Justice for Trayvon??

[RobDownSouth]

And the children come to play

Let's leave your chronically under-achieving children out of this, m'kay?

 

[Dream59]

Conservatives Still Don't Understand The Trayvon Martin Story

April 05, 2012 11:44 am ET by Eric Boehlert

Writing in today's Wall Street Journal, conservative Shelby Steele announced "Two tragedies are apparent in the Trayvon Martin case." The first was that Martin had been gunned down by a neighborhood watchman. The second calamity, according to Steele, was that the "liberal media" and the "the increasingly redundant civil rights establishment" have exploited the boy's death for their own gain.

It's telling what Steele did not consider to be a tragedy in the Martin case - the fact that the man who admitted shooting the unarmed teen, George Zimmerman, hasn't been arrested or charged with a crime. Indeed, the lack of an arrest is the central reason why the Martin story erupted into national headlines in recent weeks. And yet Steele, busy bashing Martin's advocates as well as the press, raced right past that salient fact.

Steele is not alone. Within the conservative media, it's now become commonplace to pontificate about the Martin story (while often condemning civil rights activists as "race hustlers") without ever mentioning why the story became such a blockbuster; without ever mentioning that the man who shot Martin has not been charged.

That's kind of a crucial fact. Yet conservative pundits seem eager to brush it aside. That amount of obfuscation raises doubts whether they even understand the fundamentals of the Martin story, or whether they are just choosing to ignore them because they raise difficult questions about the law and race in America.

Last week Media Matters noted that Fox News' Bill O'Reilly wondered, as more and more information leaked about Martin's past, whether a "gag order" should be placed in the "case." But of course, only a judge can issue a gag order and the fact is there is no Martin legal "case" because nobody has been arrested for the crime of shooting the unarmed teenager.

And recently, National Review editor Rich Lowry complained there was a double standard with regards to which black murder victims received more media attention, and which black crime victims sparked community protest. Lowry pointed to several black-on-black crimes that he claimed had not "gin[ned] up the outrage machine" the way the "allegedly racially motivated killing" of Martin had been turned into a "cause" and a "national symbol."

What did Lowry not acknowledge in his piece about the Martin story? The fact that the boy's killer, who authorities identified at the scene, hasn't been charged with a crime.

The conservative press has now spent weeks, in full force, trying to spin away the Martin controversy. The fact that so many far-right players won't even acknowledge a key facet of the case suggests it's a story they cannot deal with honestly.

http://mediamatters.org/blog/201204050004

This is just more imflammatory writing, and both sides are trying to out do the other. First of all Trayvon was not "gunned down" He was shot and killed. Words have meaning and they give a mental picture, to use the term gunned down gives a much more biased and different meaning than the term shot and killed, that is why it is used. Secondly the reason that Zimmerman has not been arrested may be that, either they are not sure a crime has been comitted, that a crime has been comitted and they have not determined the appropriate charge, that they are going to take the case to a Grand Jury, or that there was no crime comitted by Zimmerman.

Neither side knows what the hell happened but they are doing their best to spin this to their advantage. Let the investigation play out. There is more information comming out daily. At the end everyone will know where they stand.

 

[warrior queen]

This is just more imflammatory writing, and both sides are trying to out do the other. First of all Trayvon was not "gunned down" He was shot and killed. Words have meaning and they give a mental picture, to use the term gunned down gives a much more biased and different meaning than the term shot and killed, that is why it is used. Secondly the reason that Zimmerman has not been arrested may be that, either they are not sure a crime has been comitted, that a crime has been comitted and they have not determined the appropriate charge, that they are going to take the case to a Grand Jury, or that there was no crime comitted by Zimmerman.

Neither side knows what the hell happened but they are doing their best to spin this to their advantage. Let the investigation play out. There is more information comming out daily. At the end everyone will know where they stand.

I don't understand why the race of the people involved have to be constantly mentioned at all.
Why not just report that an unarmed youth was shot by a neighbourhood watch man?
For us outsiders, it seems that the US is fixated on race, rather than earnestly seeking the facts.

 

[Ishmael]

And Liberals, being wholly ignorant of the law, feel that an arrest, for anything, makes it all OK.

First of all Zimmerman can be arrested at anytime the States Attorney deems that they have a case and charges that will stick. He's not a flight risk and he's already admitted shooting Martin so there's no ambiguity on that point. The officials have the shooter, the weapon, and the forensics on the decedent. There is no particular rush.

Well, except for the fact that the race baiters want Zimmerman arrested. Fine, what do they want him charged with? 2nd degree murder with a 'hate crime' adder? Just what is he to be arrested for and charged with.......hmmmmmmmmm? You see if they fuck up the charges it's most likely that Zimmerman will walk with either a dismissal or a forced no lo prosecu. And there would be almost no chance of ever getting him back in court even if some new evidence turned up at a later date. Or perhaps the issue isn't justice at all, all the liberals want is the symbolic act of arresting Zimmerman. Given their penchant for symbolism over substance I can readily see how they would be satisfied with the symbolic act. Then they can say, "See, we were right." Then pack their shit and go home. Some weeks later Zimmerman's case is dismissed, reported in the New York Times on A-27 below the fold.

Ishmael

 

[Sean Renaud]

I don't understand why the race of the people involved have to be constantly mentioned at all.
Why not just report that an unarmed youth was shot by a neighbourhood watch man?
For us outsiders, it seems that the US is fixated on race, rather than earnestly seeking the facts.

The focus is on race because if Treyvon wasn't black we wouldn't be having this conversation. Zimmerman would be awaiting trial.

 

[warrior queen]

The focus is on race because if Treyvon wasn't black we wouldn't be having this conversation. Zimmerman would be awaiting trial.

By stating this, you imply that the US is still embroiled in the race war, which your country has strenuously denied for some time now.
So which is it?

 

[IrezumiKiss]

Neither side knows what the hell happened but they are doing their best to spin this to their advantage. Let the investigation play out. There is more information comming out daily. At the end everyone will know where they stand.

But see, everyone already knows where they stand on this. It's why the thread was made and why 95% of the "conversation" is pure squawk.

 

[Dream59]

But see, everyone already knows where they stand on this. It's why the thread was made and why 95% of the "conversation" is pure squawk.

There is not a thing in this statement that I can argue with.

 

[CHNOPS]

This isn't complicated. In the United States, not even considering the fact that Martin's skin color might have contributed to his seeming suspicious, is willful ignorance. It doesn't mean it really did. But anyone saying the consideration of it is somehow jumping to conclusions, has already jumped to a conclusion of their own.

They're just hoping theirs turns out to be right, so they don't have to cop to it.

 

[Dream59]

This isn't complicated. In the United States, not even considering the fact that Martin's skin color might have contributed to his seeming suspicious, is willful ignorance. It doesn't mean it really did. But anyone saying the consideration of it is somehow jumping to conclusions, has already jumped to a conclusion of their own.

I agree with this also, but it has nothing to do with the acts that led to the shooting.

 

[Ishmael]

The focus is on race because if Treyvon wasn't black we wouldn't be having this conversation. Zimmerman would be awaiting trial.

A wholly uninformed and unsubstantiated opinion.

This case has nothing to do with race in the end.

Ishmael

 

[Byron In Exile]

You see if they fuck up the charges it's most likely that Zimmerman will walk with either a dismissal or a forced no lo prosecu.

He won't walk with a forced [unintelligible].

He could walk with a nolle prosequi, however.

 

[Sean Renaud]

By stating this, you imply that the US is still embroiled in the race war, which your country has strenuously denied for some time now.
So which is it?

Race war never ended. Any denial of such war is somewhere between ignorance and denial. It's just not as bad as it was before.

 

[LadyFunkenstein]

A wholly uninformed and unsubstantiated opinion.

This case has nothing to do with race in the end.

Ishmael

What case?

 

[IrezumiKiss]

A wholly uninformed and unsubstantiated opinion.

This case has nothing to do with race in the end.

Ishmael

Whatever helps you sleep at night, Ishy.

And I honestly mean that, from the bottom of my would've-been-legally-considered-3/5-of-a-person-back-in-1787 heart.

 

[CHNOPS]

What case?

^^^

Aces.

 

[Dream59]

The focus is on race because if Treyvon wasn't black we wouldn't be having this conversation. Zimmerman would be awaiting trial.

Race war never ended. Any denial of such war is somewhere between ignorance and denial. It's just not as bad as it was before.

Sean it seems that you are as racist as you are making everyone other than Blacks out to be. Your statements lead to conclusions that are not necessarily true. You are saying that there are not cases where other races are killed in self defense. This is totally untrue. You are also giving the impression that Blacks are in a war with the other races and this is only true of the fringe of each race. Blacks are in a war but it is a war within themselves to throw off the actions and attitudes that keep them from becoming all that they wish to be.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Sean it seems that you are as racist as you are making everyone other than Blacks out to be. Your statements lead to conclusions that are not necessarily true. You are saying that there are not cases where other races are killed in self defense. This is totally untrue. You are also giving the impression that Blacks are in a war with the other races and this is only true of the fringe of each race. Blacks are in a war but it is a war within themselves to throw off the actions and attitudes that keep them from becoming all that they wish to be.

When did I say blacks aren't racists? Oh wait. I didn't.

There are cases of people being killed in self defence. It turns out that being black or Mexican seems to vastly improve your chances of getting shot in self defense, even when your unarmed by police and other people.

The blacks are at a war to throw out some things and that needs to be done. However it's not entirely or even mostly actions and attitude that keep them from becoming all they wish to be. It's a general lack of opportunity in this nation. It's a bitch and three quarters to drag yourself up.

 

[Dream59]

When did I say blacks aren't racists? Oh wait. I didn't.

There are cases of people being killed in self defence. It turns out that being black or Mexican seems to vastly improve your chances of getting shot in self defense, even when your unarmed by police and other people.

The blacks are at a war to throw out some things and that needs to be done. However it's not entirely or even mostly actions and attitude that keep them from becoming all they wish to be. It's a general lack of opportunity in this nation. It's a bitch and three quarters to drag yourself up.

I agree with some of this, but some is passing the buck. There is no lack of opportunity, there is a lack of reaching for that opportunity. There is too much blaming others and not enough looking inward at what was offered and what was accepted as well as what was acceptable. This may surprise you but it is a bitch and three quarters for everyone but the wealthy, no matter the race, but to say that it can not be done because it is too hard is a cop out.

 

[miles]

Liberals are obsessed with race.

 

[Disgustipated]

Liberals are obsessed with race.

You've made almost 200 threads about Obama, shut the fuck up.

 

[Sean Renaud]

I agree with some of this, but some is passing the buck. There is no lack of opportunity, there is a lack of reaching for that opportunity. There is too much blaming others and not enough looking inward at what was offered and what was accepted as well as what was acceptable. This may surprise you but it is a bitch and three quarters for everyone but the wealthy, no matter the race, but to say that it can not be done because it is too hard is a cop out.

LOL. Of course there is a lack of opportunity. Which is why we have so little upward mobility and worse a shrinking middle class. Blaming others isn't the proper word here anyway and taints the conversation. It's not bad that we have Wal-Mart for example. All around society benefits from Wal-Mart and it's a good deal except for the fact that it drives a lot of other people out of work. Nor are nooks evil. They are incredible. However once they really get going how many book stores do you think will survive? How many print shops? How many warehouses of storage or jobs transporting the books and magazines around? It's not like the same system isn't already in place for movies, video games, news papers and magazines.

There is clearly a difference in the level of education you get in the inner city, suburbs and in "good" neighborhoods. Without the strong foundation you're not getting into college and very few people have the natural inteligence to teach themselves K-12 certainly not well enough to get into college on scholarships and certainly not enough to get yourself into high end colleges (which because of Alumni programs it turns out that if your parents went you can get in much easier. Again lack of opportunity.

If it's a bitch and three quarters to maintain your status quo you're doing something wrong. Btw.

And it was proven that just having a black name lowers your chances of getting hired. While I can get right there (hell I often joke that blacks need to have their children named for them then returned) that some of the crazy names needs to stop and should never have started in the first fucking place. Mostly the made up crazy names. Being named Jamil should not mean getting hired after Chris if at all.

It doesn't help anything that the number of well of blacks is relatively small, especially once you eliminate various entertainers and the such. The myth of pulling yourself up by your boot straps is just that. A myth with a few exceptions to prove the rule. Most people get some help at some stages whether it was Dad hiring you into the company or putting you through college or a friend who made some phone calls and got you into a situation you likely couldn't accomplish on your own or simply being in a place where opportunities are simply plentiful because the enviroment is right.

Another factor is the attempts at welfare reform that while well meaning had disastrous results. It turns out refusing to give able bodied men welfare simply resulted in men leaving their familes so their "wives" and children could get the assistance they so desparately needed. Which in turn lead to single parent familes so on and so forth. And that most definitely was something DONE to them.

It's true that them could equally be applied to anybody sufficiently poor and it should be. However for whatever reason I don't know if it's ignorance, racism, radical optimism or habit but poor whites fundamentally think that even though nobody in their family has ever accomplished it that they are going to become Bill Gates. For whatever reason they do not want the tools to be made more readily available to them to pull themselves up. We should be pushing for better education in this country across the board. We have a whole lot of things that need to be honestly and openly discussed in this country about where we're going and how we intend to get there and that conversation effectively cannot start until we start being honest. The rich are not evil except for a select few. Nor are they benevolent they are just people who are acting in their own best interests (sorta but that's kinda beside the point.) Corporations are not evil. Not any more evil than any other tool is they can be used for evil purposes but they are not inherently evil in and off themselves. This is one place that the Right excells is at setting the narrative with these emotional words.

 

[IrezumiKiss]

Liberals are obsessed with race.

http://media.idownloadblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Irony.jpg

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Opportunity always exists. Everything/anything can be improved. What's lacking is enthusiasm and elbow grease.

 

[garbage can]

Liberals are obsessed with race.

Many Liberals are racists, but they're too stupid to know it....