Poems from Fractured_Soul (Feedback welcome)

Fractured_Soul

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I was recommended by a friend to start posting some of my poetry on here. Most of my poems are short moment of inspiration type pieces. So, to start of my thread is a poem I wrote for a special girl's birthday.

I call you Angel with a loving sigh
Your words more soothing than any lullaby
In sickness and in varying health
You give me riches far greater than wealth
So another year has come and gone
Another year as our lives go on
I'm here for you, many miles away
To be your prince charming, I strongly do say.



Secondly a poem more random in nature.


I really like odd words with rhythm and rhyme.
Also foods I enjoy like parsley, sage, rosemary and thyme,
Some words however simply do not get along
Rhyming purple, orange, or silver won't make a song.
Unless, of course, you happen to be named Dr. Seuss
Since mine is not, I must come across as largely obtuse
So I relax into my world of games, heroes and cartoons
Waiting for that special girl for whom my heart swoons.
 
The first one is of the "one fits all" hallmark type of so-called hallmark poetry, which is not poetry at all.

The second one is more interesting but way too much full of the author her/himself (or lirical subject). There is nothing but me-me-me and me again.

Regards,
 
as a newcomer to poetry, most of us invest heavily of ourselves into lines that lack the polish of more seasoned writers. we put a whole lot of i, me, and genuinely heartfelt emotional content into them - and that's why it's easy to feel slapped in the face by critique. i don't know how new you are to writing, but i see plenty of opportunity for improvement - which is a positive thing!

it seems that you are in that place of getting down the what you want to say but are still learning (as we all are) the best way to write how you want to say it. skills accumulate with experience with the act of writing and reading, and making constructive comments of your own on others' writes. it helps one clarify certain things when one has to dissect the words of another. often we are too close (emotionally or time-wise) to our own writings to be able to see them as others do.

with your first here, i feel the sentiments but also that the piece suffers due to shoe-horned rhymes, particularly that last line. simplistic poetry doesn't have to be 'bad' poetry, and i don't doubt the special person you wrote it for was delighted with your expressions of love. us here, though, are not invested in you that way, and simply address the lines before us; they failed to move me since i found them too saccharine for my taste and found nothing new in how the sentiments were being expressed. which is fine, since i've written stuff like it as well - with time i see how these are building blocks we have to understand and gather to us before we can learn to construct 'real' poetry.

your second piece - i have no problems with it being so much about its author; it's a virtual introduction of yourself to us here. ok, it's full of cheesiness and cliché, but it also speaks of a light-hearted, youthful personality. i don't see much benefit in trying to tinker too much with these pieces, honestly, but please keep writing and investing your truth into your future writes.
 
While any feedback is appreciated I would like criticism to be constructive. I'm fine if you dislike my poetry, but please keep in mind the feedback guidelines which I will conveniently provide here.

http://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=7668265&postcount=3
Hi there FS. Welcome to the PoBo forum and let me say that you have been well-advised to post a thread here.

You've asked for feedback and not specifically for critique, although structured critique is also a form of feedback. With that said in defence of Senna, he gave you an honest opinion of exactly what he found to detract from your writing. As far as his comments being nonconstructive, I don't see it that way at all since you have been provided with insight as to how to reverse the effects of forced rhyme, an out-of-focus lyrical subject and ways to appeal to a much broader audience.

On the positive side of the comments -- If you like greeting card poems, then you've been given a compliment, if you do not, then accept the comment of "hallmark poetry" as a reflection of exactly what you posted. It's a glass half full or half empty sort of feedback. Work with it or leave it alone... you decide. Every word written about your work can be accepted or rejected freely and with no hard feelings. This is YOUR poetry and you make choices about it.

The second poem is more interesting since it is playful and has a bit of a lesson tied to it. But again, you should really look at changing the point of view there just because making your poem more universal in application will only improve it.

I hope you decide to stay and become part of our community. Your opinions and insight into other poet's writing would be a valuable contribution that only you can make. Stick around and read some, write a bit and join in the learning experience, please. We will all benefit.
 
I have very little intention of rewriting my poems. I'm more the type to just build brand new things from scratch than trying to improve an undesirable framework. Anyways I have a new poem today.

Why is light happy? And darkness so sad?
Is warmth that much better? Is cold so bad?
Why do we fear things that go bump in the night?
When evils of man are hidden in daylight.
So quick are our minds to judge and place,
Without darkness we can't see stars in space,
Cold creates joy upon the falling white snow.
Warmth does the same with steaming hot cocoa.
Silver moonlight brings new beauty to our eyes,
Reveals new things, hidden in day's disguise.
Cold is not evil. Light does not mean good.
Everything is balanced, Just as it should.
 
While any feedback is appreciated I would like criticism to be constructive.
I have very little intention of rewriting my poems. I'm more the type to just build brand new things from scratch than trying to improve an undesirable framework.
If you have "little intention of rewriting [your] poems" why should anyone bother with feedback other than a simple "I liked/did not like it" comment? And if someone who does not like a poem says so, is that automatically "not constructive?"

Honest feedback/critique is, at least in my opinion, one of the most important aids you can receive in learning to write. Your opinion may differ, of course, or you may not be interested in learning to write (or learning to write better).

Are you serious about writing poetry or just looking for people to tell you they like your poems?
 
If you have "little intention of rewriting [your] poems" why should anyone bother with feedback other than a simple "I liked/did not like it" comment? And if someone who does not like a poem says so, is that automatically "not constructive?"

Honest feedback/critique is, at least in my opinion, one of the most important aids you can receive in learning to write. Your opinion may differ, of course, or you may not be interested in learning to write (or learning to write better).

Are you serious about writing poetry or just looking for people to tell you they like your poems?

What I mean when I say I don't intend to rewrite my poems is that I'll use criticisms of past poems to help me construct better ones in the future. I look at my art as I look at my cooking. I can't change the recipe of the food one the plate, but I can change it for the next time I make it.

As for my seriousness it's a hobby and an outlet. I don't want it to become something I have too force mtself to do and I do want to get better and appeal to more people.
 
read and write a lot but don't edit too much

If you have "little intention of rewriting [your] poems" why should anyone bother with feedback other than a simple "I liked/did not like it" comment? And if someone who does not like a poem says so, is that automatically "not constructive?"
Old fashioned spanking would be more constructive than any feedback or criticism.

Honest feedback/critique is, at least in my opinion, one of the most important aids you can receive in learning to write. Your opinion may differ, of course, or you may not be interested in learning to write (or learning to write better).

Are you serious about writing poetry or just looking for people to tell you they like your poems?
F_S managed to accomplish something truly incredible, I'd never guess in my dreams that it was possible--s/he has posted a poem even worse than the previous two!!!

I'd like to clear a common misconception though. A beginner should not dwell on and edit his/her poems too much, just a little bit. Indeed, a beginner doesn't know much yet, doesn't have much to dwell about. And when s/he does know this or that it's not yet well assimilated and ingrained; when doing editing the odds are that s/he'll go wrong.

Thus it's good to read a lot, analyze a lot, to write their own poems a lot relatively quickly (but always artistically seriously, even when it's a light or occasional or humorous poem), get plenty of feedback (but not too much :). One gets more and better experience by writing the next and the next poem. As in the case of the three F_S poems, in most of the cases (not all) there is nothing worth to stop at and improve upon. Let such tries go to the trash can or stay in a drawer, so that after years one can smile at them.

Regards,
 
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What I mean when I say I don't intend to rewrite my poems is that I'll use criticisms of past poems to help me construct better ones in the future. I look at my art as I look at my cooking. I can't change the recipe of the food one the plate, but I can change it for the next time I make it.
Cooking is a good metaphor, I think, though I would interpret it a bit differently.

Think of your poem's subject or theme as a recipe. Just as you would not expect to be able to turn out a perfect soufflé on your first try, you would not expect (or should not expect) to turn out a perfected, or even good, expression of your chosen theme in a first draft. Now it may be that the theme is unworthy of rewriting, just as some recipes just aren't worth trying again, but most books on poetry writing and every course I've ever taken stresses rewriting as fundamental to making a poem better. In fact, every course I've looked at requires students to redraft poems multiple times and demonstrate that by keeping copies of the earlier drafts.

That doesn't apply to everything one would call a poem, though. I often write things that for one reason or another were fun to compose, or written for someone in particular as a joke or a flirt or just to make a transitory point. But anything I'm serious about I consider to be in almost permanent rewrite.

Doesn't mean you have to agree, but I would reiterate my earlier comment--why, if you aren't interested in rewriting your poem, should I want to devote any time to trying to comment in detail on it?
As for my seriousness it's a hobby and an outlet. I don't want it to become something I have too force mtself to do and I do want to get better and appeal to more people.
It's a hobby for me as well. To use another metaphor, I think of it as being like golf. It is difficult to do well, requires a lot of practice to get better at, and is a skill that I'll never really be good at, compared to a PGA professional (or a Pulitzer-winning poet).

Still, when I was playing golf, my focus was to always get better. That took practice and focus and work. Same with poetry. Unfortunately, I think I tend to get the same kind of results with poetry, where I am relegated to the high handicap zone of poesy.

This doesn't mean you need to feel the same way about poetry, but it helps me understand where you're coming from. The people I associate most with here have something of that commitment--they want to get better and are willing to work at it.

Sometimes we do and sometimes we don't (get better/work at it), but the intent is there.

No reason why you should share that (many posters here don't), but it tells me whether I should try and read your poems or not. My initial impression is that I shouldn't bother, because of some of your comments, but initial impressions are often wrong.
 
<snip>... Anyways I have a new poem today.

Why is light happy? And darkness so sad?
Is warmth that much better? Is cold so bad?
Why do we fear things that go bump in the night?
When evils of man are hidden in daylight.
So quick are our minds to judge and place,
Without darkness we can't see stars in space,
Cold creates joy upon the falling white snow.
Warmth does the same with steaming hot cocoa.
Silver moonlight brings new beauty to our eyes,
Reveals new things, hidden in day's disguise.
Cold is not evil. Light does not mean good.
Everything is balanced, Just as it should.

Thanks for sharing this poem. I like it as a little rhyme that I would read just because it's in front of me. There's no great resonant tolling of a bell to signal that my world has changed as a result of your words but I'd be a fool to expect that sort of thing.

I'm going to grab a couple of phrases from your poem as an illustration of what I mean when I tell you that you're being very trite when you write this way:

  • things that go bump in the night,
  • Without darkness we can't see stars in space
  • Silver moonlight
These are very worn and clichéd ideas and lines, you hear them everywhere and that's why this particular piece fails to be memorable. Use these phrases as a muse and try to discover a unique and original way to repeat their meaning.

Part of the artistry of poetry is to add your personal brush strokes to a beautiful word painting. Make us feel the wonder of what the night reveals and in that way, teach us that fear of the dark is as silly as fearing the day. Show us how a simple alteration in our perception will make the sun's absence just a different aspect of our existence.

Research the old god named Janus and you'll see that the fables of that particular cult and myth have been taught for a thousand years. Your poem is just another way of saying much of the same thing.

Anyway, good luck and happy reading. There's a pile of writing out there on the Janus theme and maybe you will be inspired to add a poem to it.
 
One gets more and better experience by writing the next and the next poem. As in the case of the three F_S poems, in most of the cases (not all) there is nothing worth to stop at and improve upon
This is a really good point. Or points.

When you are first trying to write poetry (and this more references me, FS, than you, as I still consider myself "first trying to write poetry"), you suck. Badly. Worse than badly. You're damn near unreadable.

But everyone starts that way. Yeats and Auden (or Li Po and Snorri Sturluson) all had to start somewhere, and they started, almost certainly, badly.

How do you get better? You write a lot. And think about what you've written. You read a lot of better poets (and I mean here not particularly Lit poets, though there are some good Lit poets, but poets like the aforementioned Yeats and Auden and Li Po and Snorri and etc.). You write a lot more. You get your colleagues' opinions about your writing (i.e. critical comments) and listen to them.

It's a lot of work, if you are serious about it. There's no reason you need to be serious about it. You can (to evoke the golf anaolgy) play your 18 holes, fudge your scorecard, and go home happy to have scored 95.

So, again, the question is--how serious are you?
 
With Champagne's comments about I feel like I may give that poem a rewrite. I'll practice and try to get better. I've been trying to learn to deviate from my normal forms but I don't like the current rhythms on them. I do intend to be serious and refine my game as it were. I'm never happy with "good enough" when I know I can do better. When I know I can make myself better.
 
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Men walking without direction
Driven by the crack of thunder
Lacking knowledge and purpose
With entusiasm we blunder.

Finding one's place is difficult
Filtering through conflicting voices
Weariness slowly sets in
Far too many choices

Time rolls on, little changes
So many have lost their way
working half heartedly for a living
Wearing down as souls decay

Working toward another's dream
Never at their full potential
Their spirits ache to be more
They've forgotten what's essential

So many lives grind away
No heroes, no glory, no satisfaction
On these weary souls castles are built
Because they didn't take proper action
 
Quick question... Do you like to rhyme or do you rhyme because you are under the impression that poetry must? Let me put a challenge out there for you. Try to write in rhythm and remain consistent throughout the entire piece without rhymes or ... learn about enjambment and write us a poem where the lines are NOT end-stopped rhymes.

This will promote an exploration of language through work that you've never done before. When we speak or write, our words flow naturally down a tried and true course, unless we purposefully dam up the channel and dredge out a new canal. The two exercises here are the dams and breakwaters that will cause you to challenge yourself to become a little uncomfortable in the process of charting a new route. It's hard work, but fun and absolutely rewarding.
 
Quick question... Do you like to rhyme or do you rhyme because you are under the impression that poetry must? Let me put a challenge out there for you. Try to write in rhythm and remain consistent throughout the entire piece without rhymes or ... learn about enjambment and write us a poem where the lines are NOT end-stopped rhymes.

This will promote an exploration of language through work that you've never done before. When we speak or write, our words flow naturally down a tried and true course, unless we purposefully dam up the channel and dredge out a new canal. The two exercises here are the dams and breakwaters that will cause you to challenge yourself to become a little uncomfortable in the process of charting a new route. It's hard work, but fun and absolutely rewarding.

I rhyme, because I like to. I've used up all they poems I've had floating around my head though. I'll take your advice and try something completely different on my next piece.
 
A valentine's poem with a new style:

"2/14"

The love
Stretching for leagues, north and south across, the longest border.

The pet
Pale pixie beauty, eager for Master's ev'ry order,

Master
Kind, gentle, rough and firm. Gentleman beast to keep her warm.

Future
Ways part as lives may. They shall remember love's passionate storm.

Present
The timely gift to cherish. Pray this moment not to finish.

True love
Unyielding force. Souls entwined. No barrier breaks their bind
 
What I mean when I say I don't intend to rewrite my poems is that I'll use criticisms of past poems to help me construct better ones in the future.

I think this is wise until you start making work that you know you want to polish. I see myself sometimes as turning out poem pots at a wheel and folding the clay in until I get one I know I want to fire in the kiln through careful editing and revision. A number of them just go back to the clay.
 
If you have "little intention of rewriting [your] poems" why should anyone bother with feedback other than a simple "I liked/did not like it" comment? And if someone who does not like a poem says so, is that automatically "not constructive?"

Honest feedback/critique is, at least in my opinion, one of the most important aids you can receive in learning to write. Your opinion may differ, of course, or you may not be interested in learning to write (or learning to write better).

Are you serious about writing poetry or just looking for people to tell you they like your poems?


A poem is written documentation of what you are feeling at any given moment. It is never wrong. You may like it, you may hate it, and a million feelings in between. You can't change or "correct" a poem. A poem shouldn't be written to please other people, or even to please yourself...it simply just is what it is. Those are the best, and never need to be changed or validated.
 
A poem is written documentation of what you are feeling at any given moment. It is never wrong. You may like it, you may hate it, and a million feelings in between. You can't change or "correct" a poem. A poem shouldn't be written to please other people, or even to please yourself...it simply just is what it is. Those are the best, and never need to be changed or validated.

I respect your viewpoint, Josi; however, I disagree. A poem may be written for many different purposes. Those poems that we write for the page as works of art should be created then honed. Elizabeth Bishop edited her famous Sestina 17 times and it shows! It's marvelous. It is perfectly itself due to her hard work and obvious talent.
 
I respect your viewpoint, Josi; however, I disagree. A poem may be written for many different purposes. Those poems that we write for the page as works of art should be created then honed. Elizabeth Bishop edited her famous Sestina 17 times and it shows! It's marvelous. It is perfectly itself due to her hard work and obvious talent.


I also respect your viewpoint, and ultimately, how the hell do I know if it was edited?
I would rather see a hot mess of someone's raw feelings because it's real and very powerful.
But, if someone edits 17 times before they let me read it, I still enjoy it just the same and I will believe that it was inspired and raw.
 
I also respect your viewpoint, and ultimately, how the hell do I know if it was edited?
I would rather see a hot mess of someone's raw feelings because it's real and very powerful.
But, if someone edits 17 times before they let me read it, I still enjoy it just the same and I will believe that it was inspired and raw.
You may say you believe that a poem is raw just because no one mentioned that it was edited, I suggest you go ahead and read some more poems. Seriously, do that. Have you read the poem, Sestina, yet? The seamless enjambment, the prosity and the quality of the image Ms Bishop paints in that poem are unquestionably marvellous and because of these factors I hold no illusions that it required editing, reediting and more editing to bring it to its present beauty. In fact, I have no doubt that the poet probably could find another reason to edit it again.
Even I, poor panty-drawer-poetry poet that I am, can appreciate the effort it takes to even accomplish one 4 line stanza of enjambment across lines. Sestina has been crafted from raw inspiration, definitely, and that investment is what elevates it above so many others that are obviously just tossed out there. So to answer your question about how you can know if a piece has been edited -- Pay attention to how well-crafted it is and then appreciate it as a "work" of art. Work implies effort and art is rarely achieved without it.
 
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You may say you believe that a poem is raw just because no one mentioned that it was edited, I suggest you go ahead and read some more poems. Seriously, do that. Have you read the poem, Sestina, yet? The seamless enjambment, the prosity and the quality of the image Ms Bishop paints in that poem are unquestionably marvellous and because of these factors I hold no illusions that it required editing, reediting and more editing to bring it to its present beauty. In fact, I have no doubt that the poet probably could find another reason to edit it again.
Even I, poor panty-drawer-poetry poet that I am, can appreciate the effort it takes to even accomplish one 4 line stanza of enjambment across lines. Sestina has been crafted from raw inspiration, definitely, and that investment is what elevates it above so many others that are obviously just tossed out there. So to answer your question about how you can know if a piece has been edited -- Pay attention to how well-crafted it is and then appreciate it as a "work" of art. Work implies effort and art is rarely achieved without it.

Interesting, I didn't actually ask a question, or expect a response.
 
sometimes a fabulous poem will simply 'arrive', often a very brief affair, and to edit it will lessen its power. having said that, it is a very rare event and those we read that seem perfect, powerful, immediate and moving will have been honed through numerous rewrites and edits. sometimes, a rewrite isn't worth the effort but we can learn from the responses to it and, in time, hindsight is a very candid teacher.

this forum is a workplace possibly more than a showcase, and much of the works are in-progress, though the editing may take years to complete. almost all poetry is bettered by the act of sympathetic editing, and a whole bunch of the worst poetry is just that 'hot mess' of raw ingredients that haven't yet been combined and then cooked and then presented to best suit their potential.
 
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