California may ban conversion therapy

gotsnowgotslush

skates like Eck
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05/08/2012

A first-of-its-kind ban on a controversial form of psychotherapy aimed at making gay people straight could face a key vote Tuesday
by a group of California lawmakers.

http://www.santacruzsentinel.com/localnews/ci_20575347/calif-could-ban-gay-straight-therapy-teens

"This therapy can be dangerous," said the bill's author Sen. Ted Lieu. He added the treatments can "cause extreme depression
and guilt" that sometimes leads to suicide.

VS

Conservative religious groups emphatically reject that view of sexual orientation therapy and say the California bill would
interfere with parents' rights to seek appropriate psychological care for their children.

"While this is a direct assault on everyone's freedom it is also a not so subtle attack on religious liberty," the National Association
for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality said in a statement.

Marcus Bachmann, the husband of Republican presidential candidate Michele Bachmann runs a mental health clinic that reportedly
provides such therapy.

July 11, 2011

Two witnesses said over the weekend that a counseling clinic founded by Michele and Marcus Bachmann performs a controversial
“ex-gay” therapy. A former client of Bachmann’s clinic told The Nation that he was counseled to become straight when he was in
high school. And the group Truth Wins Out sent a staffer undercover and was treated for his homosexuality. Bachmann’s clinic has
taken in thousands in state and federal money despite its overt Christian conservative message.

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Psychologists Reject Gay ‘Therapy’

August 5, 2009

The American Psychological Association declared Wednesday that mental health professionals should not tell gay clients they
can become straight through therapy or other treatments.

No solid evidence exists that such change is likely, says the resolution, adopted by a 125-to-4 vote. The association said
some research suggested that efforts to produce change could be harmful, inducing depression and suicidal tendencies.

snippet from above is from-
New York Times
Health
AP article
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/06/health/06gay.html

The Council of Representatives of the American Psychological Association (APA) has passed a resolution affirming four basic principles
with regard to treatments to alter sexual orientation, so-called conversion or reparative therapies.

These principles are:

Homosexuality is not a mental disorder and the APA opposes all portrayals of lesbian, gay and bisexual people as mentally ill
and in need of treatment due to their sexual orientation;

Psychologists do not knowingly participate in or condone discriminatory practices with lesbian, gay and bisexual clients;

Psychologists respect the rights of individuals, including lesbian, gay and bisexual clients to privacy, confidentiality,
self-determination and autonomy;

Psychologists obtain appropriate informed consent to therapy in their work with lesbian, gay and bisexual clients.

The resolution further states that the APA "urges all mental health professionals to take the lead in removing the
stigma of mental illness that has long been associated with homosexual orientation."

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DSM-IV-TR 2010, homosexuality is listed as a gender identity disorder, under 302.85?

http://www.dsm5.org/ProposedRevisions/Pages/proposedrevision.aspx?rid=482

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"The world in which men wore red neckties to signal their homosexuality to each other or taught themselves to speak and walk
more “manfully” or risked arrest and, in turn, social and financial ruin just to be with people like themselves, now seems
as archaic as segregated water fountains."

- Eve Kosofsky Sedgwick

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Stuck in the Dark Ages

The old option and the old answer: Staying In The "Closet"

Defy 2012 convention of having freedom of expression, being honest and open and - Keep your sexual identity secret-
Don't ask, Don't tell, still lives. (Undead?)

Defy your religious community- worship at the church of your choice, even though eternal damnation is threatened for indulging
in a natural urge for love and sex.

Psychotherapist, Denis Flanigan acknowledges the conflicts a gay man might face in a state where being open about their homosexuality
and coming out of the closet could cause them to "suffer mightily."

"Christians of the kind who earnestly believed that the Bible deplored homosexuality were particularly troubled as they
tried to reconcile their faith with their sexual orientation."

"Some gay evangelicals truly believe that to follow their sexual orientation means abandonment by a church that provides
them with emotional and social sustenance — not to mention eternal damnation."

“Which trumps which?” Flanigan asked himself. “Religion or sexual orientation?”

“Back in the ’60s and ’70s, the people who sought treatment were the ones who struggled with the discrimination and prejudice
that they faced, and sensed that they couldn’t have a life. But more recently, the people who come to treatment are people who
have strong religious beliefs who cannot integrate that identity into their lives.”
- Judith Glassgold

Should therapists help God-fearing gay people stay in the closet?
MIMI SWARTZ
June 16, 2011
New York Times
Health

Choosing to come out of the closet, might buy trouble-

Rejection from family members, rejection from the church they belong to, rejection from employers.
Rejection from peer groups, rejection from associates, rejection from professional associations.

Withdrawal of support, help, assistance.

Violence, bodily harm from hostile people, death.

The most extreme religion asks the most extreme of sacrifices-

Take the conversion therapy, get married to the opposite sex, despite your sexual orientation and fit in.
 
I thought reputable psychiatry considers conversation therapy torture and damaging.
 
What ever happened to "Pray the Gay Away"? It works just as well and it's cheaper.
 
Where is Frizzle Fry? Where are the "libertarians" in condemning this bill?

If someone claims to be a "libertarian" but can't even speak out against the government taking the rights of individuals to seek out whatever behavior modification counselling they wish, they are no "libertarian."

I'd like to hear some of the faux "libertarians" defend this bill.
 
I suppose if you wish to change from straight to homosexual preference they will also be banned. Also, if someone wishes to overcome his/her sexual desires entirely through counselling that will be banned.

So, um, yes, this takes everyone's rights away. If the "libertarians" can't take a strong and public stand against this, they are frauds, hypocrites and useless liars. Where are they?
 
What ever happened to "Pray the Gay Away"? It works just as well and it's cheaper.

Some people need support from a counsellor or a support group when they try to change a personal behavior, whatever it is. Why would you have a problem with that?
 
What other rights to counselling with the state take away? The right to get help if one wishes to pursue a celibate lifestyle? Where does this STOP?
 
You'll still be allowed to get therapy to stop smoking.

The establishment doesn't like smoking, unless its pole smoking of course. :rolleyes:
 
Where are those who used to claim they just want people to be allowed to do whatever they want without the state being involved?

Obviously the state is telling grown adults that they can't get counselling to overcome a behavior they have voluntarily chosen they wish to overcome.

Where's the "government off my back" crowd? :confused:
 
What about conversion of young people to homosexual activity via the entertainment industry's propaganda? Is that included in the bill?

The number of young women under age 25 who have "ever engaged in same sex activity" increased from 4% to 19% between 1990 and 2005 according to CDC study. If everyone is "born with an orientation" how did it increase so much in 25 years? :confused:
 
The bill would prohibit so-called reparative therapy for minors and obligate adults to sign a release form that states that the counseling is ineffectual and possibly dangerous.

Parents should not be able to subject their children to something harmful that has no benefit. It doesn't work and we know that because every single piece of research on it has either not proven it to work - or proven it not to work.

And yes, any treatment provider is obligated to inform their patients of the risks and benefits of any kind of treatment. Aside from the legal obligation, this requirement is part of the code of ethics for all professional treatment providers. No state should require a law specifically for this kind of treatment because it should already be done.

In the case of conversion therapy or the case of treating the flu, the provider must inform the patient of the risks and benefits of counseling or the antiviral medicine. None of this should ever be up for debate.
 
I suppose if you wish to change from straight to homosexual preference they will also be banned. Also, if someone wishes to overcome his/her sexual desires entirely through counselling that will be banned.

So, um, yes, this takes everyone's rights away. If the "libertarians" can't take a strong and public stand against this, they are frauds, hypocrites and useless liars. Where are they?
According to the first linked article
The bill would prohibit so-called reparative therapy for minors and obligate adults to sign a release form that states that the counseling is ineffectual and possibly dangerous.
So you see, assuming the article is right, it doesn't totally ban it.
It prohibits it for minors (many things adults do are prohibited for minors because they aren't mature enough to make informed decisions) and it requires written notification of possible "side effects" of it for adults, a common practice in medicine.

Most libertarians refer to "consenting adults" when discussing allowing or restricting things.

Aside from the legal obligation, this requirement is part of the code of ethics for all professional treatment providers.
Oops, I should have read the whole thread first. lol
But to this specific point, that's the problem, people doing conversion therapy have no ethics.
 
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