4est_4est_Gump
Run Forrest! RUN!
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Legions aired disease...
Justice for Trayvon??
- Thread starter Ishmael
- Start date
U
unregistered
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RobDownSouth
No Kings
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I KNOW!
Let's doctor the tapes! Throb&Friends will believe the story is true, even if the tape is a forgery!
Always tellin' me what I "really believe".
Your lack of character explains why you could never qualify to adopt an American child.
4est_4est_Gump
Run Forrest! RUN!
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busybody..
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4est_4est_Gump
Run Forrest! RUN!
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You outed me.
My driveway has a gate.
My driveway has a gate.
M
miles
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The evidence in is the White House.
busybody..
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4est_4est_Gump
Run Forrest! RUN!
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you want to KEEP out a certain segment of society! WHY? You are a BIGOT!
This is true.
The Jehova's witnesses were driving me Miss Daisy...
Ishmael
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It is a gated community, just no guards at the gates. Swipe a card or punch in a number and the gate opens. Which brings us to the next point, the community watch program was not through the HOA. That was set up through the county/city and law enforcement. It's hard to imagine the lawyer finding a party to sue.
Ishmael
4est_4est_Gump
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Last edited:
busybody..
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if the suit works
neighborhood watch groups
nationwide
will disband
opening up wide swaths of communities
to CRIME
MAKE WORK FOR THE NIGGERS
ironically enough, who will be hurt the most?
neighborhood watch groups
nationwide
will disband
opening up wide swaths of communities
to CRIME
MAKE WORK FOR THE NIGGERS
ironically enough, who will be hurt the most?
Ishmael
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A lawyer not being able to find somebody to sue...
That's comedy gold.
Oh, you can sue anyone. If you have no chance of hitting the jack pot, why bother? The attorney in this case has to figure out a way to get to the developer.
Ishmael
4est_4est_Gump
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Last edited:
4est_4est_Gump
Run Forrest! RUN!
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Ishmael
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Many lawyers and rev'runds make a perfectly good living on settlements...
Sure they do, when they go after corporate targets.
Ishmael
4est_4est_Gump
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Someone earlier mentioned the GC insurance policy...
RobDownSouth
No Kings
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God bless those abortion clinic bombers, right Chief?
Ishmael
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Someone earlier mentioned the GC insurance policy...
It all depends on how the covenants are written up. In most cases with those type communities the GC is essentially out of the loop on all HOA activities.
Getting back to the point though, wouldn't this make it just another attempt to cash in as opposed to the seeking of justice?
"You say you haven't been the same since you had your little crash
But you might feel better if they gave you some cash"
Ishmael
J
JAMESBJOHNSON
Guest
A lawyer not being able to find somebody to sue...
That's comedy gold.
The organized looting didnt workout as planned, so I assume the Happy Hustlers are aimed at settlements to keep the peace.
busybody..
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I know you NIGGERS are NOT intererested in facts, only in your own warped prejudiced bull shit
I know you NIGGERZ wont read this
But I dont care
read
Trayvon Martin - Are There Any Media People In New York City?
There is a conference on voice biometrics in New York city April 3-4. Will any media be there?
Jeralyn Merritt, the Talk Left defense attorney, oftens finds herself in odd positions during the media meltdowns involving politically fashionable defendants. While Dirty Harry conservatives are normally the ones who want to trample avoid being overly solicitous of defendant's rights sometimes (Duke Lacrosse, Kobe Bryant) roles shift. In any case, if I were in a jam I would hire her in a second; we could talk politics later.
Today she has a post that is supportive of facts and the law, but not so much for the pro-Martin crowd. She highlights a conference on Voice Biometrics opening in New York City on April 3-4, wonders whether anyone's media budget can afford the $699 registration fee, and looks at the legal standards for admissibilty of the 911 Scream evidence in a Trayvon Martin killing.
Ms. Merritt also expresses some skepticism about the Orlando Sentinel 'Scream' piece with the two self-refuting voice experts. I will say, read it all.
SEND IN THE EXPERTS:
Let me aggregate the links I have found to various firms that provide expert witness services in audio forensics, as well as excerpts of the discussion they offer on its limitations. Do keep in mind that the Orlando Sentinel had available as evidence (a) the background screams on the gunshot 911 call; (b) George Zimmerman's 911 call (spoken voice); and (c) nothing at all for Trayvon Martin; down the road, that may change, just as Martin's voice surely changed with the years.
We can start with Tom Owen, the lead expert in the Orlando Sentinel piece.
The examiner can only work with speech samples which are the same as the text of the unknown recording. Under the best of circumstances the suspects will repeat, several times, the text of the recording of the unknown speaker and these words will be recorded in a similar manner to the recording of the unknown speaker. For example, if the recording of the unknown speaker was a bomb threat made to a recorded telephone line then each of the suspects would repeat the threat, word for word, to a recorded telephone line. This will provide the examiner with not only the same speech sounds for comparison but also with valuable information about the way each speech sound completes the transition to the next sound.
There are those times when a voice sample must be obtained without the knowledge of the suspect. It is possible to make an identification from a surreptitious recording but the amount of speech necessary to do the comparison is usually much greater. If the suspect is being engaged in conversation for the purpose of obtaining a voice sample, the conversation must be manipulated in such a way so as to have the suspect repeat as many of the words and phrases found in the text of the unknown recording as possible.
The worst exemplar recordings with which an examiner must work are those of random speech. It is necessary to obtain a large sample of speech to improve the chances of obtaining a sufficient amount of comparable speech.
Yet he claimed to be able to get a meaningful test of screams to speech to the Orlando Sentinel. Ms. Merritt notes his financial stake in this - he just rolled out his new voice matching software to police departments everywhere. Normally the media loves this sort of conflict of interest story - time will tell.
The second Orlando Sentinel expert was Mr. Primeau, who was quoted as follows:
"I believe that's Trayvon Martin in the background, without a doubt," Primeau says, stressing that the tone of the voice is a giveaway. "That's a young man screaming."
Yet he admits to never having heard a tape of Martin's voice. For all he or I know, Martin would bring down the house on Saturday night doing his impression of Barry White, yet he is sure that voice is Martin. Extraordinary. Not admissible, but extraordinary. Let's go to his website:
4. When conducting voice identification, it is important to create an exemplar of the accused for audio comparison using as exact conditions and equipment as close as possible to the measurements taken from the evidence as outlined above. The speech must be the same as the speech on the evidence in order for the testing to be accurate. As an audio forensic expert, I often have to coach the accused into the same energetic voice tone and inflection as the evidence recording. However, it is still possible to compare speech if the exemplar is not as close to the evidence as I would like.
So far it seems as if the defense counsel for Zimmerman could hire either of these guys to disqualify their own story to the Orlando Sentinel.
Another expert - Stuchman Forensic Laboratory, Advocate for Evidence Since 1992:
Collection of Exemplar
It is recommended that the exemplar of the known voice must be collected in as close to the same manor as the recording of the unknown voice was recorded. For example, if the recording of the unknown voice was recorded over the phone, the exemplar of the known voice should be collected over the phone, etc. When the exemplar is collected, the suspect is asked by the examiner to stay the same words in the same way as they were spoken by the unknown person. In other words, in a normal, natural voice.
No screaming.
Here is Forensic Science Services describing the techniques as they are applied in Canada:
Voice Identification
The spectrographic voice identification analysis has two steps. The sound of speech is first transformed into a three dimensional (time - frequency - volume) graphic pictures which do reveal numerous acoustical features of an individual’s voice. The second step involves the pattern comparison of the same phrases/sentences from the unknown sample and the suspect’s sample. The results of analysis are expressed as:
• ◦Probably the same speaker (high level of confidence).
◦Possibly the same speaker (intermediate level of confidence).
◦Inconclusive (due to the insufficient number of comparison words, poor quality of recordings, too high variability of the voice, possible disguise).
◦Possibly not same speaker (intermediate level of confidence).
◦Probably not the same speaker (high level of confidence).
The results depend on quality of recordings, the total number of comparison words, speakers’ condition, and individual speakers’ voice variability. There is a requirement for a minimum number of 20 comparison words in a ‘connected speech’. The suspect should provide the comparison sample by reading three times the transcript of the unknown voice sample.
No screaming.
That is four experts, all on the same side of the issue. And (trust me or not!) I am not cherry-picking here - finding more firms that describe their methods and requirements at their website should be possible, but I hoovered up everyone I could find (hence, Canada). We welcome more experts!
Now, Jacob Sullum wondered whether an aggressive prosecutor could, in order to establish probable cause or secure an indictment, use evidence he knew/suspected would not be admissible in court. IANAL, but extensive review of Law & Order as well as comments from people who *are* lawyers reminds me that an ethical prosecutor won't use evidence he knows can't be used at trial.
What the sanctions are, and what constitutes "knowledge of inadmissibility" in the case of this sort of audio evidence I do not know. For example, would an indictment that relied on audio evidence later found to be inadmissible be dismissed? Would the prosecutor be sanctioned if he could not convince a judge it was a good faith mistake? I don't know.
But my *GUESS* is that neither Federal nor State prosecutors will be able to find credible experts to green light this evidence. So no audio ex machina for the prosecution.
MAINTAINING STANDRDS: Ms. Merritt explains the 'Daubert' standard for the admissibility of technical evidence in Federal courts. We have been advised by Sue that... well, here it is:
I just looked it up, Florida is one of the states that uses Frye not Daubert. Either way, this guy probably wouldn't pass as an expert.
This Hahvahd mahn says Florida is a Frye state for purposes of a state trial. Would that apply to federal charges brought in Florida? I can't afford the lawyers to sort this out, but one presumes a uniformity of Federal standards, which means Daubert would be it.
LOOKING FOR LONGSHOTS: Any chance Trayvon Martin sang in a church or school choir (being a choirboy and all)? If he was a bass, or a soprano, that might be contemporary and objective evidence of his voice timbre. Well, rather than an audio from a few years ago, for example. That is an easy question for his family to answer, althogh I doubt Ben Crump will think it serves the family's interests to stand in front of a mike and tell us that Trayvon Martin was a basso profundo.
I DEPLORE HER PESSIMISTIC CONCLUSION: Ms Merritt on the upcoming expert conference:
In the meantime, maybe the case will be brought up at the biometrics conference tomorrow and there will be some tweeting about it.
Tweeting? I won't to see interviews on the mean streets of the greatest city in the world. LIVE! I know what I smell, but these newsies ought to smell a story.
I know you NIGGERZ wont read this
But I dont care
read
Trayvon Martin - Are There Any Media People In New York City?
There is a conference on voice biometrics in New York city April 3-4. Will any media be there?
Jeralyn Merritt, the Talk Left defense attorney, oftens finds herself in odd positions during the media meltdowns involving politically fashionable defendants. While Dirty Harry conservatives are normally the ones who want to trample avoid being overly solicitous of defendant's rights sometimes (Duke Lacrosse, Kobe Bryant) roles shift. In any case, if I were in a jam I would hire her in a second; we could talk politics later.
Today she has a post that is supportive of facts and the law, but not so much for the pro-Martin crowd. She highlights a conference on Voice Biometrics opening in New York City on April 3-4, wonders whether anyone's media budget can afford the $699 registration fee, and looks at the legal standards for admissibilty of the 911 Scream evidence in a Trayvon Martin killing.
Ms. Merritt also expresses some skepticism about the Orlando Sentinel 'Scream' piece with the two self-refuting voice experts. I will say, read it all.
SEND IN THE EXPERTS:
Let me aggregate the links I have found to various firms that provide expert witness services in audio forensics, as well as excerpts of the discussion they offer on its limitations. Do keep in mind that the Orlando Sentinel had available as evidence (a) the background screams on the gunshot 911 call; (b) George Zimmerman's 911 call (spoken voice); and (c) nothing at all for Trayvon Martin; down the road, that may change, just as Martin's voice surely changed with the years.
We can start with Tom Owen, the lead expert in the Orlando Sentinel piece.
The examiner can only work with speech samples which are the same as the text of the unknown recording. Under the best of circumstances the suspects will repeat, several times, the text of the recording of the unknown speaker and these words will be recorded in a similar manner to the recording of the unknown speaker. For example, if the recording of the unknown speaker was a bomb threat made to a recorded telephone line then each of the suspects would repeat the threat, word for word, to a recorded telephone line. This will provide the examiner with not only the same speech sounds for comparison but also with valuable information about the way each speech sound completes the transition to the next sound.
There are those times when a voice sample must be obtained without the knowledge of the suspect. It is possible to make an identification from a surreptitious recording but the amount of speech necessary to do the comparison is usually much greater. If the suspect is being engaged in conversation for the purpose of obtaining a voice sample, the conversation must be manipulated in such a way so as to have the suspect repeat as many of the words and phrases found in the text of the unknown recording as possible.
The worst exemplar recordings with which an examiner must work are those of random speech. It is necessary to obtain a large sample of speech to improve the chances of obtaining a sufficient amount of comparable speech.
Yet he claimed to be able to get a meaningful test of screams to speech to the Orlando Sentinel. Ms. Merritt notes his financial stake in this - he just rolled out his new voice matching software to police departments everywhere. Normally the media loves this sort of conflict of interest story - time will tell.
The second Orlando Sentinel expert was Mr. Primeau, who was quoted as follows:
"I believe that's Trayvon Martin in the background, without a doubt," Primeau says, stressing that the tone of the voice is a giveaway. "That's a young man screaming."
Yet he admits to never having heard a tape of Martin's voice. For all he or I know, Martin would bring down the house on Saturday night doing his impression of Barry White, yet he is sure that voice is Martin. Extraordinary. Not admissible, but extraordinary. Let's go to his website:
4. When conducting voice identification, it is important to create an exemplar of the accused for audio comparison using as exact conditions and equipment as close as possible to the measurements taken from the evidence as outlined above. The speech must be the same as the speech on the evidence in order for the testing to be accurate. As an audio forensic expert, I often have to coach the accused into the same energetic voice tone and inflection as the evidence recording. However, it is still possible to compare speech if the exemplar is not as close to the evidence as I would like.
So far it seems as if the defense counsel for Zimmerman could hire either of these guys to disqualify their own story to the Orlando Sentinel.
Another expert - Stuchman Forensic Laboratory, Advocate for Evidence Since 1992:
Collection of Exemplar
It is recommended that the exemplar of the known voice must be collected in as close to the same manor as the recording of the unknown voice was recorded. For example, if the recording of the unknown voice was recorded over the phone, the exemplar of the known voice should be collected over the phone, etc. When the exemplar is collected, the suspect is asked by the examiner to stay the same words in the same way as they were spoken by the unknown person. In other words, in a normal, natural voice.
No screaming.
Here is Forensic Science Services describing the techniques as they are applied in Canada:
Voice Identification
The spectrographic voice identification analysis has two steps. The sound of speech is first transformed into a three dimensional (time - frequency - volume) graphic pictures which do reveal numerous acoustical features of an individual’s voice. The second step involves the pattern comparison of the same phrases/sentences from the unknown sample and the suspect’s sample. The results of analysis are expressed as:
• ◦Probably the same speaker (high level of confidence).
◦Possibly the same speaker (intermediate level of confidence).
◦Inconclusive (due to the insufficient number of comparison words, poor quality of recordings, too high variability of the voice, possible disguise).
◦Possibly not same speaker (intermediate level of confidence).
◦Probably not the same speaker (high level of confidence).
The results depend on quality of recordings, the total number of comparison words, speakers’ condition, and individual speakers’ voice variability. There is a requirement for a minimum number of 20 comparison words in a ‘connected speech’. The suspect should provide the comparison sample by reading three times the transcript of the unknown voice sample.
No screaming.
That is four experts, all on the same side of the issue. And (trust me or not!) I am not cherry-picking here - finding more firms that describe their methods and requirements at their website should be possible, but I hoovered up everyone I could find (hence, Canada). We welcome more experts!
Now, Jacob Sullum wondered whether an aggressive prosecutor could, in order to establish probable cause or secure an indictment, use evidence he knew/suspected would not be admissible in court. IANAL, but extensive review of Law & Order as well as comments from people who *are* lawyers reminds me that an ethical prosecutor won't use evidence he knows can't be used at trial.
What the sanctions are, and what constitutes "knowledge of inadmissibility" in the case of this sort of audio evidence I do not know. For example, would an indictment that relied on audio evidence later found to be inadmissible be dismissed? Would the prosecutor be sanctioned if he could not convince a judge it was a good faith mistake? I don't know.
But my *GUESS* is that neither Federal nor State prosecutors will be able to find credible experts to green light this evidence. So no audio ex machina for the prosecution.
MAINTAINING STANDRDS: Ms. Merritt explains the 'Daubert' standard for the admissibility of technical evidence in Federal courts. We have been advised by Sue that... well, here it is:
I just looked it up, Florida is one of the states that uses Frye not Daubert. Either way, this guy probably wouldn't pass as an expert.
This Hahvahd mahn says Florida is a Frye state for purposes of a state trial. Would that apply to federal charges brought in Florida? I can't afford the lawyers to sort this out, but one presumes a uniformity of Federal standards, which means Daubert would be it.
LOOKING FOR LONGSHOTS: Any chance Trayvon Martin sang in a church or school choir (being a choirboy and all)? If he was a bass, or a soprano, that might be contemporary and objective evidence of his voice timbre. Well, rather than an audio from a few years ago, for example. That is an easy question for his family to answer, althogh I doubt Ben Crump will think it serves the family's interests to stand in front of a mike and tell us that Trayvon Martin was a basso profundo.
I DEPLORE HER PESSIMISTIC CONCLUSION: Ms Merritt on the upcoming expert conference:
In the meantime, maybe the case will be brought up at the biometrics conference tomorrow and there will be some tweeting about it.
Tweeting? I won't to see interviews on the mean streets of the greatest city in the world. LIVE! I know what I smell, but these newsies ought to smell a story.
busybody..
Literotica Guru
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Yes... I'm afraid that young black men are being hunted down in the streets... and the statistics show... by other young black men. Facts
Karen Kraft
29
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Seems to me, there's an awful lot of talk and posturing around this case, much of which might be worth more were we to wait and see what the investigators determine happened. Jamming the present situation into the mold of white black race relations of fifty years ago isn't an absolute prerequisite here. Why not wait and see what the investigation(s) tell us and then opine?
J
JAMESBJOHNSON
Guest
Cuz this is an opportunity for looting and paydays. The middleclass loves peace more than life, blacks know it, and jump at the middleclass angst while its hot.
busybody..
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T Mart is dead, his "parents" will collect millions and buy BLING BLING!
ObamaNom ICKS!
ObamaNom ICKS!
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