Seeking Feedback

[Innuendos]

Hey folks, I'm Innuendos.

While I'm not new to writing, I am new to LE and am in the process of writing my first story, a 12-chapter piece called 'Sweet Dreams Are Made of This'. The work spans a few categories, but primarily rests within romance, fantasy, polyamoury and first time. Below is a link to the first chapter:

http://www.literotica.com/s/sweet-dreams-are-made-of-this-ch-01

Writing erotica is a new experience, and one that is proving challenging in some respects. The tangibles - spelling, grammar, flow, aren't an issue for me, and after receiving some limited comments, I think I'm okay on those aspects.

What I'm looking for is feedback on the intangibles - particularly plausibility, the vanilla nature of my writing, and to a lesser extent - flow-. I'm trying to write the story as as realistically as possible in dealing with a sexual trope that while generally portrayed as unrealistic, exists in real life.

I think my work on the sexual aspects is improving (up to five chapters completed and submitted) now, but I don't know how well I've captured the erotic aspects.

Any thoughts and feedback to offer?

 

[inflagranteloti]

Hi there! You asked for feedback, and hopefully I can help you out.

I really enjoyed your writing. You have a great style and a knack for writing dialogue. There were wonderful descriptions sprinkled throughout that really brought the story to life.

I'm not going to focus on the particulars of any one story (I only read the first and skimmed the rest), though I do think that your style might be a bit too "literary" for Literotica. Posting on Literotica kind of forces us to get to the good stuff quicker and not mess around with too much background. I learned that the hard way!

Now, onto the sex. When you write a sex scene, try to focus less on the actions and more on the feelings inspired by the actions. You want to try and relate to the readers exactly how the characters feel -- how good they feel and how excited they are to be having sex. Vanilla sex is fine, but it should be detailed. Not detailed in a clinical sort of way, though.

I don't know -- I guess a good barometer is if you get turned on while writing your story. If you don't, then you probably need to go into more detail. Writing sex scenes can be difficult because they require us to be vulnerable, expressing ideas and thoughts that might reflect our own experiences. But I think those make the best sex scenes. Honestly, I thought a woman had written this story and maybe she was having a hard time imagining how a man would feel during sex, but I just checked your profile and you are indeed a man!

One thing you might try to do is create a lot of UST -- unresolved sexual tension -- though you don't want to leave your readers with UST alone (again, hard way). This means you're probably going to have to work more sexual elements into your stories, but if you're posting on Literotica, that's kind of expected. Set up obstacles that keep your characters from getting together, but describe in detail how much they want to get together. That tension will really draw your reader in and make it that much palpable and intense when the characters finally get it on.

Anyway, hope that helped!

 

[Innuendos]

I really enjoyed your writing. You have a great style and a knack for writing dialogue. There was wonderful descriptions sprinkled throughout that really brought the story to life.

First off, let me say thanks for the feedback as much as for the compliments. Validation and a sense of accomplishment is always a pleasure, but stuff like the insight you're offering here goes a much greater distance to helping me hone my writing.

I'm not going to focus on the particulars of any one story (I only read the first and skimmed the rest), though I do think that your style might be a bit too "literary" for Literotica. Posting on Literotica kind of forces us to get to the good stuff quicker and not mess around with too much background. I learned that the hard way!

Seeking clarification: By 'literary', are you referring to the quantity of story/plot against the quanity of erotic content? While I have skimped somewhat on the latter in one later chapter, my loose formula for content of each chapter has been an average of about 1 part erotic to 4 parts plot/story. Think I should weight the balance more heavily in favor of the erotic?

Now, onto the sex. When you write a sex scene, try to focus less on the actions and more on the feelings inspired by the actions. You want to try and relate to the readers exactly how the characters feel -- how good they feel and how excited they are to be having sex. Vanilla sex is fine, but it should be detailed. Not detailed in a clinical sort of way, though.

More clarification: You're referring to feelings in terms of the five senses, right? Not the emotional/spiritual?

I don't know -- I guess a good barometer is if you get turned on while writing your story. If you don't, then you probably need to go into more detail.

I tend to go into my mental zone when writing, so there's a level of physical detachment from the writing process. I'll have to be a little more self-reflective, I think, in order to see if that barometer works for me.

Writing sex scenes can be difficult because they require us to be vulnerable, expressing ideas and thoughts that might reflect our own experiences. But I think those make the best sex scenes. Honestly, I thought a woman had written this story and maybe she was having a hard time imagining how a man would feel during sex, but I just checked your profile and you are indeed a man!

No, I'm a definitely all man. *checks* Yup.

That's the erotic writing inexperience showing it self, I think, because after critically examining my sex sequences, I'm left with a strong impression of in my work of mostly foreplay, very little sexual interaction. Five senses exposition might shore it up?

One thing you might try to do is create a lot of UST -- unresolved sexual tension -- though you don't want to leave your readers with UST alone (again, hard way). This means you're probably going to have to work more sexual elements into your stories, but if you're posting on Literotica, that's kind of expected. Set up obstacles that keep your characters from getting together, but describe in detail how much they want to get together. That tension will really draw your reader in and make it that much palpable and intense when the characters finally get it on.

Oh, now this is some gold that I hadn't really considered. As I mentioned, SDAMT was written with the polyamory/sisters dynamic in mind, with a focus on portraying the relationship in a way that made sense. Starting the story off with a pair of attractive, single, and virginal adult women practically throwing themselves at the protagonist requires explaining to keep plausibility intact, but I think... that there is definitely some room for a heavy dose of UST in the remaining chapters.

I'll mull it over, thanks.

Anyway, hope that helped!

A great deal, in fact, thanks!

 

[inflagranteloti]

I'm glad that you found my feedback useful. While I've only posted a couple of chapters of a story here, I've been writing erotica for a few years--aka, fanfiction--so I do have a bit of experience. I've probably written about 300K words of erotica so far, actually.

Yeah, when I said literary, I meant that you're writing a fully fleshed out story that would be great at an o-fic archive, but I think the majority of readers at literotica want a little more bang for the buck. /bad pun

Like I said, I figured this out the hard way because the first chapter of my story didn't have any sex, and it got pretty low ratings. Now, I've got a chapter in the queue that is about 6000 of almost entirely sex, so hopefully that will make up for it!

And I was talking about feelings in terms of sensations. You want the reader to be able to experience what your characters are experiencing. I almost left a note in my original message saying that I thought Jahn was too much inside his own head during the sex scenes. I don't know -- I don't think you need to be too analytical about what's happening in the moment. I think sex scenes are best when there's a sense of urgency to them--either emotionally or because of something else going on in the scene.

Nice chatting with you!

 

[Innuendos]

Yeah, when I said literary, I meant that you're writing a fully fleshed out story that would be great at an o-fic archive, but I think the majority of readers at literotica want a little more bang for the buck. /bad pun

O-fic? Unfamiliar with the term...

And I was talking about feelings in terms of sensations. You want the reader to be able to experience what your characters are experiencing. I almost left a note in my original message saying that I thought Jahn was too much inside his own head during the sex scenes. I don't know -- I don't think you need to be too analytical about what's happening in the moment. I think sex scenes are best when there's a sense of urgency to them--either emotionally or because of something else going on in the scene.

The point about Jahn being "too much in his own head" is actually a fair point, and an intentional personality trait. I haven't really capitalized on it much in the course of the story, and I'm thinking there might be more I can do with it, but that's where the fantasy/dream sequences stem from... stray thoughts, sometimes sexy, sometimes not. His girlfriends pick up on that eventually, and have some fun with it, but I think it might help to have him drawn out of that a little more for the sake of improving the actual sex scenes.

 

[inflagranteloti]

O-fic is just original fiction. Man, that might be fanfiction speak!

I guess when writing sex scenes you could use the same advice that's given to any writer who wants to improve -- read a lot of sex scenes, figure out what you like and don't like, and then incorporate those elements that you do like into your own writing.

At the end of the day, you're writing for you. So don't compromise if you're writing your story the way you want to write it.

 

[Innuendos]

O-fic is just original fiction. Man, that might be fanfiction speak!

I guess when writing sex scenes you could use the same advice that's given to any writer who wants to improve -- read a lot of sex scenes, figure out what you like and don't like, and then incorporate those elements that you do like into your own writing.

At the end of the day, you're writing for you. So don't compromise if you're writing your story the way you want to write it.

Far as the story goes, I'm inclined to keep the literary... the o-fic element intact, because I have a thing for writing. The erotic element is obviously important here as well, but I think I'll work towards a balance between the two rather than sacrificing one or the other. Some of the sexiest writing, IMO, isn't just about the sex act itself, but the lead-in, the foreplay, if you will. Might be that I'm too much in my own head as well, but the journey is at least half the fun.

All in all, a lot of excellent insight to incorporate into my writing; thanks for your input!

 

[Banleno007]

I really enjoyed your writing. You have a great style and a knack for writing dialogue. There was wonderful descriptions sprinkled throughout that really brought the story to life.

 

[Innuendos]

I really enjoyed your writing. You have a great style and a knack for writing dialogue. There was wonderful descriptions sprinkled throughout that really brought the story to life.

Thanks for the compliments, always appreciated. Going into this story, I'd thought the dialogue might be one of the more difficult parts, because it's really -easy- to descend into cheesy, stilted, or otherwise embarrassingly bad chatter. Read-back and limiting the dialogue seems to work as a strategy, though, and has made it easier than expected.

 

[Innuendos]

Another question for those more experienced with submitting material to LE.

I've seen a comment here or there about timeliness in submitting 'chapter' based works here, and keeping the interest of readers. I'm working as I go, with my outline, plot and general ideas already worked up, but it's very much a work in progress, generally with a new chapter every three days or so.

Should I be working faster? Can I get away with slower? What's the rule of thumb for you all?

 

[inflagranteloti]

I'm not sure how big a deal WIPs (work in progress) are here, but on other archives where I post, a lot of readers won't touch a WIP because authors often abandon them. So authors are encouraged to completely finish a work before they even begin posting. I don't think that's as big a deal here since a prolonged plot isn't necessarily what people are interested in! But I've found that if people like your work, then they want you to submit on a regular basis, as quickly as possible!

 

[sr71plt]

I'm not sure how big a deal WIPs (work in progress) are here, but on other archives where I post, a lot of readers won't touch a WIP because authors often abandon them. So authors are encouraged to completely finish a work before they even begin posting. I don't think that's as big a deal here since a prolonged plot isn't necessarily what people are interested in! But I've found that if people like your work, then they want you to submit on a regular basis, as quickly as possible!

I think some segment of the readers here won't read it until it's finished--for various reasons: it's hard to deliver a good work that's published as it goes because those generally just meander around and because it's frustrating to start reading a story that never finishes.

 

[lovecraft68]

I'm not sure how big a deal WIPs (work in progress) are here, but on other archives where I post, a lot of readers won't touch a WIP because authors often abandon them. So authors are encouraged to completely finish a work before they even begin posting. I don't think that's as big a deal here since a prolonged plot isn't necessarily what people are interested in! But I've found that if people like your work, then they want you to submit on a regular basis, as quickly as possible!

I noticed that when I finished my series a few months ago, I started getting put on quite a few favs pages and was getting a lot of comments, more it seemed then when it was ongoing, so I guess a lot of people do wait.

 

[PennLady]

Another question for those more experienced with submitting material to LE.

I've seen a comment here or there about timeliness in submitting 'chapter' based works here, and keeping the interest of readers. I'm working as I go, with my outline, plot and general ideas already worked up, but it's very much a work in progress, generally with a new chapter every three days or so.

Should I be working faster? Can I get away with slower? What's the rule of thumb for you all?

I doubt there's any real rule of thumb. I started a story that's going up in chapters. I wrote a fair bit of it before I started posting, figuring I'd finish as I went along. However, I had to seriously rework a couple of chapters, and then the holidays hit, so now there will be a big lag before the end.

If you don't care about such things, then it doesn't matter. I do care and wish I'd been able to finish sooner, or had waited to start posting. It's frustrating, especially b/c right now I'm at a standstill on the story and writing time is so hard to come by.

I was posting about once a week. Readers seemed fine with that, although some said they hoped for faster. I think every three days a great pace if you can keep it up (haha). As for keeping the interest of the reader, that depends on so many variables, not least of which is the reader themselves, that you can't really say.

 

[Innuendos]

I doubt there's any real rule of thumb. I started a story that's going up in chapters. I wrote a fair bit of it before I started posting, figuring I'd finish as I went along. However, I had to seriously rework a couple of chapters, and then the holidays hit, so now there will be a big lag before the end.

As far as my ability to complete the work goes, I'm not terribly concerned. While I'm treating it as a work in progress, with alterations as I go, the story was plotted out beforehand with a beginning, middle, and end. Some things may change in the telling, but that's all on me, and I know that as a writer behind an anonymous account on an internet forum, people aren't privy to what I'm up to.

If you don't care about such things, then it doesn't matter. I do care and wish I'd been able to finish sooner, or had waited to start posting. It's frustrating, especially b/c right now I'm at a standstill on the story and writing time is so hard to come by.

Same here. I've come across a number of great, yet incomplete stories, and don't want to be one of the authors that does that. I can see where a diminished chapter-posting rate might turn readers off to the work, and that's why I figured I should ask.

I was posting about once a week. Readers seemed fine with that, although some said they hoped for faster. I think every three days a great pace if you can keep it up (haha). As for keeping the interest of the reader, that depends on so many variables, not least of which is the reader themselves, that you can't really say.

The three-day frame is my standard rate when uninterrupted by real life factors. That's always subject to change, of course and I'd prefer to take it slower when quality storytelling dictates a closer examination of what I'm doing.

You say there's enough variables that it shouldn't be a problem, so I think I'll take that and run with it, rather than stressing on my self-imposed 3-day rate too much.

Thanks for the insight!

 

[Innuendos]

I'm not sure how big a deal WIPs (work in progress) are here, but on other archives where I post, a lot of readers won't touch a WIP because authors often abandon them. So authors are encouraged to completely finish a work before they even begin posting. I don't think that's as big a deal here since a prolonged plot isn't necessarily what people are interested in! But I've found that if people like your work, then they want you to submit on a regular basis, as quickly as possible!

Personally, I kinda like the posted chapters style, because it renders the story in smaller, more easily digestible chunks of my personal time. However, I can see where the concern from that stems from; there are few things as disappointing as coming across a great story, and having it peter off into nowhere, or being left to wonder if the author has abandoned it, run out of inspiration, or simply run into some real life difficulty that prevents them from coming back to finish it.

I probably need to investigate the features of my LE account further, and see if there's anything blog-like in my profile. Still n00bing it on that front.

 

[inflagranteloti]

Personally, I kinda like the posted chapters style, because it renders the story in smaller, more easily digestible chunks of my personal time.

Just to be clear, I meant that some authors who write multi-chaptered stories complete their entire story before ever posting the first chapter. Then in an author's note on the first chapter they explain that the story is finished and will be posted on x schedule.

Honestly, I wish I could do that because it allows for so much more editing. As it is, I usually rush my first draft out the door only to come back to it a week later and cringe!

 

[sr71plt]

Just to be clear, I meant that some authors who write multi-chaptered stories complete their entire story before ever posting the first chapter. Then in an author's note on the first chapter they explain that the story is finished and will be posted on x schedule.

Honestly, I wish I could do that because it allows for so much more editing. As it is, I usually rush my first draft out the door only to come back to it a week later and cringe!

I did that in my last couple of chaptered works, having picked the idea up from here. I think it worked well. I still got e-mails on the early chapters telling me what the reader wanted to happen in later chapters, though.

 

[Innuendos]

Just to be clear, I meant that some authors who write multi-chaptered stories complete their entire story before ever posting the first chapter. Then in an author's note on the first chapter they explain that the story is finished and will be posted on x schedule.

Honestly, I wish I could do that because it allows for so much more editing. As it is, I usually rush my first draft out the door only to come back to it a week later and cringe!

Ah, I see what you mean. I'm not sure I have the discipline to do that either. Like you when I'm done, I want to be _done_ and not deal with it again, particularly since I've already reviewed the copy a half dozen times and still seem to catch trivial mistakes that bring out the inner OCD-freak.

 

[sr71plt]

Ah, I see what you mean. I'm not sure I have the discipline to do that either. Like you when I'm done, I want to be _done_ and not deal with it again, particularly since I've already reviewed the copy a half dozen times and still seem to catch trivial mistakes that bring out the inner OCD-freak.

I'm confused by what seems a contradiction in your sentence two and three. If you finish it before you start posting, then you are done with it.

 

[Innuendos]

'lo again, folks.

As of chapter 12's release today, my story is now a completed work. While I'm able to determine a few things from the various levels of ratings each chapter has received, such as a negative reaction to a harsh and possibly unexpected development in the 11th chapter, the story as a whole has gone without a lot of feedback.

I'm interested in following up the story with another, a sort of sequel that occurs some time later in the lives of the same characters, but would prefer to get some input on SDAMT before doing so, if anyone would be willing to look it over tell me what they think of the story as a completed work: quality of writing, quality of storytelling, story flow, the later chapter developments and how they fit in with the rest of the story, and any other insights that can be offered. I've identified some minor punctuation and grammar glitches in need of correction, but it's the bigger issues that I'm most interested in.

Chapter 1 link is in the first post of this thread. Thoughts?