BDSM as a form of self harm?

[confusedtears]

I would be really interested in your opinions on this.

I'm currently in a fwb sort of relationship with a guy who is very dominant, and we're definitely exploring my submissive side. I've mentioned on here before that I was raped, and this exploring is being done sensitively, with care and lots of talking. All in all, I'm happy with the relationship-he has proved that I can trust him as I flashbacked in the middle of our last session and he immediately stopped and held me as I cried-restarting when I was grounded again. So yes, what I'm saying is that it is good and I feel that, although perhaps not healthy as so much of it relates to the abuse, it's certainly 'OK'.

Now I was talking to my counsellor about this-and she told me she believes it's a form of self harm for me. I have previously cut, but as I am now working I have stopped-she believes it's a form of harming myself-how much can I take, make it hurt, use me etc. although she wouldn't tell me for definite she felt it was harmful, she was worried about my need to be 'raped' and thrown around and beaten. Along the lines of-if its a genuine fetish/desire, that's fine, but she feels it's self harming at this point in my recovery/healing process.

So, opinions? Experiences? X

 

[BiBunny]

Can it be used as a form of self-harm? Yes. Is that something happens often? Probably not.

The thing is, counselors, just like everybody else in the world, can't be 100% objective. We all view things through filters of our own personal belief systems. What you're doing is certainly not normal, insofar as it's not something most people would do. But none of us here are normal in that sense, or we wouldn't be here. *Shrug*

I guess the question is, do YOU feel it's self-harm? I think that's more important than what a counselor thinks. If you feel that you can be totally honest with yourself and make that decision when you're not in the heat of the moment, then I don't think it's necessarily hindering your progress as far as recovery goes.

 

[confusedtears]

I don't know if I feel it's harming or not. I mean, in the sense that he spanks my butt and it leaves marks, then surely yes that is harm?!? But if I've asked him too?! Then is it not?!

I don't know the answer. Im enjoying it, I invite him in to my house, so therefore I enjoy it and want it-but then he's also 'forcing' me through things-like sitting on his face (69), being on top etc.. Which make me feel vulnerable and scared but afterwards I'm pleased I have?

I am so confused.

 

[abella117]

Rape isnt consensual, and Im sorry that is was an ordeal you had to endure. A rape victim feels shame by the experience.

Now your in a relationship with a dom, and even though your feel enjoyment, the counselor is making you feel shame by the experience you feel. (I am not trying to be insensitive)

Not all counselors are counselors worthy of their position.

Only you can truly decide if this is what you want or don't.

And remember this, unlike your attacker, a Dom is only as powerful as his sub allows him to be, and if he is a good dom, he knows and understands this. I think the hardest part for u is in the discovering stage, your discovering this lifestyle, you and your dom are discovering each other, and finding out the boundaries are.

 

[confusedtears]

I totally trust my counsellor and don't feel she'd try and sway me against something because of her views-perhaps im immature but I feel like she would do what's best for me regardless of her own beliefs.

My worry I guess is the long term 'harm'. I was raped when I was 12, and a virgin, and so every sexual experience has been tainted by the memories (and many physical internal scars). I have let myself for so many years be abused by men-perhaps not intentionally, but because I felt like I'm just flesh, just a whore to be used. I felt like I should shut up and take it, because that's what I deserved. Now I've worked through a lot f those emotions, and I know that I deserve more, somehow I've ended up WANTING to be used by someone. I guess I've handed over the control of my pleasure to him as well-previously my orgasm was less than irrelevant, unimportant and undeserved. I struggle with letting him willingly pleasure me-to lie back and let him give me oral is totally alien (and that's why I flashbacked-I heard myself be told not to enjoy) but the element of 'you will do what I say' has started to help me firstly learn about my own body (I didn't realise until last week that girls had a gspot....) but also to accept my body, allow it it's orgasms and hopefully begin to understand that I do deserve to be pleasured.

Perhaps that's very crude, overly simple: if I do a good job of oral then I get to orgasm in return-but maybe thst'll change to a more comprehensive view of 'I AM worthy in my whole life'.

Maybe...? Does that make sense to anyone else? :S

 

[blackfire87]

I can understand where you're coming from because I've been asked about this myself. I was molested as a child and raped as a teen, and have dealt with a cutting addiction for many years, it's still something I fight today. It can be used as a form of self harm, but if your partner is someone you trust I see it as a healthier release than the alternative. I've become so depressed before that I've considered picking up that knife again, but he once looked at me and said "Let me be your pain" because he hates seeing the scars I've done to myself and he doesn't want me to suffer alone. So it's turned into me just saying baby I need this violent, and he obliges, and when we're done the endourphines released from the pleasure help me to balance myself out and feel better, especially when he holds me afterwards or we shower together afterwards. I don't do the antidepressants because I hate how they make me feel, so he is my balance, the yin to my self-destructive yang. I hope that helps

 

[abella117]

power to both of you in your journey. maybe you wont get over (i hate to use such a term) your experiences, but may u find a way to not let it dictate who you are or how u live your life.

 

[DVS]

As BiBunny says, BDSM can be a form of self harm. I don't know how common it is, but I've met some women who were abused in life and have found the BDSM type of sex to their liking. I'm not a doctor, and what I'm saying is only a suggestion, but I've heard from other women that they need a release from the emotional feelings of being raped or abused. And as releases go, they need to be similar to the harmful act to be effective.

Cutting is a release. It's just a form your subconscious mind takes to channel the feelings away. It can seem simple and minor to the person doing it, but the act of cutting one's body is physically damaging. And the cutting always in the same spots, so scaring becomes very evident.

So, you've found another way to channel these feelings out of your mind. BDSM seems to be working for you, from what you say. Personally, I enjoy BDSM sex so I don't think it's a bad thing, what you're doing, if it's for the sex. But who's to say that all of us who enjoy BDSM aren't channeling something? The mind is still far from being totally charted and understood.

These women I've known would engage in BDSM sex because they enjoyed it, but also for the release they said it gave them. So, I look at this as a good way to experiment with what you're doing. I'm not saying you should go out and get raped again. And I'm not saying that any of your BDSM activities need to be exactly like your rape experience was. But, see if you can look at it as a form of cleansing your mind of the stresses and emotional feelings you carry with you.

I'd experiment with what works for you. You might be involved in things that aren't necessary for the cleansing to happen. What I mean is, something doesn't have to be as violent as the rape was or as hurtful, physically. It just has to give your subconsciousness a mechanism for release. So, maybe toning things down a bit could be good, to see if the more simple things are enough for a release of those feelings. Maybe just being helpless by some simple bondage would do it, or being spanked or something else that isn't that rough on you, physically.

I think that should be your rule. Sure, lasting marks will happen in BDSM play. But the key to it is don't go as far as making those lasting marks permanent. And even the lasting marks might not be necessary, depending on your experimentation. I'd make a fun game out of it. See what works and don't give up on something, just because it doesn't work the first time.

BDSM sex is not rocket science, but I think it has a lot to do with what goes on in your mind. I know I'd probably have more dates if I was into the basic vanilla sex, but I'm not. I'm more into the mental part of BDSM, but I do enjoy the physical aspect of it, too. You are not alone.

And if your counselor says enjoying BDSM for the sex is OK, then that's a good thing that she has said that. Many counselors feel BDSM sex is only a way to repeat the rape in your mind. Many consider all people who enjoy BDSM sex as sick. So, if your counselor isn't one of those, she's got a point in her favor.

Bottom line...don't go too far. There are many variations of BDSM and so there's a lot to explore. Rough sex is only one small part of it. Keep in mind what you are after, meaning a release, both sexually and maybe of the emotional feelings you have inside of you. Find the little kink that works for you and live with it. Start small. Don't get too physical at once. Maybe some mental bondage or physical bondage would work just the same.

I hope I explained this to be understood. I'm running on a lack of sleep and I have an important meeting to go to, in an hour and 1/2. I'm pumping in coffee, so I'll at least seem awake for the meeting. After this meeting, I think I'm going to wish I had a way of releasing some internal stress.

Good luck and play safe!

 

[eastern sun]

I agree with everyone else that only you can know whether you are harming yourself or not. And if you have decided that your own judgement cannot be trusted, then you should listen to the people you do trust until you are able to trust yourself again.

With that caveat, I want to add that our lives are therapeutic processes in which we work through the various issues, traumas, obstacles, illnesses that we have been dealt. I am firmly convinced that my interest in BDSM is both genetically-based and a learned behavior, and that it has the potential to harm me and bring me great pleasure and release.

Being able to determine whether you are being harmed, or harming someone else (instead of just blindly acting on one's impulses) is part of growing up and taking responsibility for your actions and decisions. Since you're asking these questions, you're probably concerned about what you're doing.

If you're concerned, it means there is some aspect of your experience that is challenging your notion of "how it should be." But only you can figure out what aspect it is and if it's healthy or not.

If you've been experiencing unhealthy relationships in which the "harmful" aspects are largely unconscious and un-premeditated, then it's possible that you might be uncomfortable with making these tendencies conscious even though it also seems like a step in the right direction. Keep watching yourself.

If it turns out that you are seeking ways to "harm" yourself, then examining it will be a good thing. If it turns out that you are not seeking ways to "harm" yourself, then examining it will be a good thing.

Perhaps you can tell . . . . I think living with these questions is very productive. All of your life becomes a very fascinating experiment in which the answers are given to any question you ask.

 

[Tryharder62]

I did a lot of looking at it on the internet when I started exploring this submissive side of mine. I have abuse in my background. It is suggested in survey after survey that if polled a lot of submissives have abuse in their background. Just me personally I shut down my feelings for so long. The thought of feeling anything sounded good. I couldn't feel much if it wasn't toward the intensity of pain.

I can only speak for myself of course, no one else, but I think that if you are careful to have a trust with your dominate (To have him stop when you have a flashback)- and hopefully learn the intensity of a session that brings them on. Tell him your experience of what happened in your rape. Then I think it is not self harm. If you put yourself in situations that lead to you being hurt then I think it is a problem. I might ask myself though if that is the only way you know how to feel arousal. Try a "vanilla" session. Just a thought.

Hugs to you for sharing this with us here. A courageous thing to do.

 

[DVS]

I did a lot of looking at it on the internet when I started exploring this submissive side of mine. I have abuse in my background. It is suggested in survey after survey that if polled a lot of submissives have abuse in their background. Just me personally I shut down my feelings for so long. The thought of feeling anything sounded good. I couldn't feel much if it wasn't toward the intensity of pain.

I can only speak for myself of course, no one else, but I think that if you are careful to have a trust with your dominate (To have him stop when you have a flashback)- and hopefully learn the intensity of a session that brings them on. Tell him your experience of what happened in your rape. Then I think it is not self harm. If you put yourself in situations that lead to you being hurt then I think it is a problem. I might ask myself though if that is the only way you know how to feel arousal. Try a "vanilla" session. Just a thought.

Hugs to you for sharing this with us here. A courageous thing to do.

I have never been raped (well, I'm male), so I'm only into BDSM for the enjoyment of it. But, I know I would never be able to enjoy a strictly vanilla session. Personally, I'd have to have bondage, spanking or something involved. So, I don't know if trying a vanilla session would be a good test. I think most of us into BDSM find vanilla sessions pretty boring.

Now, if you can get aroused with a vanilla session, I think that's great. But, I wouldn't assume anything is bad, if you don't.

 

[Tryharder62]

I think you are right DVS. Didn't know if she had tried it. Just a thought.

 

[confusedtears]

(firstly males can be raped).

I do enjoy vanilla sex with my boyfriend. I mean I don't come but that's not from lack of trying!!!

Im tired tonight so not really taking this in but thank you all so much for the comments. Xx

 

[DVS]

(firstly males can be raped).

I do enjoy vanilla sex with my boyfriend. I mean I don't come but that's not from lack of trying!!!

Im tired tonight so not really taking this in but thank you all so much for the comments. Xx

I know men can be raped. My comment just meant this male hadn't been raped, so I just enjoy BDSM for the fun of it.

Trust me...I don't let NObody get behind me without knowing their purpose.

 

[BiBunny]

I'm to the point now that I agree with Netzach that we're all a little fucked up, or else we wouldn't be here. And there's nothing wrong with that. I don't really understand why people so desperately want this to be "normal" because it isn't. And that's just fine. It's all a question of what each person can live with, rather than what is 100% normal, healthy, etc. Because, really, in the grand scheme of things? Nothing's 100% normal, healthy, etc.

 

[waaitg]

There seems to be an assumption here that the counselor is biased against Bdsm, and as a result cannot be impartial.

Rather than try to second guess the motives of someone who is a trained professional, perhaps try to seek out a therapist who does have experience with treating people into BDSM?

This way you can get the benefit of a trained professional who is better qualified to understand your situation without worrying that they are trying to address a matter that their training has not covered.

W~

 

[DVS]

There seems to be an assumption here that the counselor is biased against Bdsm, and as a result cannot be impartial.

Rather than try to second guess the motives of someone who is a trained professional, perhaps try to seek out a therapist who does have experience with treating people into BDSM?

This way you can get the benefit of a trained professional who is better qualified to understand your situation without worrying that they are trying to address a matter that their training has not covered.

W~

More than a few counselors are anti-BDSM, and assume we're all sick. But she said she likes her counselor, who is OK with her sexual experimenting, from a sexual point of view at least. That's a good point in favor of her counselor.

 

[His_pet_slut]

So much I could say here, but you don't need the entire story of my life. Suffice it to say that I am likely much older than you, but have been through similar situations.

Molested at age 9 by male adolescent family friend. Other family dynamics that also played a huge role. A severely abusive first marriage that I still sometimes marvel that I escaped.

Promiscuity, mild bdsm play in second marriage but didn't really know what it was.

Some self abuse.

A recurrent theme, unless there was a element of kink via either exhibitionism, hard/forceful sex or full on bdsm, I also had to work like hell to orgasm.

The thing is, with bdsm? I don't have to work to orgasm. Even the times I'm not allowed to orgasm, I enjoy the hell out of sex. I don't feel the need to dabble in self harm and I am happy.

When not in the bedroom or interacting in some fashion with my Master, I am confident and self-assured. I have a business I own. I do a lot of volunteer work in my community and am considered a leader in several areas of knowledge. I honestly do not believe I would be where I am if I had not embarked on this journey 7 years ago.

Oh yeah...did I mention the sex, which I have always loved sex....but now? OMG...it is quite phenomenal.

So...for me, bdsm has been a road to better mental health than I have had in decades...if ever.

 

[HottieMama]

I tend to stay away from the psychoanalysis type questions that are occasionally posted here, but I just had to say something here.

Almost ANYTHING can be a form of self-harm. Food, alcohol, the internet, sex, kink, being a workaholic, etc..etc. It depends on the individual themselves if a particular act is self-harming to them. Perhaps there IS some transference of the harming behaviors going on right now. That happens frequently when a person quits an addictive behavior. Something else needs to provide the release, the euphoria, the catharsis. (Have you read or discussed anything about the addiction model in self-harming behavior? If not, I highly recommend it.) It serves a purpose and for a time helps the person cope with being without their primary "substance." (Much like how a recently clean heroin addict with typically chain-smoke and eat extreme amounts of sugary foods.)

I am not your therapist, so I can't tell you for sure if this is helping or hindering you. I would urge you to closely monitor your emotional state before, during, and especially AFTER a play session. Do you have the urge to cut more strongly than usual at any of those times? Are you able to deal with the endorphin high from play, and the resulting endorphin crash when all is said and done? If BDSM play isn't triggering your urge to cut, and you are fully able to deal with the highs and lows, then go ahead and enjoy your exploration...

Take Care...and you can PM me if you would like to chat more...

 

[confusedtears]

Hi everyone.

Thank you so much for your comments im so overwhelmed.

I'm so sorry some people have had similar experiences.

I don't have any greater need to cut before/during/after-if snything the desire is significantly less.

All your open minded responses have told me that continuing is fine, if I take it really really slowly, keep communicating with my friend (who knows everything btw), ensure good after care and generally just keep taking stock of how I'm feeling. I'm hoping if I do that I can't go far wrong.

I'm all excited to see him tomorrow now! x

 

[abella117]

You have fun now, and remember to play nicely

 

[Tryharder62]

Just find it interesting the several comments about having difficulty orgasming without bdsm. Thought I was alone.

Do have fun now. You deserve it. Take good care of yourself

 

[roomfor1more]

Personally, I believe your therapist is wrong and is not trained enough about BDSM to render a professional judgement. From they way you wrote your question it suggests to me that your therapist is focusing on the S&M aspect of BDSM and is not considering all variations of BDSM. Also, I feel, you therapist may be focusing on the fact you tend to take a submissive role and being submissive can sometimes be seen as being a victim thereby leading to harm.

If it was me, I would challenge your therapist on their training and work with BDSM. Also, I would ask how many professionally written articles they have published and how many presentations they have done on BDSM for their peers. My guess they have not done much, if any work on the subject. Should that be the case then, in my opinion if this is not an area of expertise for them then I would discount the statement as being opinion instead of professional judgement.

Finally if BDSM is doing you harm, my feeling you are probably the best judge of that and you do not need to pay a counsellor to make decisions for you.