't lead to gulags. The rhetoric is far overblown. No, the steady increase in the size and role of government will march on with either guy, the one a Mormon centrist who doesn't 100% subscribe to anything and is really a technocrat enamored of "making the trains run on time".....the other, a radical, left-wing former community organizer who has at least partially sold out his various constituencies just to hold onto power. In other words, they're politicians and they will both boil us alive slowly rather than quickly, too slowly for us to get out of the bathtub in time to save ourselves. That's my take on it. A further slow erosion of our liberty. The death of freedom on the installment plan.

Chill, folks. Our freedoms are dying, less, but our freedom will end, not with a bang, but with a whimper. Romney's election or Obama's re-election won't make a difference worth a hill of beans.

Okay, yes, I can see where you think that, and Obama has been a bit of a smug jerk. However, I can't vote for Romney. He's even worse. Completely bland and unprincipled. No one knows what he really believes. He has no core convictions, right, left, or center. So he'll toe the Party line as long as he must and screw us all over in the process. No thanks. Sticking with the O man. I don't like him, but he's all we got.

And, yes, there are civil liberties issues to take Obama to task for, but they're not half the draconian nightmare of an Erich Honecker. When you've lived in a police state, you know the fucking difference.

 

[RjThoughts]

It is obvious we will never find agreement on this issue, so it would be unproductive to go any further.

I would like to note that the hate comes from your side too, so there is a lot of the pot calling the kettle black. You chastise one side for their supposed hate and oppression, yet your views are just as full of that hate and oppression.

You actually "fucking hate" a group of people because their opinion differs from yours. That is the epitome of intolerance.

Press comes with facts, and you come with vulgarity-filled opinions. Sort of sums up one ENTIRE side of the debate: "Well, the Bible says so, so fuck off homos!"

 

[Stella_Omega]

That majority is on paper ONLY! If the minorities united, they would be the majority. Problem is, what would unite them?

the antagonism that the right wing so enthusiastically demonstrates is doing a fine job of it. Every minority-- including the 52% minority that is women-- is mobilising to preserve whatever civil rights they have.

I would like to note that the hate comes from your side too, so there is a lot of the pot calling the kettle black. You chastise one side for their supposed hate and oppression, yet your views are just as full of that hate and oppression.

Nope. His views do NOT include the view that he has the right to pass laws that infringe on other people's civil rights. That's what "oppression" is.


Religion is NOT law.

 

[korizon]

If Romney becomes POTUS there will be violence.

Quite possible - entitled people don't take it very well when their handouts are reduced. Hopefully that happens very soon (the handouts being reduced, not the violence).

It will come from the newly empowered right wing who will feel like it's okay to kill all the people that have spoken up and endangered their precious privilege.

On the other hand, Obama is tapping into the manymany minorities who know damn well what will happen to them if Romney wins. Like.. women, for instance, and Hispanics, and poor blacks.

oh yeah, and GLBT.

United by fear of the white Xtian rightwing majority, those minorities become a great big majority.

Typical liberal point of view: ostensibly strive for tolerance while viciously attacking anyone who might disagree with you.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Typical liberal point of view: ostensibly strive for tolerance while viciously attacking anyone who might disagree with you.

You think that was a vicious attack? Really?

 

[sereneone4u]

If Romney becomes POTUS there will be violence.

It will come from the newly empowered right wing who will feel like it's okay to kill all the people that have spoken up and endangered their precious privilege.

On the other hand, Obama is tapping into the manymany minorities who know damn well what will happen to them if Romney wins. Like.. women, for instance, and Hispanics, and poor blacks.

oh yeah, and GLBT.

United by fear of the white Xtian rightwing majority, those minorities become a great big majority.

and the disabled and the people who love them.

 

[Fish_Tales]

and the disabled and the people who love them.

Yep...just yep

 

[yevkassem72]

Okay, yes, I can see where you think that, and Obama has been a bit of a smug jerk. However, I can't vote for Romney. He's even worse. Completely bland and unprincipled. No one knows what he really believes. He has no core convictions, right, left, or center. So he'll toe the Party line as long as he must and screw us all over in the process. No thanks. Sticking with the O man. I don't like him, but he's all we got.

And, yes, there are civil liberties issues to take Obama to task for, but they're not half the draconian nightmare of an Erich Honecker. When you've lived in a police state, you know the fucking difference.

I still maintain that Romney's election won't amount to a hill of beans. The slow decline of this nation will continue under him, just as it would under Obama. Quite frankly, we're all screwed.

I concede your negative experience of Honecker, but there are degrees of tyranny. Communism is just the most extreme. Social democracy can be quite tyrannical in its own way and is ultimately doomed by its own inefficiency. Ask anyone who has dealt with the IRS or other tax collectors and they will tell you what a nightmare the taxman under a democratic form of government can be. Not the Stasi, I grant you, but it probably feels that way for the victims of the jackbooted thugs of Uncle Sam or Her Majesty's Government.

Or, if you're me, trying dealing with ICE. Yeah, those dumb-ass goons made my life a living hell, courtesy of my ex-wife who reported me to them. Sent my ass back to Lebanon, which is no session of catechism, I can tell you.

 

[PressNightly]

It is obvious we will never find agreement on this issue, so it would be unproductive to go any further.

I would like to note that the hate comes from your side too, so there is a lot of the pot calling the kettle black. You chastise one side for their supposed hate and oppression, yet your views are just as full of that hate and oppression.

You actually "fucking hate" a group of people because their opinion differs from yours. That is the epitome of intolerance.

A long time ago, there were a bunch of people who'd lived through the catholic (christian) on christian genocide that was the Spanish Inquisition. They'd lived through hundreds of years of papal edicts and excomunications, through crusades against the muslims and the pagans. And finally they saw a new land unpopulated by the forces of the old world, and they thought, HEY! Here is a land where we can believe anything we want to believe, we can be whatever we want to be, we can do whatever we want to do!

Fast forward to the 1950s, we had just defeated a regime based on Religious Fascism, of the people in power most of them were proclaimed catholics. On the other side of the line there were a group of people who although they claimed to be athiests, lived under a governmental body which elevated it's own leaders to a deific state. These people were so affraid of becoming like their adversaries that almost 200 years after their founding they decided to include the christian god on their money and in their pledge of allegiance.

They forgot every lesson that the founders of their nation bled for. Whether you are a christian, or a pagan, or a muslim, or a slave, or a native american, or a mormon, you have the right in your personal life to practice whatever it is you preach. But in the public sphere your personal religious views should not and can not hold any sway.

We founded this country on a platform of religious freedoms, every single one of the founding fathers was a child of the enlightment, they were weaned on the writings of Spinoza and Aristotle, they were taught that just because a person has a crown does not mean that they are given a devine mandate to rule those around them.

Now we have groups like the Free Evangelicals and the Baptist Church who are claiming protection as non profit organizations but then turn around and back public officials and form universities to train future politiians to impose their religious morality on the rest of america while at the same time demanding the protections and rights of Religious Freedom.

I FUCKING HATE anyone who claims any right or privalege in this country without understand exactly what it is that this country really is (or was supposed to be).

Furthermore I freely call for the death of anyone who states that their religious views should be represented in government in favor of other law abiding tax paying citizens who are simply calling for their equal protections under the law as promised by the 4th ammendment.

"The tree of liberty must occasionally be watered with blood of Patriots and Tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

 

[Aviator1976]

the antagonism that the right wing so enthusiastically demonstrates is doing a fine job of it. Every minority-- including the 52% minority that is women-- is mobilising to preserve whatever civil rights they have.
Nope. His views do NOT include the view that he has the right to pass laws that infringe on other people's civil rights. That's what "oppression" is.


Religion is NOT law.

But a person's belief in religion does affect their vote, which in turn creates law. Which is the way it was intended all along...people vote their beliefs and values. To ask a religious person to check their religion at the door when voting is the same as asking a homosexual to check their sexuality at the door. Both are an integral part of who that person is.

 

[Aviator1976]

Press comes with facts, and you come with vulgarity-filled opinions. Sort of sums up one ENTIRE side of the debate: "Well, the Bible says so, so fuck off homos!"

I am curious as to which facts he actually presented in his rant? He spouted a lot of tired rhetoric that was short on fact.

 

[Aviator1976]

A long time ago, there were a bunch of people who'd lived through the catholic (christian) on christian genocide that was the Spanish Inquisition. They'd lived through hundreds of years of papal edicts and excomunications, through crusades against the muslims and the pagans. And finally they saw a new land unpopulated by the forces of the old world, and they thought, HEY! Here is a land where we can believe anything we want to believe, we can be whatever we want to be, we can do whatever we want to do!

Fast forward to the 1950s, we had just defeated a regime based on Religious Fascism, of the people in power most of them were proclaimed catholics. On the other side of the line there were a group of people who although they claimed to be athiests, lived under a governmental body which elevated it's own leaders to a deific state. These people were so affraid of becoming like their adversaries that almost 200 years after their founding they decided to include the christian god on their money and in their pledge of allegiance.

They forgot every lesson that the founders of their nation bled for. Whether you are a christian, or a pagan, or a muslim, or a slave, or a native american, or a mormon, you have the right in your personal life to practice whatever it is you preach. But in the public sphere your personal religious views should not and can not hold any sway.

We founded this country on a platform of religious freedoms, every single one of the founding fathers was a child of the enlightment, they were weaned on the writings of Spinoza and Aristotle, they were taught that just because a person has a crown does not mean that they are given a devine mandate to rule those around them.

Now we have groups like the Free Evangelicals and the Baptist Church who are claiming protection as non profit organizations but then turn around and back public officials and form universities to train future politiians to impose their religious morality on the rest of america while at the same time demanding the protections and rights of Religious Freedom.

I FUCKING HATE anyone who claims any right or privalege in this country without understand exactly what it is that this country really is (or was supposed to be).

Furthermore I freely call for the death of anyone who states that their religious views should be represented in government in favor of other law abiding tax paying citizens who are simply calling for their equal protections under the law as promised by the 4th ammendment.

"The tree of liberty must occasionally be watered with blood of Patriots and Tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

Further proof that you are an ass.

 

[Stella_Omega]

But a person's belief in religion does affect their vote, which in turn creates law. Which is the way it was intended all along...people vote their beliefs and values. To ask a religious person to check their religion at the door when voting is the same as asking a homosexual to check their sexuality at the door. Both are an integral part of who that person is.

What-- gay folk vote gayly?

Do they gay walk their dog, gay wash their dishes, put gay gas in their gay car, put a gay paycheck in the gay bank, gay watch TV?

There is only ONE reason why gay people vote differently than fundies right now, and that is to attain the civil rights which the Xtian right wishes to withhold from them. The Log Cabin republicans are an illustration of that.

Civil rights should never be a matter of popular vote. Other things should be.

 

[warl0ck1]

um correct me if I am wrong but Romney is a Mormon Massachusetts republican. which means he is not Christian right and he is far from conservitive no matter what the press whats to right about him.

calling any Massachusetts republican politician far right is like calling Bill Clinton Far left.

I disagree with you Stella only in the belief that I do not think there will be any more or less violence from the right on the homosexual community.