Have the underage guidelines been tightened?

[manyeyedhydra]

I had my latest submission rejected with this reason:

"We do not post stories in which a character speaks, acts, or is physically under the age of 18. The character's physical age is what counts - so an ancient spirit in an underage body is still underage by our rules."

The problem character is a shape-shifting succubus that sometimes takes on the form of a young girl. She has tripped Lit's auto-filter before, but a note letting them know she is described as clearly not human and doesn't feature in any sexual activity while in that form is normally enough to get the story posted. (The character is comic relief - the moment the erotica starts, she's not around). This story is no different.

From the rejection note it sounds like the underage policy has tightened from "No stories featuring underage characters getting involved in or being exposed to sexual activity" to "No stories featuring underage characters at all."

Can anyone confirm if this is the case?

 

[TxRad]

I had my latest submission rejected with this reason:

"We do not post stories in which a character speaks, acts, or is physically under the age of 18. The character's physical age is what counts - so an ancient spirit in an underage body is still underage by our rules."

The problem character is a shape-shifting succubus that sometimes takes on the form of a young girl. She has tripped Lit's auto-filter before, but a note letting them know she is described as clearly not human and doesn't feature in any sexual activity while in that form is normally enough to get the story posted. (The character is comic relief - the moment the erotica starts, she's not around). This story is no different.

From the rejection note it sounds like the underage policy has tightened from "No stories featuring underage characters getting involved in or being exposed to sexual activity" to "No stories featuring underage characters at all."

Can anyone confirm if this is the case?

People have been trying to circumvent the underage rule to the point of even discussing how to do it here in the AH. If Laurel did her usual scan through the thread and saw that one then yeah there has probably been some tightening.

 

[lovecraft68]

I had my latest submission rejected with this reason:

"We do not post stories in which a character speaks, acts, or is physically under the age of 18. The character's physical age is what counts - so an ancient spirit in an underage body is still underage by our rules."

The problem character is a shape-shifting succubus that sometimes takes on the form of a young girl. She has tripped Lit's auto-filter before, but a note letting them know she is described as clearly not human and doesn't feature in any sexual activity while in that form is normally enough to get the story posted. (The character is comic relief - the moment the erotica starts, she's not around). This story is no different.

From the rejection note it sounds like the underage policy has tightened from "No stories featuring underage characters getting involved in or being exposed to sexual activity" to "No stories featuring underage characters at all."

Can anyone confirm if this is the case?

Whether she is possessed or not if the body is under age it's under age.

To answer your question though, it does seem like they are "catching on" to this particular ploy.

The EH/NH has been able to slip this through under the guise of "possession" for awhile now, but maybe someone complained enough or she maybe just noticed it and decided to crack down on it.

From what you say that's not really what you're doing, but others have and they tend to lump it all together.


And once they are "on to" something they don;t reason about it.

The line about "acting" under age is a little vague and strikes me that it could be something to cause problems.

 

[PennLady]

From the rejection note it sounds like the underage policy has tightened from "No stories featuring underage characters getting involved in or being exposed to sexual activity" to "No stories featuring underage characters at all."

Can anyone confirm if this is the case?

I can't but I'd be curious to know, too. I've since taken it down, but I had a story up (Numbers Game) where the main character would have scenes with her niece and nephew. It was never a problem.

 

[manyeyedhydra]

People have been trying to circumvent the underage rule to the point of even discussing how to do it here in the AH. If Laurel did her usual scan through the thread and saw that one then yeah there has probably been some tightening.

Ah, sounds like I might be collateral damage then.

It's unfortunate as there wasn't any attempt at circumvention in this case, but it's their site and their rules, and I can understand if they want to err on the side of caution on this.

 

[lovecraft68]

I can't but I'd be curious to know, too. I've since taken it down, but I had a story up (Numbers Game) where the main character would have scenes with her niece and nephew. It was never a problem.

Usually when they do this, its in response to something. Maybe they got a recent glut of complaints on similar stories.

The wording seems different then the standard under age rejection, unless they have recently changed it.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Whether she is possessed or not if the body is under age it's under age.

To answer your question though, it does seem like they are "catching on" to this particular ploy.

The EH/NH has been able to slip this through under the guise of "possession" for awhile now, but maybe someone complained enough or she maybe just noticed it and decided to crack down on it.

From what you say that's not really what you're doing, but others have and they tend to lump it all together.


And once they are "on to" something they don;t reason about it.

The line about "acting" under age is a little vague and strikes me that it could be something to cause problems.

"Acting underage" has been a no-no for a long time. I wrote an incest story, Little Mandy and Her Daddy about a 20 year woman and her father in which she pretended to be about eight years old during the sexual action. They had all the props, including stuffed animals on the bed and her Power Puff Girls nighty. I got some interesting feedback on that one. Later, I wrote Little Mandy and Her Daddy's Shower, and it was similar. She was still 20 yo and got into the shower with him wearing her Brownie Scout uniform and sucked him off. That one was rejected on the grounds that she was acting so young. I resubmitted it with her wearing her college cheerleading costume, and that was okay, except they put quotation marks around Little, which caused it to become the most read, voted on and commented on story I have ever written.

 

[sr71plt]

We'll see if my current submission has trouble getting through. It's the first one I've posted a "look, see, no underage" note for the editor on. The story looks like it's an underage setup, but it's not--and no character is under 19 (or had sex under 18). If the bot's gotten hypersensitive, though, it might have trouble.

 

[PennLady]

Usually when they do this, its in response to something. Maybe they got a recent glut of complaints on similar stories.

The wording seems different then the standard under age rejection, unless they have recently changed it.

Oh, I took NG down way before this happened. I was just saying that in that story, there were two young kids, but never in a sexual situation (obviously). So I wondered if such things had changed. Seems kind of crazy, as there are a lot of stories on here about single parents and such. So if you took out all the legit stories that have under-18 characters, well, you'd take out a lot.

 

[sr71plt]

A "fun" aside. One of my publishers has said that, as a by-product of this Paypal/Swashwords incident, we can't use "older-younger" anymore as a tag for the e-book market distributors. The distributors' bots interpret that as underage. We have to use "May December" or "Age Difference" not to set the crawlers off.

 

[wet_special]

Ah, sounds like I might be collateral damage then.

It's unfortunate as there wasn't any attempt at circumvention in this case, but it's their site and their rules, and I can understand if they want to err on the side of caution on this.

I remember this character, as I've been a fan of your summoning series. In the old story there was certainly no attempt to circumvent the rules. Aesthetically this character had no aspects pertaining to youth, she was old and mysterious and powerful, left the main character feeling I guess bewildered and vulnerable. The internet censors cometh I guess. Sorry mang.

 

[manyeyedhydra]

I remember this character, as I've been a fan of your summoning series. In the old story there was certainly no attempt to circumvent the rules. Aesthetically this character had no aspects pertaining to youth, she was old and mysterious and powerful, left the main character feeling I guess bewildered and vulnerable. The internet censors cometh I guess. Sorry mang.

She's exactly the same in this one. She teaches him some summoning techniques and then runs away to leave him with the succubus-type creature he manages to summon.

I would try resubmitting, but I can't edit it to remove any underage activity as there wasn't any in the first place, and I already included a note to say the character isn't around when the story gets hot'n'heavy, so I don't see the second attempt being any more successful than the first.

No biggie. I'll post it to my blog and on some other sites.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Four years ago, I submitted a story named Bobbie's Birthday Bash. I was sorely tempted to call it Bobbie's Seventh Birthday Bash and described it as celebrating her seventh birthday with a group of horny men, but decided not to. It really was her seventh birthday. She was born on Leap Day, and was actually 28 at the time of the story, but had celebrated only six birthdays before the one in the story.

It probably would have been rejected, but it might have been fun trying.

 

[Darkniciad]

The rejection on yours seems a little odd, M.E.H. I would actually ask Laurel for a clarification through PM if I were you. It could be a matter of how she's presented, though.

I tend to introduce my next generation of characters in the Wood series as kids with brief cameos before I give them a starring role in later stories, so we'll see what happens there eventually -- though I'm not doing it in the Earth Day story.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

People have been trying to circumvent the underage rule to the point of even discussing how to do it here in the AH. If Laurel did her usual scan through the thread and saw that one then yeah there has probably been some tightening.

Dear Reader

Our fingers are crossed for Laurel to squash posters, like the above, going thru their 2nd childhoods.

 

[TxRad]

JBJ, I ain't through with my first childhood yet. Ya old fart.

 

[lovecraft68]

A "fun" aside. One of my publishers has said that, as a by-product of this Paypal/Swashwords incident, we can't use "older-younger" anymore as a tag for the e-book market distributors. The distributors' bots interpret that as underage. We have to use "May December" or "Age Difference" not to set the crawlers off.

Not really a fun aside, it's kind of BS, if the character is at least 18 it shouldn't matter if their sexual partner is 75.

Younger does not mean a child it means they are younger than the other party.

For example I'm younger than you, but in my forties.

Seeing Paypal put its tail between its legs I'm surprised anyone is taking any measures.

I'm assuming Smashwords themselves would still use older younger as they said they are defaulting to their previous all but "anything goes" policies.

 

[lovecraft68]

Four years ago, I submitted a story named Bobbie's Birthday Bash. I was sorely tempted to call it Bobbie's Seventh Birthday Bash and described it as celebrating her seventh birthday with a group of horny men, but decided not to. It really was her seventh birthday. She was born on Leap Day, and was actually 28 at the time of the story, but had celebrated only six birthdays before the one in the story.

It probably would have been rejected, but it might have been fun trying.

I have a cousin who was born on leap year. On her twentieth birthday I gopt her a five year old's birthday card.

But you would have never got that through here.

 

[manyeyedhydra]

The rejection on yours seems a little odd, M.E.H. I would actually ask Laurel for a clarification through PM if I were you. It could be a matter of how she's presented, though.

Possibly. Here's a link to the story if anyone's interested.

http://manyeyedhydra.blogspot.com/2012/03/brand-new-manyeyedhydra-story-crlan.html

I know it's iffy protocol to link a story that's been rejected, but I'm curious to know where I might have fallen foul of the rules. I definitely don't want to be writing stories that are seen as underage!

It's also the tentacle story I mentioned I was working on a while back.

 

[sr71plt]

I'm assuming Smashwords themselves would still use older younger as they said they are defaulting to their previous all but "anything goes" policies.

So far Smashwords hasn't reverted as far as claimed.

 

[lovecraft68]

So far Smashwords hasn't reverted as far as claimed.

I have not submitted anything there since about a week before the paypal thing started so I'll take your word for it.

I don't think I use older younger anyway. Wondering if you can still tag your incest as incest over there?

Guess I'll find out soon enough I'm trying to get something up by mid week.

 

[sr71plt]

I have not submitted anything there since about a week before the paypal thing started so I'll take your word for it.

I don't think I use older younger anyway. Wondering if you can still tag your incest as incest over there?

Guess I'll find out soon enough I'm trying to get something up by mid week.

My publishers have purged any hint of incest everywhere. That's what led me to question R. Richard's "new" book posting a couple of days ago that has "incest" in the subtitle. But it turns out he wasn't posting a new book at all. His had been released last August.

 

[lovecraft68]

My publishers have purged any hint of incest everywhere. That's what led me to question R. Richard's "new" book posting a couple of days ago that has "incest" in the subtitle. But it turns out he wasn't posting a new book at all. His had been released last August.

Okay, but that is your publishers choice. According to the updates, Smashwords is supposedly doing "business as usual" as if paypal never happened which includes incest.

I never removed my titles during the scare, because my gut told me paypal was going to at least grant more time and I wanted to make out on the "panic sales" which I did. I sold more titles that weekend than I had all the previous month.

The publishers are maybe paranoid now and figure why bother, because if not now then eventually they will have to.

I repeat what I have said in the past, I don't know what the issue is with over 18 consensual incest. The shit sells. I think the problem is that it seems to offend people how well it sells.

This brings me to something I thought of last night. My wife was watching that stupid American Idol and someone was singing the song from Blue Lagoon.

Blue Lagoon was about incest. A major Hollywood film that is now 30 years old and it was about incest. Here were are decades later and everyone is squickish of it. I though taboos advanced with time not deteriorated.

 

[sr71plt]

Okay, but that is your publishers choice. According to the updates, Smashwords is supposedly doing "business as usual" as if paypal never happened which includes incest.

Ummm, no. That was my publishers continually recasting to get books reactivated again. It isn't all done yet.

It's certainly not activity either one of them would choose to do (one of them is Selena Kitt).

And although you love to speculate on why my writing is doing what it is, I won't speculate on why Smashwords and other distributors haven't deactivated whatever you have published.

 

[lovecraft68]

Ummm, no. That was my publishers continually recasting to get books reactivated again. It isn't all done yet.

It's certainly not activity either one of them would choose to do (one of them is Selena Kitt).

I just went ahead for the hell of it and posted a book on SW using all the incest tags.

It wasn't complete and I unpublished it as soon as it went through the que (which was only about a dozen when I put it in)

So it looks as if there is not a problem posting incest there just like there was not in the past.

Selena has never dealt with incest or the other of the big three. Her concerns in this were when they started making noise about BDSM and other "objectionable" material, with of course vague guidelines on what was objectionable.

If anyone is pulling things now, it is out of choice, not need. Paypal has retooled their terms of service and this supposedly won't be an issue, for now anyway.

I still wish someone from one of the CC companies would go after paypal from lying through their teeth about their involvement in this.