Justice for Trayvon??

[RobDownSouth]

Not a lot of new information there Lor, but there are some things to be learned.

First of all I'm impressed with the police/EMT response times. If the report(s) are to be believed it was a mere 13 min. from the first call to the time TM was pronounced dead by the EMT's.

The reports indicate 6 unique witnesses. (Going by physical description here although one may be a duplicate.)

The scene was secured and a scene contamination log started promptly and the case turned over to the major crime unit promptly as well.

It appears that Zimmerman was immediately isolated from any witness interaction. And it appears that an attempt was made to isolate the witnesses from each other.

All in all it appears that proper procedure was followed, just don't know how well yet.

Ishmael

Grampa Ish has become quite the crime scene expert since CSI went on the air. It complements his legal expertise (courtesy of Matlock) quite well.

 

[Ulaven_Demorte]

That is pretty fucking fast. Depending on state/local protocols, a body with a bullet hole and no pulse might be a "no work" scene. If not, that's a truly blazing fast response to declare time. For those who don't speak EMS, a person in cardiac arrest from trauma stands a very small chance of ever regaining a pulse. Some systems refuse to try to resuscitate them. I assume this is one of them.

Given the fact that Zimmerman was on the phone with the 911 operator prior to the scuffle and subsequent shooting, police were likely on their way already. It's also likely that given the situation and how it seemed likely to escalate (Because Zimmerman refused to heed the 911 operator's advice to stop following Trayvon) EMS may have been dispatched also.

 

[Ishmael]

That is pretty fucking fast. Depending on state/local protocols, a body with a bullet hole and no pulse might be a "no work" scene. If not, that's a truly blazing fast response to declare time. For those who don't speak EMS, a person in cardiac arrest from trauma stands a very small chance of ever regaining a pulse. Some systems refuse to try to resuscitate them. I assume this is one of them.

I have no idea what their protocol is there.

The initial response times are approx., the only time given with some degree of positivity is the time EMT's called off resuscitation attempts.

Ishmael

 

[busybody..]

Given the fact that Zimmerman was on the phone with the 911 operator prior to the scuffle and subsequent shooting, police were likely on their way already. It's also likely that given the situation and how it seemed likely to escalate (Because Zimmerman refused to heed the 911 operator's advice to stop following Trayvon) EMS may have been dispatched also.

Hey NIGGERUD, how the fuck do you know he REFUSED?

 

[busybody..]

SUMMARY: NBC: We deeply regret our error that made George Zimmerman sound like a racist, and now you should leave us alone. Not so much an “error” as a deliberate falsehood, I’d say.

 

[busybody..]

NBC Apologizes, Admits ‘Error’ in Dowdifying Zimmerman 911 Call


But other than that, they’re not saying much.


NBC News said Tuesday it has concluded an investigation into its repeated broadcast of an edited version of a 911 call placed by George Zimmerman that made it appear he was racially profiling Trayvon Martin the night he killed him.

—

“During our investigation it became evident that there was an error made in the production process that we deeply regret,” NBC News said in a statement e-mailed to The Hollywood Reporter on Tuesday. “We will be taking the necessary steps to prevent this from happening in the future and apologize to our viewers.”

When asked if anyone at Today had lost their job or had been reassigned as a result of the investigation, an NBC spokeswoman said: “We will not be commenting on our course of action.”

NBC should apologize to George Zimmerman, along with the apology to its viewers. That network deliberately smeared him. NBC would not accept such a non-answer about the remedies it claims it is implementing from any target of their own investigative reporting. Why should anyone expect such a non-answer from them? They investigated themselves and claim it was an “error” when — as a professional video and audio editor for more years than I care to admit, I can authoritatively say this — no “error” would result in the edit that they broadcast. To refresh our memories, here’s what transpired during the call and is recorded on the audio:


ZIMMERMAN: This guy looks like he’s up to no good, [begin ellipsis] or he’s on drugs or something. It’s raining and he’s just walking around, looking about.

911 DISPATCHER: Okay, is this guy, is he white, black, or Hispanic? [end ellipsis]

ZIMMERMAN: He looks black.

And here’s how NBC’s “error” rendered that sequence:


“This guy looks like he’s up to no good … he looks black,” Zimmerman told a police dispatcher from his car.

Honest error does not cut out the middle part of that sequence. Deliberate editing to cast Zimmerman as a racist would, and that is obviously what happened here. NBC aired that edit as audio and rendered it that way on their web sites. Honest “error” does not explain that.

NBC’s investigation is a whitewash.

Update: Yes, Kevin Drum, this episode will become one of many examples of media bias and distortion. Because that’s exactly what it is. This wasn’t a “cockup.” It was deliberate.

 

[busybody..]

You NIGGERZ dont give a shit about JUSTICE

You care about LYNCHING someone without having any facts

Were the sides reversed, you wouldnt even give a shit

You would scream....MANUFACTURED OUTRGAE....so my wish to you all

Is to have RAPISTS and KILLERS invade your homes and dismemember you and yoor family!

 

[busybody..]

Attention you NIGGERZ, who screamed with glee

ITS T MART, ITS NOT THE RACIST WHITE GUY ON THE TAPE

Read....you wont, cause you dont really care


Audio expert in Martin case demanded at least six similar voice exemplars in prior case





Posted by William A. Jacobson Wednesday, April 4, 2012 at 8:56am



0



2


The big headline for the past several days has been that an audio expert hired by The Orlando Sentinel, Thomas J. Owen, had concluded that the person screaming for help on the 911 tape when a neighbor called in was not George Zimmerman because voice biometric analysis of the scream could only find a 48% match, and a much higher match (I’ve seen reference to 60% and 90% in different reports) would be needed.

The analysis was done comparing the Zimmerman 911 phone call voice with the voice on the separate 911 call from the neighbor.

Like the original ABC video tape supposedly showing Zimmerman uninjured, Owen’s analysis has caused a firestorm of pontification that Zimmerman’s self-defense argument was a lie and that Zimmerman executed Martin.

Tom Maguire has done an exellent job running down the various uncertainties with this type of voice analysis, as has Jeralyn at Talk Left, a criminal defense attorney who has used Owen as an expert in the past. The point of their numerous posts is not that Owen is wrong, but that caution must be used given the nature of voice biometric analysis which is not universally accepted and which may be subject to challenge in court as not sufficiently reliable as to be admitted in evidence.

Equally important, as Tom points out again today, such analysis normally is done using numerous similar exemplars from the subject, so that a subject saying “help” could be compare to the person on the tape saying “help.” In this case so far, however, there were no such exemplars, as an exemplar of Zimmerman’s voice screaming help was not taken so as to be compared to the 911 recording.

I’ll add just one piece of information to this mix not to prejudge the outcome either of the case or Owen’s analysis, but again to urge media caution.

In Red Ant, L.L.C v Sony Music Entertainment, Inc. , et al. (Docket No. 97 Civ. 4917), a 1997 case in federal court in the Southern District of New York (Manhattan), Owen was hired as an expert witness by the defendants to identify a voice on a tape. The court ordered the witness, Melvin Britt, to provide Owen with voice exemplars so that Owen could compare Britt speaking certain words with the voice on the tape speaking the same words.

Owen believed that Britt deliberately was not giving accurate voice exemplars so as to stymie Owen’s analysis, and a motion for sanctions was made.

The court rendered a Decision and Order on the motion for sanctions on May 15, 1998. I obtained a copy of the Order via Westlaw. Unfortunately, there is no publicly available copy that I could find (not even on the PACER system, which is not surprising since old dockets documents often have not been scanned, although the docket sheet is on the system). Since Westlaw copyrights the way in which it presents cases (but it cannot copyright the text of the case) I can’t post the Westlaw copy. For those of you with access to Westlaw, the cite is 1998 WL 249195 (S.D.N.Y.).

In the Order, the Judge laid out the procedures Owen demanded so that he could perform a proper analysis, including the requirement of at least six similar exemplars. Here’s the pertinent portion (emphasis mine):


EATON, Magistrate J.

A. Defendants’ motion for sanctions against Mr. Britt for willful failure to give useable voice exemplars

Pursuant to my March 24 order, Melvin C. Britt, II (also known as Melieck Britt) appeared in Los Angeles on April 1st and gave voice exemplars over the telephone to Thomas J. Owen, an expert in voice identification retained by the defendants.

2. The session wound up having five parts, and they were all recorded. In the first part, Mr. Britt gave exemplars for about 32 minutes, and did not come close to doing what my order required—“repeat the word in the same manner ( i.e., same emphasis and same melody pattern and same rate of speech) as requested by the expert.” In the second part, the attorneys spoke with me by telephone and I told Mr. Britt that (a) his exemplars were coming nowhere near the melody pattern, (b) I did not think it was very difficult to do what the expert was asking and (c) he should concentrate on trying to mimic the expert’s melody pattern and speed. In the third part, lasting about 5 minutes, Mr. Britt again gave exemplars, on two phrases. In the fourth part, the attorneys again spoke with me, and I said that (a) he was not even close on the second phrase, (b) he gave 3 or 4 good exemplars on the first phrase (in the course of more than 30 repetitions) and (c) I was surprised that Mr. Owen claimed that none of them were useable. I told Mr. Britt that I had heard about his speech impediment (I would not call it a stutter, but a mild tendency to repeat a word occasionally) but that I did not think it was all that hard for him to mimic Mr. Owen. (It seems to be undisputed that Mr. Britt is a singing coach.) Once again, I directed him to (a) listen very closely to what Mr. Owen was saying, and (b) deliberately try to copy his pitch and speed for another half hour. In the fifth and final part of the session, lasting about 34 minutes, Mr. Britt’s performance was substantially improved for the last 26 minutes.

3. On April 21 the defendants moved for sanctions and also for an order directing Mr. Britt to give exemplars in a second session in my presence. Mr. Owen’s April 20 declaration says:


… virtually each and every time I asked Mr. Britt to repeat a particular phrase, Mr. Britt would either speak in an obvious wooden monotone, repeat declarative statements in a question form, alter the beat or pitch of the phrases, vary the speed of the words, change the word coupling used by me or over-articulate particular linguistically significant words.

I have listened to the tape of the session, and Mr. Owen’s statement is quite accurate as to the first 32 minutes. But Mr. Britt’s performance was substantially improved for the last 26 minutes (from 6:56 to 7:22 p.m. New York time).

4. Mr. Owen further writes:


In order to complete a proper voice comparison, I regularly require six useable samples of each of the phrases I use for comparison purposes. Here, however, given Mr. Britt’s obfuscation, I do not have six useable samples of even one such phrase, despite the fact that I attempted to obtain 600 exemplars from Mr. Britt for approximately 18 phrases.

But for my present purposes (deciding whether Mr. Britt willfully disobeyed my orders) I must rely primarily on my non-expert view as to whether he provided exemplars that a reasonable person would consider to be useable. Mr. Britt’s performance was certainly not as natural as his speaking voice at his video deposition. But, in my non-expert view, Mr. Britt provided at least one useable sample in 14 of the 17 phrases tested in the last 26 minutes, namely:


(1) “If it don’t drop in March, they, they breach the contract.”

Approx. 7 repetitions, 2 useable (# 3 and # 6, approx.)

(2) “They have money.”

Approx. 3 repetitions, 2 useable (# 2 and # 3, approx.)

(3) “These are white folks, they have money.”

Approx. 4 repetitions, 2 useable (the last two)

(4) “Troy didn’t write nothing but …”

Approx. 10 repetitions, 1 useable (# 8, approx.)

(5) “… two lyrics on the first verse.”

Approx. 5 repetitions, 2 useable (the first two)

(6) “I came up with the hook.”

Approx. 18 repetitions (10 + 8 later on), 5 useable (# 3, # 6, # 9, # 10 and # 17, approx.)

(7) “So Troy can player-hate nothing.”

Approx. 9 repetitions (5 + 4 later on), 0 useable

(8) “I came up with the hook of Erotik City.”

Approx. 17 repetitions (9 + 8 later on), 3 useable (# 6, # 8 and # 15, approx.)

(9) “He’s not even hooked up to a major yet.”

Approx. 15 repetitions (9 + 6 later on), 4 useable (# 4, # 5, # 13 and # 15, approx.)

(10) “You can’t fulfill none of your obligations …”

Approx 10 repetitions, 0 useable

(11) “… until you get hooked up with a major.”

Approx 5 repetitions, 2 useable (the last two)

(12) “Trying to get you rich.”

Approx. 10 repetitions, 1 useable (# 6, approx.) [Note: 3 or 4 were useable when this phrase was tested in an earlier part of the session.]

(13) “I got ways you can get outta that shit, bro.”

Approx 10 repetitions, 2 useable (# 4 and # 10, approx.)

(14) “That’s the easiest part, that’s the ea-siest part.”

Approx. 19 repetitions, 4 useable (# 8, # 9, # 17 and # 19, approx.)

(15) “I guarantee that this shit is on, man.”

Approx. 8 repetitions, 5 useable (the last five)

(16) “It’s not Red Ant.”

Approx. 20 repetitions, 6 useable (# 5, # 13, # 14, # 15, # 16 and # 19, approx.)

(17) “Troy didn’t write nothing but ah, ah, ah two lyrics on the first verse.”

Approx. 10 repetitions, 0 useable, but see phrases (4) and (5) above.

5. To summarize, in my non-expert view, Mr. Britt provided 4 useable samples on three phrases (including “Trying to get you rich”), plus 5 useable samples on two phrases, plus 6 useable samples on one phrase. In his earlier declaration (dated March 13) Mr. Owen said at ¶ 23 that the International Association for Identification generally recommends that the text be read or recited at least 3 times, and the American Board of Recorded Evidence generally recommends 3 to 6 repetitions. I realize that an expert may need more repetitions when the subject performs poorly. Nevertheless, weighing all of the circumstances, I decline to order sanctions and I decline to order Mr. Britt to give more voice exemplars at this time. I do note, however, that plaintiff’s other arguments seem to me to be unfounded. Moreover, I disagree with the statement of plaintiff’s expert that “it is all but impossible for an individual to disguise his voice or to speak in a consistently unnatural manner for the amount of time Mr. Britt spent in the voice exemplar session.”

6. Mr. Owen will have to make do with the April 1st exemplars, plus any other samples of Mr. Britt’s voice which may be collected. I note that I was given only 5 minutes of excerpts of the videotaped deposition of Mr. Britt, and even those brief excepts have captured him speaking several of the words which appear in the crucial portions of the disputed tape.

This 1998 case does not prove that Owen is wrong in his current 911 tape analysis. Perhaps there are new techniques developed, but based on the information in Tom’s posts, the industry still seems to adhere to the standard practice of comparing numerous voice exemplars to the subject recording.

Caution is urged. The media in particular needs to think and investigate and put new drips of information in context rather than jumping to conclusions.

 

[busybody..]

and you, NIGGERWHORE, re do your VITAL thread

of who has how many posts!

LOSER

 

[busybody..]

Toledo: 78-Year-Old Man Pummeled By Six Youths Screaming “This Is For Trayvon” – “Kill That White Man”…




The Congressional Black Caucus unavailable for comment.


(Toledo Blade) — It was six against one.

Six juveniles — the youngest 11, and the oldest 17 — nearly boxed in Dallas Watts, a 78-year-old man from East Toledo.

Mr. Watts was on his way home from the nearby Gas Express Mart at Starr Avenue and White Street about 4:45 p.m. Saturday when the boys approached him.

One pointed at Mr. Watts and said, “take him down,” the victim recounted in an interview Monday.

Mr. Watts, carrying home two small bags of pork rinds to dole out as treats to his three dachshunds, looked at the youth and said, “Why you picking on me?” Mr. Watts recalled. “Remember Trayvon. Why you picking on me?”

The boy, again, allegedly told his friends to “take him down.”

Toledo police charged two children — the 11-year-old and a 17-year-old — with robbery, Sgt. Roy Kennedy said.

The boys on Monday were ordered held in detention at the Lucas County Juvenile Justice Center, prosecutor Lori Olender said.

At one point, the victim recalled being lifted from the ground so one of the boys could “drop-kick” him in the chest.

One boy, he said, put his foot on the back of the victim’s neck, with another shouting, “Kill him.”

While Mr. Watts was down the boys kicked him, over and over, shouting, “[Get] that white [man]. This is for Trayvon … Trayvon lives, white [man]. Kill that white [man],” according to a police report.

“The only reason I mentioned Trayvon, that was my defense,” Mr. Watts said. “Don’t pick on me. I am not your enemy.”

 

[busybody..]

Everything you NIGGERZ hoped for, wanted, prayed for, made up

Is falling apart


CNN: On Second Thought, Zimmerman Did Not Use a Racial Slur On 911 Call…


Of course they say this after their initial report was widely cited to drag Zimmerman’s name through the mud as a racist.




“Now it does sound less like that racial slur. … From listening in this room, and this is a state-of-the-art room, it doesn’t sound like that slur anymore. It sounds like … we‘re hearing the swear word at first and then the word ’cold.’ And the reason some say that would be relevant, is because it was unseasonably cold in Florida that night and raining.”

 

[Peregrinator]

Not a chance this would be happening if the dead kid hadn't been black.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v649/Peregrinator/Dipshit.jpg

 

[busybody..]

BullShit, NIGGERWHORE

 

[busybody..]

Not a chance this would be happening if the dead kid hadn't been black.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v649/Peregrinator/Dipshit.jpg

what you really meant, NIGGERWHORE is

If the killer was BLACK and the victim was WHITE

None of the above NIGGERZ would care

FUCKYOU and your WHORE

 

[sethp]

Smear Campaign

There's been a pretty heavy smear campaign being waged against Trayvon, especially from some conservative sources. Geraldo Rivera claiming that he was shot because of his hoodie, Conservative bloggers posting pics they claim are Trayvon that turn out not to be and even the Orlando-Sentinel running a story telling us that Trayvon laid out Zimmerman with one punch. Zimmerman outweighed him by 100 pounds or so. Check out the lies on 'Twitchy' by Michelle Malkin. Dan Riehl promotes the idea that Trayvon was a drug dealer without any hard evidence to support this. He's also being linked to people like Louis Farrakhan, whom Trayvon had never met. It's disgusting. Zimmerman needs to be put down like the Rabid dog he is.

 

[sufisaint]

Not a chance this would be happening if the dead kid hadn't been black.

I disagree, if it was a poor white kid who looked like a skinhead the same result without the media lies and hype and certainly no mention from the President.

 

[RobDownSouth]

Not a chance this would be happening if the dead kid hadn't been black.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v649/Peregrinator/Dipshit.jpg

Damn...an octuple Busybody! I think his previous record was seven!

 

[sufisaint]

There's been a pretty heavy smear campaign being waged against Trayvon, especially from some conservative sources. Geraldo Rivera claiming that he was shot because of his hoodie, Conservative bloggers posting pics they claim are Trayvon that turn out not to be and even the Orlando-Sentinel running a story telling us that Trayvon laid out Zimmerman with one punch. Zimmerman outweighed him by 100 pounds or so. Check out the lies on 'Twitchy' by Michelle Malkin. Dan Riehl promotes the idea that Trayvon was a drug dealer without any hard evidence to support this. He's also being linked to people like Louis Farrakhan, whom Trayvon had never met. It's disgusting. Zimmerman needs to be put down like the Rabid dog he is.

Get your recent "facts" straight.. Martin is over 6 foot, a football player and over 150 lbs and Zimmerman is 5 10 and 170lbs. He could easily blindside and deck Zimmerman.

 

[VaticanAssassin]

There's been a pretty heavy smear campaign being waged against Trayvon, especially from some conservative sources. Geraldo Rivera claiming that he was shot because of his hoodie, Conservative bloggers posting pics they claim are Trayvon that turn out not to be and even the Orlando-Sentinel running a story telling us that Trayvon laid out Zimmerman with one punch. Zimmerman outweighed him by 100 pounds or so. Check out the lies on 'Twitchy' by Michelle Malkin. Dan Riehl promotes the idea that Trayvon was a drug dealer without any hard evidence to support this. He's also being linked to people like Louis Farrakhan, whom Trayvon had never met. It's disgusting. Zimmerman needs to be put down like the Rabid dog he is.

Wow..... did you type that with a straight face? The smear campaign you speak of is nothing but the truth coming out after a blatant attempt by the media and politicians to get ratings, make this about race, and rally their base ( dumb asses like you).

Love how you skip the media editing the phone call, pictures, video, and reporting lies in general as if they were facts.

Hypocrite, thy name is you!

 

[Disgustipated]

I disagree, if it was a poor white kid who looked like a skinhead the same result without the media lies and hype and certainly no mention from the President.

That was a really dumb post. Go back and think about it and report back to the class.

Wow..... did you type that with a straight face? The smear campaign you speak of is nothing but the truth coming out after a blatant attempt by the media and politicians to get ratings, make this about race, and rally their base ( dumb asses like you).

Love how you skip the media editing the phone call, pictures, video, and reporting lies in general as if they were facts.

Hypocrite, thy name is you!

I wouldn't say anything about the "facts" being presented or released are based on truth coming from anyone at this point. We really need to let the shit dry from the wall so we can separate fact from fiction.

 

[Peregrinator]

I disagree, if it was a poor white kid who looked like a skinhead the same result without the media lies and hype and certainly no mention from the President.

I meant specifically that whenever there's a chance to make a black person look bad, busybody carpet bombs the thread like that. He'll never admit it openly, but he hates black people and revels in it when one is killed. He'll do everything he can, repeat every lie and opinion piece over and over, to make it look like the kid deserved it. I'm NOT taking a position on the actual case; I was just commenting on how busybody yells when he thinks there's a chance a dead black person might not have been killed for a good reason.

 

[Disgustipated]

That was a really dumb post. Go back and think about it and report back to the class.

I meant specifically that whenever there's a chance to make a black person look bad, busybody carpet bombs the thread like that. He'll never admit it openly, but he hates black people and revels in it when one is killed. He'll do everything he can, repeat every lie and opinion piece over and over, to make it look like the kid deserved it. I'm NOT taking a position on the actual case; I was just commenting on how busybody yells when he thinks there's a chance a dead black person might not have been killed for a good reason.

Goddamnit Pereg!

 

[koalabear]

I meant specifically that whenever there's a chance to make a black person look bad, busybody carpet bombs the thread like that. He'll never admit it openly, but he hates black people and revels in it when one is killed. He'll do everything he can, repeat every lie and opinion piece over and over, to make it look like the kid deserved it. I'm NOT taking a position on the actual case; I was just commenting on how busybody yells when he thinks there's a chance a dead black person might not have been killed for a good reason.

What would be a good reason?

 

[evesdream]

Goddamnit Pereg!

Oh, it was dumb for more reasons than that.

 

[VaticanAssassin]

That was a really dumb post. Go back and think about it and report back to the class.




I wouldn't say anything about the "facts" being presented or released are based on truth coming from anyone at this point. We really need to let the shit dry from the wall so we can separate fact from fiction.

Can not believe I am typing this, but you are correct.


Perg,

Do you really believe BB is real? Not so me over drawn character he plays on Lit? I honestly would not be shocked if he was a die hard liberal playing at being a right winnger.......... What if his real persona was someone like King Dip Shit?