Tag Lines

[Innuendos]

Yeah, that's tag lines, not "tan lines".

What I'm looking for is some feedback from other authors or editors on what works and what doesn't for your own tag lines. Let me preface this by saying I absolutely despise the tag lines I've come up with my first two chapters, and don't feel like my third is all that hot either - I feel like I'm being vague to the point of obtuseness in an attempt to avoid spoiling the chapter of the story.

Any tips for generating quality tag lines, finding the balance between not throwing spoilers out but not being too vague while doing it?

 

[sr71plt]

How would you know whether they are "working" or not? There are too many variables on viewing to isolate them to tags, I think.

 

[Innuendos]

How would you know whether they are "working" or not? There are too many variables on viewing to isolate them to tags, I think.

???

I'm talking about the descriptive text beneath the titles. I thought those were called 'tag lines'?

Example: I Will Love You Forever Ch. 21
tag line - "Peace at Last?"

Example: Prolonging the Inevitable
tag line - "The birth of a Rebel."

I imagine they only "work" as well as they convince someone that the story is an interesting read, and I don't feel like my tag lines are terribly engaging.

My own chapters:
Sweet Dreams Are Made of This Ch. 02
tag line - "Picking and Choosing"

And I'm looking at my tag line and thinking, "This kind of sucks."

 

[sr71plt]

???

I'm talking about the descriptive text beneath the titles. I thought those were called 'tag lines'?

Example: I Will Love You Forever Ch. 21
tag line - "Peace at Last?"

Example: Prolonging the Inevitable
tag line - "The birth of a Rebel."

I imagine they only "work" as well as they convince someone that the story is an interesting read, and I don't feel like my tag lines are terribly engaging.

My own chapters:
Sweet Dreams Are Made of This Ch. 02
tag line - "Picking and Choosing"

And I'm looking at my tag line and thinking, "This kind of sucks."

Oh, I thought you meant the keywords. The submission page calls the line you mean "Description." I think that's very important in getting the attention of a new reader to your stories (readers who already like your work probably will click in on the basis of your name alone). How important this is beyond that calls for the same answer I gave in the other post, though--too many variables to make much useful out of it.

 

[Innuendos]

Oh, I thought you meant the keywords. The submission page calls the line you mean "Description." I think that's very important in getting the attention of a new reader to your stories (readers who already like your work probably will click in on the basis of your name alone). How important this is beyond that calls for the same answer I gave in the other post, though--too many variables to make much useful out of it.

Oh right, for some reason I was remembering it as tag lines, with the other ones being story tags. Holdover from somewhere else maybe. Anyway, yeah... as a relative novice to LE, I don't have the benefit of name recognition - I've only got two chapters of twelve from one story released, so I really don't have anything to base name-recognition on, I think.

It feels like there is more I could do with the description, but I'm arsed to think of what it might be.

Thanks for the input, anyway!

 

[Darkniciad]

When you're writing a chapter story, taglines are always more difficult. You're not summing up a whole story, you're just summing up the action in one chapter. It tends to take away some of the punch.

One thing some people do is use a single description line that sums up a whole story, and post it with each chapter.

As to the importance, I'd say it's just as important as your author name, title, and the H.

The case in point I use there is whenever I write a Milf story and have the word "Mom" in the description line, the hits on the story go up by 50-100% over similar stories without it.

( If you're not aware, Mom/Son incest is pretty much the most-read subject on the site. The word "Mom" and its variants will trigger them even if the story isn't incest )

The description line is one of the most prominent features of your story on the New list, where most of your hits come from. In my opinion, it can make or break a story/chapter.

From what I've discovered, the most effective taglines are pornish, and perhaps a little punnish. If you're writing a serious story or a romantic story, you can't really take advantage of that. But if you're just writing a hot story, you can't go wrong with something that screams of heat inside.

Mom's stockings inspire son's Christmas stuffing.
Wife gets a Halloween treat from a hunky pilot.
Hot Mom's witch costume gets her a bone for her cauldron.
Nudist studs have their own cream for ice-cream vendor.

You can get away with some eye-catchers for softer stories under the right circumstances, though:

A virgin forest and a virgin love will both last forever.

 

[Innuendos]

reply to

Unfortunately the incest thing is a squick for me. I flirt the line with it a bit in my own story, but I feel like I'd probably end up pissing people off in not delivering on what it is promised/tagged with. Seem to recall a warning about having some care in tagging a post...?

I'm guessing, though, that the tag/description line will be as important for my chapter-based story as my name or title, because I've only briefly gotten the 'H' tag, and my story isn't really geared towards the "hot" element, even though I make it a point to have some sort of sexual element in each chapter. In general, it's definitely softer stuff, more of an emphasis on plot, light drama and romance.

I tried the punning thing in my subtitles. Perhaps I should be using my subtitles as my description line, or stick to descriptive and short summaries?

 

[sr71plt]

No, I wouldn't promise more than is delivered. But as far as results, you do need to keep in mind that this is a sex story site. Lots of non-sexy stories do just fine--but this is a sex story site, so the edge goes to the stories one expects to find on such a site.

 

[Innuendos]

No, I wouldn't promise more than is delivered. But as far as results, you do need to keep in mind that this is a sex story site. Lots of non-sexy stories do just fine--but this is a sex story site, so the edge goes to the stories one expects to find on such a site.

Oh yes, I definitely include an element of sex in each of my chapters; Sweet Dreams is definitely _not_ a non-sex story. But it's rather ... vanilla... compared to much of the rest of the stuff on LE. Probably loses some appeal in that, but I write what I can, y'know?

Just gotta figure out a way to make my description line reflect that in a way that will appeal to those who aren't necessarily looking for the other kinds of stories.

 

[Darkniciad]

Flirting with it and not following through can sometimes be a problem. It depends upon category. Not following through in incest is a death knell for the story. In other categories, even hinting at it can be a death knell if the readers aren't warned up front by an author's note at the top of the story. In yet other categories, putting that warning in there just encourages people to bomb the story unread and leave nasty comments.

Just using it in your description line, not so much. If you put it in the right category ( Mature, for example ) then you'll be fine. You still get the draw of the word, and if it's appropriate ( her being a mother is directly related to the story, such as her having a hot encounter with one of her son's friends ) then nobody's going to dock you for it.

The mom/son kink people still show up, and they're usually happy with what they find ( I strongly suspect they mentally substitute your character's name with "Mom" throughout )

You should always deliver what your tags and description line claim, but that doesn't mean you can't take advantage of hot buttons, so long as they're appropriate to the story.

Overall, as a new author here, don't be too discouraged. It takes a while to build a readership with the vast amount of competition you have every day. As you put out more and more stories, your name gets out there more, which draws more votes, which draws more eyes. It's a snowball effect that you have to keep rolling by producing new work.

So long as you do that, you'll start to see those Hs earlier on new stories, and see your older stories come up over the bar as well.

SRs absolutely right that the bulk of readers are here for spanking material. There's a large enough reader base for pretty much anything, but it's slower going unless you're writing down and dirty porn.

In this pen name, where I write primarily long involved stories that have a lot of other stuff between the sex:

82.39 average votes 13795 average views

In another pen name, where I write 4-7k word porn:

515.94 average votes 56221 average views

Unfortunately the incest thing is a squick for me. I flirt the line with it a bit in my own story, but I feel like I'd probably end up pissing people off in not delivering on what it is promised/tagged with. Seem to recall a warning about having some care in tagging a post...?

I'm guessing, though, that the tag/description line will be as important for my chapter-based story as my name or title, because I've only briefly gotten the 'H' tag, and my story isn't really geared towards the "hot" element, even though I make it a point to have some sort of sexual element in each chapter. In general, it's definitely softer stuff, more of an emphasis on plot, light drama and romance.

I tried the punning thing in my subtitles. Perhaps I should be using my subtitles as my description line, or stick to descriptive and short summaries?

 

[Innuendos]

Flirting with it and not following through can sometimes be a problem. It depends upon category. Not following through in incest is a death knell for the story. In other categories, even hinting at it can be a death knell if the readers aren't warned up front by an author's note at the top of the story. In yet other categories, putting that warning in there just encourages people to bomb the story unread and leave nasty comments.

Okay, so let me direct a case-specific question to you on this.

I do not story-tag my chapters as incest anyway, because that's really not what this story is about. It deals with the sexual trope of a three-way relationship between one guy and two sisters, with the implicit understanding in the relationship that there will be none of that dynamic. It's brought up right off the bat as soon as the second sister is added to the triangle, and referred to elsewhere in other chapters.

Obviously, to a degree I'm flirting with a secondary trope that follows from the first involving the guy bangs sisters, sisters have sex w/ each other, but I have no intention of going there and I think it's clear enough in the course of the story.

Given that I'm not leading things in that direction, and have added no tags to suggest that such material is present, do you think I should worry about adding a warning? Or not bother? As you say, it can go one of both ways, so I'll defer to whatever you think is better.

Just using it in your description line, not so much. If you put it in the right category ( Mature, for example ) then you'll be fine. You still get the draw of the word, and if it's appropriate ( her being a mother is directly related to the story, such as her having a hot encounter with one of her son's friends ) then nobody's going to dock you for it.

The tags for the first two chapters have been "First Time", as both were virgins, and my intent is to label the rest for Romance. That work, you think?

The mom/son kink people still show up, and they're usually happy with what they find ( I strongly suspect they mentally substitute your character's name with "Mom" throughout )

Doesn't bother me in the slightest, to each their own. Just not my style, and I don't want to lead people on with something that's not there.

Overall, as a new author here, don't be too discouraged. It takes a while to build a readership with the vast amount of competition you have every day. As you put out more and more stories, your name gets out there more, which draws more votes, which draws more eyes. It's a snowball effect that you have to keep rolling by producing new work.

Speaking of which, does LE really have this many readers? I have to say I'm kind of shocked to see upwards of 4500 views on one of my chapters. I understand that the # cuts in about half for spiders and bots, but 2400? Glitch, or reflective of real #s of LE readership out there?

 

[Darkniciad]

I'd say you're well within line with your tag choices, and I don't think anybody's going to balk at that, warning or no warning. Any time there are sisters involved in a triangle, it's going to come up.

IOW, as you were, Captain

As to Lit:

http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/literotica.com#

You don't get a traffic ranking like that without having some serious number of people moving through the site. How accurate the views are with respect to the number of people actually reading your story is questionable, but considering how few people will take the time to vote on something anywhere, if you extrapolate that out from the number of votes, it's still a lot of people reading your story.

The NFL's U.S. Traffic rank is 309 and Lit's is 623. That's not too damn shabby for a amateur erotic writer's site.

 

[cocput]

6 word challenge

I saw your tags and I think you should seriously try the 6 word story challenge. Try to think about the entire story and say it in 6 words. You may overshoot the limit, but if you do so, just pray to god that it fits in the description box.
The key is that your description will be ready along with the title of the story.

As a writer, i usually play it safe. If i could bring in "hot" terms naturally into the one line descriptions, i let it come. But otherwise, I just think of giving a sense of story outline without giving away the climax.
Only exception to the rule is fetish or other special ones. For example: "Bobby shares his berth and virginity" along with the title "Love in Train" (this story is not in this site) reveals a particular fetish of having sex in a moving train, where the protagonist Bobby loses his virginity to another virgin, who eventually becomes his lover, while they are forced to share a berth in a train. This is a clearly meant for "train sex" fans, optionally public sex fans, and the description talks about the niche on virginity and forced situation. The category "Gay" will give more insight into the type of action that can be expected.


If you are new to writing, as a reader I wont be expecting the cute little tricks in the description lines. As was suggested, if a reader likes one of your stories, they may read some of your older stories without looking at the description. Xart comes into my mind, where i liked one of the stories too much that i ended reading a whole bunch of other stories.

I like feelers for the plot when i look at a description, as I am not interested in a 2K word quickie. Before I start a multi-part series, I usually scan through the description to understand the general flow. You are posting in lit and everyone expects that you are having a few sex scenes in the story anyways.

A classic example from this site is the 42-page story, Threads: the island, on top of the incest hall of fame.
"Kyle gets an inheritance, sisters and trouble"
Here I get the feeling that Kyle is the protagonist; the story revolves around inheritance(somebody dies and leaves something for Kyle), their is brother-sister action, in which he may receive sexual favors from more than one sister; and their is serious drama mostly involving the protagonists and other main characters (sisters). No matter what the rating says, the reader is not going to spent time to read 42 pages, if he doesn't expect this much.

 

[Innuendos]

Thanks for the input, everyone.

An tangentially relevant question - were I to submit an edit for those description lines for the chapters of SDAMT that have already been released, does it take the stories off the metaphorical shelf, or do they stay where they are?

 

[Darkniciad]

When you submit an edit, it simply changes what you requested. The story doesn't appear on the New list again, and it never vanishes from public view.

Once the "edited" submission vanishes from your list, wait at least 24 hours for the changes to show up in the original story/chapter on the public side before you panic. They won't appear immediately after the edits are approved and applied.

Why, I don't know *laugh* Edits used to show up immediately, but that changed not so long ago.

 

[Innuendos]

When you submit an edit, it simply changes what you requested. The story doesn't appear on the New list again, and it never vanishes from public view.

Once the "edited" submission vanishes from your list, wait at least 24 hours for the changes to show up in the original story/chapter on the public side before you panic. They won't appear immediately after the edits are approved and applied.

Why, I don't know *laugh* Edits used to show up immediately, but that changed not so long ago.

Alrighty, thanks.

It makes sense, at least to me, if it's a moderator-approved process. The ability to edit something after it's already been added to the forum lends itself to some abuses.

 

[Darkniciad]

Alrighty, thanks.

It makes sense, at least to me, if it's a moderator-approved process. The ability to edit something after it's already been added to the forum lends itself to some abuses.

Yes, but it's already been moderated as soon as that "edited" submission vanishes. That means Laurel has read it, approved the changes, and then applied them to the original submission.

Must be something in the back-end. Archive and back-up, perhaps? The change to FURLs?

I'm sure there's a reason for it, but like so many changes of late, it really needs to be documented in the FAQs. I can't even keep track of the number of posts from people screaming that their edits weren't applied, only to tell them to go look again and having them come back

For that matter, the whole "start a new submission to edit" thing needs to go away. The basic infrastructure for retrieving the existing information is already in there ( otherwise, you couldn't go back and "make changes" on new submissions ) and there's already a link in place.

You should be able to click the "approved" link ( or rather, an "edit" link below "Approved" ) and bring up all the existing data, edit it in the same form, and then submit. Appending a data bit to mark it as a new "edited" submission should be a dawdle to code.

It would save me so much time *laugh* Not only in my own editing, but explaining the over-complicated process here to those who are left confused because the FAQs aren't really clear on the process.

Not to mention the amount of human error potential that could be eliminated by automatically linking the edited submission to an existing submission with a data bit. As it stands now, Laurel has to look at the title of your edited submission, and then figure out which regular submission it's supposed to be applied to.

I know that if I was her, I would be telling Manu to put everything else down and get that done NOW. It surely would save her a lot of time, trial, and tribulation.

Okay, end rant *laugh*

 

[Innuendos]

I'm probably just herp'a'derpin because of the late hour, but I could have sworn there was a "submit an edit" option on the Views section of my Submissions profile. Can't seem to find it now, and I'd like to edit them pesky descriptions. Point me in the right direction?

 

[Darkniciad]

See what I mean? *laugh*

Here's how it works:

• Start a new submission.
• Use the same title ( or as much as will fit ) as your original story/chapter plus something such as *EDIT*
• Fill in whatever element you're changing with the appropriate changes. You can fill in any other elements that you aren't changing with placeholders. Every section of the form has to be filled out.
• If editing story text, paste the entire text of the story/chapter in the "story text" section, not just the edited portions.
• If editing any other element of the submission and not the story text, copy the "notes" section into the "story text" section to fill that part of the form.

The "Notes" section is the most important part of an edited submssion.

• To eliminate the potential for human error, copy the URL from your browser bar when viewing the first page of your story/chapter. You only need the end part that represents your title. This is unique to the story/chapter, and will help Laurel determine which submission you're editing. Paste this into the "notes" section.
• Detail exactly what you're changing. In the case of story text only, say that you're editing the story text for xxxx errors in the original. For anything else ( title, description, keywords ) list each element you're editing and the change you want made. I actually list the original and say "change to:"

Preview, then Submit.

Technically, the edit will take just as long to pass through the queue as a normal submission, though I have seen edits go up more quickly, and in bulk. I had six edited chapters of a story all go up at once in two days back when the average wait was five days, for instance.

When the "edited" submission ( which will show up in your private submission list right next to the original ) vanishes, the edit should be approved and applied to the original.

As mentioned earlier, wait at least 24 hours for the changes to appear on the public side. When editing story text, it may be longer if the story/chapter is long, and not all of the edits may show up immediately. I've seen the edits to page 1-2 show up, then a few hours later, page 3, so on and so forth.

 

[Innuendos]

As always, appreciated sir. *salutes*