Wow! Petey, you were right! We don't spend enough on Education...

[Peregrinator]

We're in the same box.

And there's no way out of it.

Nuts. You've drunk the kool aid.

Thank God I'm retired. I feel for todays youngsters, cuz theyre screwed right outta the gate.

I worked about 50 years, and here's my take on employment: Whatever work requires lotsa technical training is doomed by the rapid evolution of technology. The military trained me to be a mechanic, but today computers do all the thinking about problems, and the grease monkey is reduced to a parts installer. Ditto for computer fixers and the rest. No one has fixed a tv in 30 years.

In my profession, psychology-rehab, no one manages patient care for paralyzed-head injured people anymore. Insurance companies give these people sacks of cash and cuts them loose. Ditto for workmens comp clients. I think this state terminated vocational rehab long ago. Its cheaper to settle and be rid of people. If a patient with cerebral palsy wants to kill themselves, no one gives a shit. They got their payday, so fuck them.

I tried to interest my grand-daughter in pharmacy, and she laughed at me. She cant look down the road and see that monkeys are gonna do the work she plans to do.

I have a good friend who works about half time as a hospital pharmacist and spends the rest of his time doing stuff like endurance races and teaching animal tracking. I envy him.

 

[Byron In Exile]

Nuts. You've drunk the kool aid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YR5ApYxkU-U

 

[mercury14]

OHHHHHH 15 bucks an hr here i come!~!!



I'm willing to bet department store managers are all rocking MBA's or at least and under grad in biz management.



Another business degree...



Sociology/Communications/Marketing degrees, all of them.



That's got MBA/biz management degree written all over it.



Madre dose pharm sales.... business deg. as are all her co workers, some sales this might be possible. But you are still looking a shitty return on your dollar selling cars and or some other rough gig unless you are really good at selling, which has jack and squat to do with education and everything to do with talking to people.



MBA/Child development/ education degree's...



Really? Welcome to the 21's century man...The Business degree is the new BLA, FFS you have to have a good credit score to pick up trash. BLA's are the most worthless fucking degree's on the market right now....slightly over minimum wage is what an BLA is worth.







Yes a wealth of opp. to go to grad school and specialize...it's the only way to go these days.

I'm not denying that specialist degrees do these things. I'm telling you that a generalist degree can also do them.

 

[mercury14]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...unemployment/2012/01/03/gIQAwpaXZP_story.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/rw/2010-2019/WashingtonPost/2012/01/04/Business/Graphics/w-majors-graphicstory.jpg

What part of this proves those degrees can't be sold in the marketplace?

 

[unregistered]

 

[mercury14]

Go here son. I had a thread on it yesterday:

http://www9.georgetown.edu/grad/gppi/hpi/cew/pdfs/Unemployment.Final.update1.pdf

Interesting report, if a bit obvious.

But nothing in it says that certain degrees can't be sold. In fact it says that the unemployment rate for arts degree folks is just 11%.

 

[fair_warning]

You probably think that because your to fucking dumb to make it through a discrete mathematics, O chem, quantum phys, or differential equations class. lol

When the BA crowd advances the human race 1/2 as much as the BS crowd...I will surrender and acknowledge your statement as valid. Untill then however, engineers, biologist (MD's), chemist and other BS grads pretty much provide all the lovely things we have in our modern world.

No, I don't think I'm too fucking dumb at all. I do OK. And yes I agree that we need the maths and science nerds but we also need poets and artists to help us enjoy what we have as human beings. This quote from Dead Poets Society kinda sums it for me:

“Medicine, law, business, engineering - these are noble pursuits and necessary to sustain life. But poetry, beauty, romance, love - these are what we stay alive for!”

 

[Frizzle_Fry]

Interesting report, if a bit obvious.

But nothing in it says that certain degrees can't be sold. In fact it says that the unemployment rate for arts degree folks is just 11%.

My room mate has an art's degree....he is the assistant manager at a bagel shop. 14 bucks an hr. makes him part of that 89% employed demo.

Total success story hua? maybe he can get his own place in another 5 years when he makes GM.

I know art's degree's get jobs.....most of them don't have a pot to piss in though.

I think the only graduates I have known that are just as plain dumb as when they started their education are the science/maths based ones....

“Medicine, law, business, engineering - these are noble pursuits and necessary to sustain life. But poetry, beauty, romance, love - these are what we stay alive for!”

You just in a better mood today?? because your messages as we can see were totally different. I agree however....we need the arts, they make life fun. Doesn't make an artsy fartsy degree a very practical/marketable one in the current job market. If you do it for purely masturbatory reasons super, if you are doing it to get a job and monetary success....FAIL.

 

[mercury14]

My room mate has an art's degree....he is the assistant manager at a bagel shop. 14 bucks an hr. makes him part of that 89% employed demo.

Total success story hua? maybe he can get his own place in another 5 years when he makes GM.

And how long would it take him to become GM if he didn't have a college degree? See how that works?

 

[SultryBreakfast]

+1

I'm a teacher and it sucks.

 

[Frizzle_Fry]

And how long would it take him to become GM if he didn't have a college degree?

I don't know, and neither do you.

I still don't see the rational behind going 80-120k into debt to spend the next 10 years living below the poverty line on top of having to pay the loans back with interest.

It's a piss poor investment from an economical standpoint.

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

My room mate has an art's degree....he is the assistant manager at a bagel shop. 14 bucks an hr. makes him part of that 89% employed demo.

Total success story hua? maybe he can get his own place in another 5 years when he makes GM.

I know art's degree's get jobs.....most of them don't have a pot to piss in though.





You just in a better mood today?? because your messages as we can see were totally different. I agree however....we need the arts, they make life fun. Doesn't make an artsy fartsy degree a very practical/marketable one in the current job market. If you do it for purely masturbatory reasons super, if you are doing it to get a job and monetary success....FAIL.

That doesn't mean he isn't qualified to work at a higher paying job. It only proves he chooses to work at a bagel shop.

 

[Frizzle_Fry]

That doesn't mean he isn't qualified to work at a higher paying job. It only proves he chooses to work at a bagel shop.

fine...Art degree's are the shit.

Engineers, lawyers, medical professionals and business management....pfft wtf were they thinking?

 

[fair_warning]

You just in a better mood today?? because your messages as we can see were totally different. I agree however....we need the arts, they make life fun. Doesn't make an artsy fartsy degree a very practical/marketable one in the current job market. If you do it for purely masturbatory reasons super, if you are doing it to get a job and monetary success....FAIL.

No mood variation. The posts were addressing a subtle but different aspect of this discussion. In my first post I was remembering a friend at Uni who had to take one elective paper from outside the Faculty of Science to finish his e-commerce degree. He asked me for suggestions and I came up with some English papers. The look of horror on his face was classic - he saw English as being soooo difficult.

 

[Saint Peter]

Education is not always about making the most money.

I spent two decades building stuff. I worked on cool stuff and always paid my bills. I went back to school to design stuff. The money is not going to be that much better than the top wage I earned fabricating. The investment in the degree is not small, either in terms of time or money.

What really matters is that I do for a living what I like and want to do. Education gives me freedom and power. It makes my brain happy.

Would I do it again? Fuck yes.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Your basic assumption is flawed.

That you need college to earn an education and a degree to prove that you are educated.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Barone: Working for fun is no laughs in capitalism
Michael Barone, Washington Examiner
November 8, 2011

...

Conservative bloggers and commenters have been making fun of Therrien, who quit his job as a drama teacher in New York City public schools to get a master in fine arts in puppetry at the University of Connecticut.

Now he's saddled with $35,000 in student loans and unable to find a puppetry job. So he's substitute teaching at half his former pay and is a member of Occupy Wall Street's Puppetry Guild.

"Could he not see this coming if he spent $35k on a degree in puppetry?" asks cartcart on lucianne.com. "A hopeless case."

But actually it turns out that some Americans do make a living doing puppetry. And not just the famous ones like Burr Tillstrom of the 1950s TV show "Kukla, Fran and Ollie," or Jim Henson of "The Muppets."

Some do so working for outfits like the Center for Puppetry Arts in Atlanta, the Sandglass Center for Puppetry and Theater Research in Putney, Vt., and the Spiral Q Puppet Theater in Philadelphia.

Reason's Mike Riggs notes disapprovingly that these organizations got federal money from Barack Obama's stimulus package. But they also receive money from people who buy tickets for performances and those who make larger voluntary contributions.

They look like good examples of the Tocquevillian voluntary associations that crop up all over America and benefit from the prosperity generated by market capitalism.

Therrien, according to Richard Kim, thought his master's in puppetry would bring him "a measure of security." But I think that in quitting a tenured job he was giving up security and taking a risk to achieve his dream.

He presumably felt that he could be a good enough puppeteer to make a living at it and could find a job doing so. That's the sort of thing the late Steve Jobs told Stanford graduates that they ought to do.

Therrien didn't know that we were going to have a financial collapse in fall 2008 and that a lengthy recession would follow. Neither did most economists -- including the very good ones in the Obama administration -- and most people in banking and financial services.

Or perhaps Therrien didn't understand that a lengthy recession could reduce the market demand for puppetry, as fewer people could afford tickets or make generous gifts.

I have long thought that one of the wonderful things about our affluent society is that more and more people could find jobs doing things they love.

In a hunter-gatherer society, men hunt and women gather whether they like it or not. In an agricultural society like 18th century America, practically everybody has to make a living farming even if they hate it.

In industrial America a century ago people had jobs as factory workers or, if they were skilled and lucky, file clerks. Liberals today ooze nostalgia about how half a century ago an unskilled guy just out of high school could get a steady job on an auto assembly line.

Well, I grew up in Detroit and I know that people hated those jobs.

In the America of our time a lot of people make livings as actors, musicians and, yes, as puppeteers. I think it's a safe assumption that they get more satisfaction and sense of accomplishment from their work than they would as file clerks or factory workers with significantly higher pay.

Therrien bet $35,000 that he would be able to find work he loved, and I think well of him for it even though he has at least for the moment lost his gamble.

What he probably doesn't realize is that jobs in fields like puppetry aren't generated by government but are the product of bounteous market capitalism, which enables people to buy luxury goods like puppet show tickets and subsidize puppet theaters through philanthropy.

Government is a poor and unreliable substitute and a government that chokes private sector growth inevitably hurts the puppetry business. Sorry, Joe.

 

[Frizzle_Fry]

No mood variation. The posts were addressing a subtle but different aspect of this discussion. In my first post I was remembering a friend at Uni who had to take one elective paper from outside the Faculty of Science to finish his e-commerce degree. He asked me for suggestions and I came up with some English papers. The look of horror on his face was classic - he saw English as being soooo difficult.

See I look at some of the English/art etc student's like that when their eye's glaze over and roll into the back of their head because they think general chem or phys is hard.

My beef with the English/art/philosophy stuff is that you can write a paper that fits all the standards for the assignment and still get a C, simply because they didn't like subject, content or whatever. Never deal with that shit in a math/sci class....2+2 = 4 end of story you get an A every time.

People are wired differently...*shrug*

 

[Saint Peter]

Your basic assumption is flawed.

That you need college to earn an education and a degree to prove that you are educated.

I have nothing to prove and a ton of knowledge that I did not have when I started out on this path.

Education is more than just reading books. Just ask the dogs as the waltz into your chicken coop.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

I have nothing to prove and a ton of knowledge that I did not have when I started out on this path.

Education is more than just reading books. Just ask the dogs as the waltz into your chicken coop.

That last, really cheap shot, worthy of any Democrat, was not an issue of education, if you remember, I was over-ruled in the initial design phase by *gasp* another master's degree holder...



mah grits

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

See I look at some of the English/art etc student's like that when their eye's glaze over and roll into the back of their head because they think general chem or phys is hard.

My beef with the English/art/philosophy stuff is that you can write a paper that fits all the standards for the assignment and still get a C, simply because they didn't like subject, content or whatever. Never deal with that shit in a math/sci class....2+2 = 4 end of story you get an A every time.

People are wired differently...*shrug*

In technical writing the professor told the class I was a genius after the first writing assignment. She put an A on my first paper, it was on Boolean Algebra and logic gates, which she noted that she did not read because she could not understand and for the rest of the semester to just please turn in short stories.

In Statistics, the real one, not the PRE-MED (chimp) stats class, on our first test 38 of 40 students got a collective 0. They were engineering students.

I know they had to have found a way to pass the class elsewhere since, for them, it was requisite to engineering school which implies that somewhere else, the standard was watered down for volume.

After our Computer Architecture tests, the walls would be lined with students (I called it the wailing wall) desperate to have their C's turned into B's so they could still be eligible for grad school. Of course, the word came from on high that the grades needed to be adjusted because they needed grad students to MAKE MONEY with the grad program...

That's education when it is a right and a governmentally subsidized business.

 

[Saint Peter]

That last, really cheap shot, worthy of any Democrat, was not an issue of education, if you remember, I was over-ruled in the initial design phase by *gasp* another master's degree holder...



mah grits

You will get over it. I am sure I will.

You do, however, miss the point. You can sit at your kitchen table and read the same books I have read, but without interaction and access to different opinions, your education is much different than mine. My campus has all kinds of equipment that would not be available to me if I were not a student at the school.

 

[Frizzle_Fry]

Education is not always about making the most money.

I agree...no it's not. But it's a factor in making a living none the less.

 

[miles]

You will get over it. I am sure I will.

You do, however, miss the point. You can sit at your kitchen table and read the same books I have read, but without interaction and access to different opinions, your education is much different than mine. My campus has all kinds of equipment that would not be available to me if I were not a student at the school.

What kind of equipment gives you access to different opinions?

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

You will get over it. I am sure I will.

You do, however, miss the point. You can sit at your kitchen table and read the same books I have read, but without interaction and access to different opinions, your education is much different than mine. My campus has all kinds of equipment that would not be available to me if I were not a student at the school.

That's something you tell yourself.

I was doing programming years before I go the degree.

Which was the real education? I stopped attending class because the professors were reading the textbooks to the ill-educated and unprepared students. I don't they they ended up one wit more educated for having that "interaction."

You learn a lot more by kissing client ass.


__________________
Never does a man stand so tall than when he stoops to kiss some ass.
James Carville