Write it in English

[Senna Jawa]

I hope that someone has fun because the time's flying, it's been 13 years since I've written a poem, in Polish, which now I'd like to have in English. Here is my first try. (I am worried about the 3rd line, can I really say simply "stretches"?--I am afraid not; and the ending must be hard to grasp too). Can you write it better? Go for it. Don't worry about the original, just get as good poem out of it as possible. I like this poem, thus the chance that I will approve of your effort is slim, but then who cares?! Just do it, I'll be grateful to you.

***********************

in fog

a dream-cloud in front of me
when i softly blow
stretches in a smile
about to scatter
be i whisper

a dream cuddly mutual
in a caress fog
out the window
straight homes edges
sharp
under the palm gracefully
a line disappears
in a caress fog

through a glass door
from the floor the mountains
in fog--don't disappear
a river of pain flows
​

wh,
1998-11-10

 

[Angeline]

I have no problem with "stretches" though I'm not sure you need "in." The "in" might be superfluous. Otherwise, congratulations on writing the poem. Now write another. Jazz is always a good subject.

 

[Senna Jawa]

I have no problem with "stretches" though I'm not sure you need "in." The "in" might be superfluous.

I meant that the dream-cloud stretches (itself), like after one wakes up, and that it--this dream-cloud--smiles. Perhaps I should write "stretches and smiles". It's a very light smile, like when someone is asleep.

Otherwise, congratulations on writing the poem. Now write another. Jazz is always a good subject.

My regular writing days are over. It's your turn, guys

Thank you, Angeline, for your comment and prompt,

 

[BooMerengue]

How do I dare I do this... Senna, I have such respect for your poetry (N0- I'm not sucking up- not my way) that I'm almost scared to do this but taking a deep breath... here goes.

a wispy cloud in front of me
as i softly blow
stretching in a dreamy smile
about to scatter
if i whisper

a dream cuddle mutual
in a caressing fog
while out the window
straight homes edge
sharply
under the palm
gracefully a line disappears
in the caressing fog

through a glass door
from the floor
the mountains stretched
in fog--don't disappear
as the river of pain flows

I would have used punctuation, but thats my thing. Don't know if it's yours. I don't know if I did good, but I think it's a bit easier to read. Fire away, Buddy. I can take it!

 

[GuiltyPleasure]

With the same trepidation as Boo I humbly offer.....

in fog

in front

a dream cloud
blow softly and
it .........stretches
to a smile

scatters as
i whisper
a dream cuddle

soft caress of
fog outside

harsh lines
under graceful palms
softened in a
caress of fog

through the door
from the ground
the mountains
stretch in fog
yet the river
of pain flows on

 

[BooMerengue]

Tris! Think we pissed him off? I sure hope not...

 

[Senna Jawa]

Grateful

Tris! Think we pissed him off? I sure hope not...

Oh, no! I am grateful to both of you. I am not in any hurry to respond, I don't want to stifle other tries, even your own eventual new variations.

The goal here is not to render the original in English but to use it as a pretext to new poems only related to mine.

I'd like to write about my Polish original later--I was not able to give it justice. Even in the past I would translate my own poem only if it came to me easy. This above is one of a few exceptions. And the result is not satisfactory. Possibly some poems are not to be translated. But then you never know. My own daughter G. has an unbelievable ability to translate Polish rhymed and metered poems and songs into English, preserving everything! (melody, meaning, mood, ...). Thus I should not rush with an opinion about anything being impossible to translate. It may take a proper translator, one in a zillion.

 

[BooMerengue]

I'm confused. But we all know I'm ditzy anyway.

You want us to use your poem as a sort of seed to write our own? But what we write has to relate to your words? If that is what you're wanting it could be a WOW as a challenge! I had a wee bit of trouble discerning your meaning, but I can study it some more. Talk to me...

 

[Senna Jawa]

Feel free, go for it, enjoy yourself!

I'm confused. But we all know I'm ditzy anyway.

You want us to use your poem as a sort of seed to write our own? But what we write has to relate to your words? If that is what you're wanting it could be a WOW as a challenge! I had a wee bit of trouble discerning your meaning, but I can study it some more. Talk to me...

Yes, that's my proposition. Let my text stimulate your own poems. You may try to catch some elements of the scene or of the mood, the way you perceive it, but make your own (perhaps coherent) poem. You may try to stay close or go away as far as you want from my words.

At this moment you don't have a fair chance to recover in English my original poem because I didn't quite explain what exactly was in the Polish version (certain things are either missing or misrepresented--nothing big but poetry is also about the small details). I am hesitant to do explain explicitely everything in prose too early because then everything would be said (I'd maim my poor thingie and the mood would be gone. Thus even if I did manage to explain everything it'd be perhaps hard to write anything in cold blood. You'll have more fun and most likely easier time following your own details and mood and everything you want.

 

[Remec]

in fog (my view)

It floats
before me,
dream-cloud,
expanding with my breath
to the point of
dispersal.

"Be"

We share it,
cuddly dream,
while outside it grows
along the houses,
outling each one
sharply
but dissolving easily
beneath a palm's
simple caress

at the door,
it covers the entire
view--
bottom to top--
all obscured in fog

"Don't go"

beads become rivulets
flowing
painfully

 

[BooMerengue]

It floats
before me,
dream-cloud,
expanding with my breath
to the point of
dispersal.

"Be"

We share it,
cuddly dream,
while outside it grows
along the houses,
outling each one
sharply
but dissolving easily
beneath a palm's
simple caress

at the door,
it covers the entire
view--
bottom to top--
all obscured in fog

"Don't go"

beads become rivulets
flowing
painfully

very nice Remmie.

 

[BooMerengue]

in fog

a dream-cloud in front of me
when i softly blow
stretches in a smile
about to scatter
be i whisper

a dream cuddly mutual
in a caress fog
out the window
straight homes edges
sharp
under the palm gracefully
a line disappears
in a caress fog

through a glass door
from the floor the mountains
in fog--don't disappear
a river of pain flows

Standing in the door watching
the fog slowly rising
covering all except the mountain tips
I feel the memory of you and your smile
and snuggling into each other
as if we were clouds passing through each other
becoming something else.

vaguely, below me I see the lines of the village
buried by this all caressing fog and I sink to my knees
braced by the doorframe as the pain
of your absence crashes thru me like a wild mountain stream.

This is VERY off the cuff, but it's what I see in Senna's words. I've promised my self tomorrow I will return and polish this some. Any and all suggestions are welcome, especially from you, Senna, because these are still your words. Not mine yet...

 

[Senna Jawa]

in fog

Standing in the door watching
the fog slowly rising
covering all except the mountain tips
I feel the memory of you and your smile
and snuggling into each other
as if we were clouds passing through each other
becoming something else.

vaguely, below me I see the lines of the village
buried by this all caressing fog and I sink to my knees
braced by the doorframe as the pain
of your absence crashes thru me like a wild mountain stream.​

The earlier three contributions by three different participants (including you) were variations. This one is a continuation, like Part II. Very nice!

I think it will be ok now to present some details of the original in the next post.

Thank you BooM and all participants of this thread for looking at my stuff.

Best regards,

 

[Senna Jawa]

we mgle--wlod, 1998-11-10 (Polish original)

-

we mgle

przede mną sen chmurka
gdy z lekka dmucham
przeciąga się w uśmiechu
za chwilę się rozwieje
szepczę trwaj

śnie przytulny obopólny
w pieszczoty mgle
za oknem
domów krawędzie proste
ostre
pod dłonią zwinnie
linia ginie
stopiona
w pieszczoty mgle

przez szklane drzwi
z podłogi góry
we mgle - nie rozwiewaj się -
w niej rzeka bólu płynie


​

wh,
1998-11-10

 

[Senna Jawa]

notes

L4: za chwilę się rozwieje -- in a moment it will dispers itself ("się"=itself in the given context).

Word rozwieje belongs to the core of Polish, it's sensual. English "dispers" doesn't have the same quality, it feels to me more abstract, scientific, while "wieje" is based deep in Nature. We say "wiatr wieje" = "wind blows" (rozwieje is a derivative of wieje. When there is draft (air current--perhaps the window is not tight, so that perhaps you feel a bit cold) then you may say "wieje". We also say "zawieja", meaning a strong and prolonged wind. There can be "zawieja śnieżna" meaning that a lot of snow is falling and there is some wind at the same time. "Rozwieje" sounds extra delicate, especially in the context of clouds or dreams. When your wishes-dreams are disappering you may say that they "rozwiewają się". And fog "rozwiewa się" too, when there is wind, or wind "rozwiewa" (is dispersing) fog--no "się" this time.

The last word of first stanza (L5) is Polish verb: trwaj. In English youd say "let it last", however here the lirical subject is addressing dream or fog (or smile). Can you do it in English? You can't demand "dream - last!", meaning "dream--keep existing!" ("don't cease"). Word "trwaj" has many related meanings and moods which are influenced by the context.

That last word "trwaj" serves as a bridge or enjambment. It applies also to the second stanza. You get a meaning like: mutual cuddly sleep/dream keep existing". In Polish "sleep" and "dream" is the same noun "sen".

Now poem moves from the soft scene inside to a sharp view outside the window. It says that outside the window (which implies that the narrator or rather the lirical subject is inside) the edges of the buildings are straight and sharp. After this detour the poem focuses back on the scene inside.

"zwinnie" is an adverb. The respective adjective is "zwinny" = agile. it combines such dancing-gimnastic virtues of a move like smoothness, lightness, quickness... Cats are agile, and lizards, ... It associates with a move of liquid or water, with flow. In Polish "zwinnie" rhymes with "płynnie"= flowly or fluent ("płyn" = liquid). Thus even if my poem does not have word "płynnie", some people had a strong impression that it was there (something I wanted people to feel, something that I predicted at the time of writing my poem).

The last stanza (in Polish) is difficult, people were not able to understand it (my fault). The wording is terse in that the initial phrase is without a verb:

przez szklane drzwi
z podłogi góry
we mgle​

I avoided adding word "widać" (are seen), with which you'd clearly have:

from the floor
through the glass door
mountains are seen
in fog​

Then the request or wish "nie rozwiewaj się" ("się" means "self", as in "inself", "by itself", "by yourself, "in myself" ...) appears again. So it is:

from the floor
through the glass door
mountains are seen
in fog--don't dispers itself--
a river of pain flows in it/her
​

"Fog" in Polish is "her"--feminine. At the end a direct interpretation is that the river flows in the fog, in mountains. But one may feel at the same time that it flows in the woman. Fog is uniting everything. Poetically it's important that the image which includes the mountains, a river in mountains, and the fog, is organic (a metaphor is welcome but is optional; it may be even the lirical subject's pain too).

Silly me, sorry for all this

 

[Iamthecandygirl]

-------

 

[Senna Jawa]

How about blushes or blooms?? Just a thought!

Perhaps, but what do you mean? (I have no clue).

Regards,

 

[BooMerengue]

I cut n pasted your words and went to iGoogle's translator. Folks I have used it to talk to say it's not so perfect, but close. Here's the direct translation I got from it...



before me, a dream cloud
when a little blowin
stalled in a smile
is about to dissipate
whisper-going

cozy dream mutual
in the mist caresses
the window
home straight edges
sharp
under his hand deftly
line dies
molten
in the mist caresses

through a glass door
from the floor up
in the fog - does not dispel the -
It flows a river of pain


Yeah, it's awkward and choppy, but I see spots where it says what you say. But now to make it flow as you'd like. Give me a bit of time and I'll try it again.

And don't say you're sorry. This is the biggest conversation I've ever had with you and I'm enjoying it. Really! laughing...

 

[Senna Jawa]

I cut n pasted your words

You're incredible. Does your cut'n'paste operation preserve Polish diacritics:

Ą Ć Ę Ł Ń Ó Ś Ź Ż

ą ć ę ł ń ó ś ź ż​

???

For instance szepcze means it/she/he wispers. But szepczę stands for I wisper.

and went to iGoogle's translator. Folks I have used it to talk to say it's not so perfect, but close.

It's certainly not perfect. But even years ago it was helpful. The one time that my name showed up in public (marginally, of course) was due to a technology/business controversy. A company was using my name at one time (they stopped doing it once I made a strongly worded request). However the folks on a Anglosaxon discussion group managed to find my statement on a Polish discussion group (in Polish). That was already an achievement since my name was misspelled by the said company (but of course). And on that Anglosaxon group they understood that I was not supporting the technological claim by that company, and that I didn't care to be advertised by them. When I read all that (I was not a participant of that Anglosaxon group) I just smiled.

Here's the direct translation I got from it...

before me, a dream cloud
when a little blowin
stalled in a smile
is about to dissipate
whisper-going​

Who's a little blowin? This translation does not reflect the grammar, that it is the lirical subject (the narrator) who is doing the blowing ("I am blowing). The same for wisper-going. It is "I" who wispers. The latter case possibly is explained by substituting "e" for "ę" in szepczę.

cozy dream mutual
in the mist caresses
the window
home straight edges
sharp
under his hand deftly
line dies
molten
in the mist caresses

Indeed, the main form of verb "ginie" is "ginąć". One of the meaning of "ginąć" is related to dying. But only in some special contexts. Thus soldiers "giną" in wars. And people "giną" in car accidents. Otherwise people "umierają" (die)--sometimes, but still in a war; in general people don't "giną".

The main meaning of "ginie" is that it's lost in the sense that you cannot find it anymore or cannot see it anymore. One can also "zginąć" (vanish) in the crowd. You may also miss things or paper or coin money (when you left them somewhere, and you don't know where, or they got stollen but you don't know it yet)--then you might say "zginęła mi książka" (I lost my book) or "zginęło mu $100" (he lost a $100 somewhere). In my poem it's this main meaning which applies. A line went somewhere away, you cannot see it anymore, you don't know where it is anymore.

BTW the 2nd stanza has some irregular rhymes.

through a glass door
from the floor up
in the fog - does not dispel the -
It flows a river of pain


Yeah, it's awkward and choppy, but I see spots where it says what you say. But now to make it flow as you'd like. Give me a bit of time and I'll try it again.

This translation is fun! Indeed, not too bad. We had "zwinnie" (agilly? agilely? agilitly?) in the middle stanza. It rhymes with "płynnie" (fluidly, fluently, flowly, flowishly). At the end you see "river of pain is flowing", which gives that extra illusion of "płynnie" being somewhere, especially in the middle stanza, while it iss... nowhere.

And don't say you're sorry. This is the biggest conversation I've ever had with you and I'm enjoying it. Really! laughing...

Oh, no!

Thank you BooM, best regards,

 

[BooMerengue]

You're incredible. Does your cut'n'paste operation preserve Polish diacritics:

Ą Ć Ę Ł Ń Ó Ś Ź Ż

ą ć ę ł ń ó ś ź ż​

???

For instance szepcze means it/she/he wispers. But szepczę stands for I wisper.



It's certainly not perfect. But even years ago it was helpful. The one time that my name showed up in public (marginally, of course) was due to a technology/business controversy. A company was using my name at one time (they stopped doing it once I made a strongly worded request). However the folks on a Anglosaxon discussion group managed to find my statement on a Polish discussion group (in Polish). That was already an achievement since my name was misspelled by the said company (but of course). And on that Anglosaxon group they understood that I was not supporting the technological claim by that company, and that I didn't care to be advertised by them. When I read all that (I was not a participant of that Anglosaxon group) I just smiled.



Who's a little blowin? This translation does not reflect the grammar, that it is the lirical subject (the narrator) who is doing the blowing ("I am blowing). The same for wisper-going. It is "I" who wispers. The latter case possibly is explained by substituting "e" for "ę" in szepczę.

Indeed, the main form of verb "ginie" is "ginąć". One of the meaning of "ginąć" is related to dying. But only in some special contexts. Thus soldiers "giną" in wars. And people "giną" in car accidents. Otherwise people "umierają" (die)--sometimes, but still in a war; in general people don't "giną".

The main meaning of "ginie" is that it's lost in the sense that you cannot find it anymore or cannot see it anymore. One can also "zginąć" (vanish) in the crowd. You may also miss things or paper or coin money (when you left them somewhere, and you don't know where, or they got stollen but you don't know it yet)--then you might say "zginęła mi książka" (I lost my book) or "zginęło mu $100" (he lost a $100 somewhere). In my poem it's this main meaning which applies. A line went somewhere away, you cannot see it anymore, you don't know where it is anymore.

BTW the 2nd stanza has some irregular rhymes.


This translation is fun! Indeed, not too bad. We had "zwinnie" (agilly? agilely? agilitly?) in the middle stanza. It rhymes with "płynnie" (fluidly, fluently, flowly, flowishly). At the end you see "river of pain is flowing", which gives that extra illusion of "płynnie" being somewhere, especially in the middle stanza, while it iss... nowhere.

Oh, no!

Thank you BooM, best regards,

Sorry I've been away. My computer is making me crazy doing it's own thing! But I'm here.

I'm incredible?? Wow! You made my day! You get my best reward for that...

You're pretty cool yourself! How come I never knew that?

 

[BooMerengue]

I went to Google. This "Ą Ć Ę Ł Ń Ó Ś Ź are ć ę ł ń ó ś ź ż " is what I get from this...

"Ą Ć Ę Ł Ń Ó Ś Ź Ż

ą ć ę ł ń ó ś ź ż"

It sounds like French to me. Or Chinese. lol!

I can't even explain English grammar. I just seem to know it. Same as writing a poem. I just say what I spew. Never had a lesson except for what I get here. But I have a brand new respect for the folks who translate any literature from one language to another! Whew!!