So typical these days to be fired for doing your job.......

[Johnny_Ray_Wilson]

http://gma.yahoo.com/chicago-woman-...s-unemployment-claim-145926016--abc-news.html

.(snip)....punched out of work for lunch Jan. 28, 2010, but remained at her desk to finish a project assigned by a manager because she did not plan to eat that day, she said. ..

....That manager observed Smiley working on a spreadsheet on her computer, answering the phone and responding to questions by people who approached her desk....

...Her former employer.................did not return a request for comment. ...(end of snip)

 

[Johnny_Ray_Wilson]

The more I post stuff like this here, the more I am convinced all the dickheads here have no clue as to what it like to work unselfishly to get a pay check and support the ones who never worked an honest day in their life.

 

[JohnnySavage]

The more I post stuff like this here, the more I am convinced all the dickheads here have no clue as to what it like to work unselfishly to get a pay check and support the ones who never worked an honest day in their life.

If she was subject to the FLSA, the employer could have been fined for letting her violate the rules. Why aren't you criticizing her for putting her employer in that position?

 

[Johnny_Ray_Wilson]

If she was subject to the FLSA, the employer could have been fined for letting her violate the rules. Why aren't you criticizing her for putting her employer in that position?

Her employer placed her in that position. Not her. She did what her boss told her to do, on her lunch break without pay. And her boss fucked with her because of that? Gimme a freaking break! She deserved to win the lawsuit.

You are one of the few GB posters with the insight to see that.

 

[TexasWife25]

I didn't want to do this but....

I agree with Johnny Savage

She was warned by HR that she had to take a half hour lunch.
She was working, while clocked out, in a prominent position in the office
where she was very visible. Her employer could have faced huge fines and
penalties for that. No where in there does it say her boss told her to work
off the clock, he gave her an assignment, she choose to work on it when she
should have been on break.

 

[semen4her]

....That manager observed Smiley working on a spreadsheet on a computer, answering the phone and responding to questions by people who approached her desk....

...Her former employer.................did not return a request for comment. ...(end of snip)

Trouble was that she was the cleaning lady.

 

[Johnny_Ray_Wilson]

I didn't want to do this but....

I agree with Johnny Savage

She was warned by HR that she had to take a half hour lunch.
She was working, while clocked out, in a prominent position in the office
where she was very visible. Her employer could have faced huge fines and
penalties for that. No where in there does it say her boss told her to work
off the clock, he gave her an assignment, she choose to work on it when she
should have been on break.

Let me get this straight. Say you work for me. You been w/the same company for 10+ good years with a good record working your tail off the old fashioned way (you earn it). I give you an assignment outside of your expertise' (its in the link I provided), and you agree to do it. Then you decide to work on that assignment on your own free time to satisfy what I asked of you? Do you think, for one moment, I would be in my right mind to fire you? Also, you keep getting interrupted with other BS not related to the same task, on you own free time lunch break? And you have not eaten a bite, when everyone else has had their lunch?

Does anyone here honestly think, any boss in their right mind, is going to say,"Hey! That person who saved my ass on that assignment did not take a break! She/he worked for free for a whole 30 minutes to one hour! Fire them!"?

Nevermind. People today really do think that way.

 

[Johnny_Ray_Wilson]

I didn't want to do this but....

I agree with Johnny Savage

She was warned by HR that she had to take a half hour lunch.
She was working, while clocked out, in a prominent position in the office
where she was very visible. Her employer could have faced huge fines and
penalties for that. No where in there does it say her boss told her to work
off the clock, he gave her an assignment, she choose to work on it when she
should have been on break.

Not to seem like I am picking on you, but in most companies, Human Resources really have no clue as to the facts vs common sense. Besides, an HR works for the company in question.....who do you think that person is going to side with?

Trouble was that she was the cleaning lady.

You are not exactly helping matters at this moment.

 

[TexasWife25]

"...said another manager told her it was time for her to go to lunch and step away from her desk, but she refused"

"...The company's human resources director then became involved, explaining that hourly non-exempt employees were required to take a 30-minute lunch break..... Not following the policy would be a violation of Illinois' labor laws..."

"...The prominent location of Smiley's desk, "which was directly at the front door of the office, made this particularly important for her," She and Smiley had "many discussions ... over her eating breakfast at her desk"

"...Illinois is an employment-at-will state, which means the employer can fire someone for a good reason, no reason, or a bad reason,"

Would I have fired her? No, I think it was a shitty thing to do
However, you can't work on your lunch break. Again, her employer could have faced huge fines, and an in depth, intrusive review of their work practices, simply for her having clocked out and continuing to work.

Personally Ive always been irritated by this. Lunch breaks should be optional. There were many times where I would have rather stayed to work on a project then clock out .. and I would rather have gotten paid for that half hour, but its not up to the employer, they have to follow the letter of the law.

 

[Image]

I didn't want to do this but....

I agree with Johnny Savage

She was warned by HR that she had to take a half hour lunch.
She was working, while clocked out, in a prominent position in the office
where she was very visible. Her employer could have faced huge fines and
penalties for that. No where in there does it say her boss told her to work
off the clock, he gave her an assignment, she choose to work on it when she
should have been on break.

You are looking more and more like an idiot here every day. Just my personal observation...

Off the clock is off the clock. What she chooses to do with her 1/2 hour is her business. Who decided she was doing company business? She could have been surfing Literotica

 

[TexasWife25]

You are looking more and more like an idiot here every day. Just my personal observation...

Off the clock is off the clock. What she chooses to do with her 1/2 hour is her business. Who decided she was doing company business? She could have been surfing Literotica

Have you ever worked a minimum wage job?
Sadly it doesn't work like that .. I was actually written up once for stopping to help a customer while on my lunch break. Yes, I was mad, and yes it was a shitty thing for my boss to do. However, as he pointed out, while he would love for me to work and not get paid, if someone saw me, and reported it(say an angry employee) then the company could have been fined and he could have been fired.

When put in context, she should have just listened to her boss, who asked to please step away from her desk and go to lunch.


Just a link

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/02/business/02walmart.html

Walmart had to pay HUGE fines, for employees who clocked out and continued to work

 

[CandiCame]

Um... yeah, legally she had to be fired. That's kind of a no-brainer. You can't work off the clock. That's day 1 shit. You learn that when you're 14- you have to take your 15s and your 30s. You think I wouldn't rather have the extra money!? If you have a shitty job with a lot of sitting/standing around, of course you'd rather work it. But you can't. She was fired for not following really obvious workplace rules.

Not to be that guy, but "duh."

 

[Johnny_Ray_Wilson]

"...said another manager told her it was time for her to go to lunch and step away from her desk, but she refused"

"...The company's human resources director then became involved, explaining that hourly non-exempt employees were required to take a 30-minute lunch break..... Not following the policy would be a violation of Illinois' labor laws..."

"...The prominent location of Smiley's desk, "which was directly at the front door of the office, made this particularly important for her," She and Smiley had "many discussions ... over her eating breakfast at her desk"

"...Illinois is an employment-at-will state, which means the employer can fire someone for a good reason, no reason, or a bad reason,"

Would I have fired her? No, I think it was a shitty thing to do
However, you can't work on your lunch break. Again, her employer could have faced huge fines, and an in depth, intrusive review of their work practices, simply for her having clocked out and continuing to work.

Personally Ive always been irritated by this. Lunch breaks should be optional. There were many times where I would have rather stayed to work on a project then clock out .. and I would rather have gotten paid for that half hour, but its not up to the employer, they have to follow the letter of the law.

So she wanted to present a good image and set a good example on her employer's behalf by being simultaneously professional and friendly to a co-worker/business associate? Nothing wrong with that. Seems you have been brainwashed of your core goodness by the Liberal mindset.

Most bosses/employers would reward such an employee, one way or another, either out of their pockets, some sort of 'that-a-boy/girl!', a special note in evaluations, etc....

Have you ever worked a minimum wage job?
Sadly it doesn't work like that .. I was actually written up once for stopping to help a customer while on my lunch break. Yes, I was mad, and yes it was a shitty thing for my boss to do. However, as he pointed out, while he would love for me to work and not get paid, if someone saw me, and reported it(say an angry employee) then the company could have been fined and he could have been fired.

When put in context, she should have just listened to her boss, who asked to please step away from her desk and go to lunch.


Just a link

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/02/business/02walmart.html

Walmart had to pay HUGE fines, for employees who clocked out and continued to work

You are talking to Image, I know. But, yes, I have been in that situation. Basically, I told them to kiss my ass. And I was not alone in doing that. (I am still fending off ambulance-chasing lawyers in a lawsuit, against that company,for monetary gain of their own). Best singular job related decision I made for myself at that time. That owner of that once wonderful business, had to shut it down shortly thereafter because of their attitude. An attitude I seen well in advance prior to them going out of business.

Consider today's failing economy and lack of jobs. The residual workload goes to remaining employees of any company cutting corners. To fire a good employee for taking up the slack is utter self-destruction for the employer. The Liberal mindset (and often labor union mindset) comes into play for firing them over performing a task that cannot be completed within the normal time frame. They do the task to keep from being fired. Simple laborers get fired for violating rules of the state, even if it is for the benefit of the employer, and ultimately, the same state that benefits from such a dedicated worker.

 

[GracefullyYours]

My two cents

I think there's a lot to be said for being a team player, and if she was truly doing the work her boss assigned, her intentions were above board, and she was genuinely giving up personal time to help the business, then it was wrong for the company to fire her. She was sitting at her desk, not trimming trees our performing surgery on the clock, so it's not like there's a workman's comp issue if she types a bit while on the clock. In most companies, if you're looking to be promoted, this sort of "going the extra mile" is encouraged.

However:

1. If the company, for whatever reason, had a long-established policy that she couldn't sit at her desk while eating (that looks unprofessional) then she was in the wrong to disobey it. If this issue had been addressed with her before, then she's doubly wrong in failing to heed her superior's instructions. Her time is certainly her own, but the business has a right to insist that employees take their breaks in a designated area or leave the premises.

2. I've fired plenty of people in my career, and I'm wondering if this isn't a "tip of the iceberg" kind of deal. Granted I've never worked in an "employ at will" state, but the article mentions that she was reprimanded for eating breakfast at her desk as well as lunch. One of the first things that came to my mind was the possibility that they wanted her gone for some other reason entirely, and merely used eating at her desk as one more thing to document. If a required lunch time is "in the company handbook" then that's a very clear-cut, dispassionate, and easy to document "violation."

3. Another issue is how she's coming across to clients if she's sitting at the front desk just inside the doors. If she's sitting at her desk on her break.....her behavior would have to be absolutely indistinguishable from her behavior when she's on the clock. If she's manning her post, she can't ignore a customer or be rude to a customer and justify it by saying she's on break. I'm definitely NOT saying that's what happened EVER, but I could see it being a possibility.

 

[Johnny_Ray_Wilson]

Um... yeah, legally she had to be fired. That's kind of a no-brainer. You can't work off the clock. That's day 1 shit. You learn that when you're 14- you have to take your 15s and your 30s. You think I wouldn't rather have the extra money!? If you have a shitty job with a lot of sitting/standing around, of course you'd rather work it. But you can't. She was fired for not following really obvious workplace rules.

Not to be that guy, but "duh."

Still unemployed for being late 'x' amount of times right? As much as I like you dude, I would have fired you too. Being on time is not really the point. Being there fully prepared, with others waiting for you, is the entire point your ex-boss was trying to impress upon you.

 

[CandiCame]

Still unemployed for being late 'x' amount of times right? As much as I like you dude, I would have fired you too. Being on time is not really the point. Being there fully prepared, with others waiting for you, is the entire point your ex-boss was trying to impress upon you.

Yeah, I know how to get fucking fired. Not taking your breaks is just as bad as being late. I've been fired for that to.

If there's one person on this board who knows how to get fired, it's me. I've been through 5 jobs since I joined- not even a year ago. She fucked herself over. I don't really understand why you think she didn't. If they'd already warned her- and they usually give you three warnings, then you KNOW that you're gonna get fired. I was warned before. And I was late- though I still think it's fucking retarded to fire someone for being ONE MINUTE late. I wanna emphasize that- literally ONE MINUTE. And one of the previous three times I was late, I was in a major car crash. That guy was an asshole. Not saying he was wrong- you can be both right and an asshole. See: Rules Lawyer.

But yeah, they were obviously going to fire her. And she knew. She didn't want it bad enough or she wouldn't have been working off the clock and eating at her desk. Doing 2 things you know you aren't supposed to do at once is asking to get fired. I've done it when I wanted to get fired before. *shrugs*

edit: Having said that, she totally deserved unemployment. You should be able to get unemployment no matter how you were fired- it's insurance that you pay into while working. I've never understood why they deny cases. It's not like it's not your money already- they took it out of your checks. WTF, MIB?

 

[Johnny_Ray_Wilson]

I think there's a lot to be said for being a team player, and if she was truly doing the work her boss assigned, her intentions were above board, and she was genuinely giving up personal time to help the business, then it was wrong for the company to fire her. She was sitting at her desk, not trimming trees our performing surgery on the clock, so it's not like there's a workman's comp issue if she types a bit while on the clock. In most companies, if you're looking to be promoted, this sort of "going the extra mile" is encouraged.

However:

1. If the company, for whatever reason, had a long-established policy that she couldn't sit at her desk while eating (that looks unprofessional) then she was in the wrong to disobey it. If this issue had been addressed with her before, then she's doubly wrong in failing to heed her superior's instructions. Her time is certainly her own, but the business has a right to insist that employees take their breaks in a designated area or leave the premises.

2. I've fired plenty of people in my career, and I'm wondering if this isn't a "tip of the iceberg" kind of deal. Granted I've never worked in an "employ at will" state, but the article mentions that she was reprimanded for eating breakfast at her desk as well as lunch. One of the first things that came to my mind was the possibility that they wanted her gone for some other reason entirely, and merely used eating at her desk as one more thing to document. If a required lunch time is "in the company handbook" then that's a very clear-cut, dispassionate, and easy to document "violation."

3. Another issue is how she's coming across to clients if she's sitting at the front desk just inside the doors. If she's sitting at her desk on her break.....her behavior would have to be absolutely indistinguishable from her behavior when she's on the clock. If she's manning her post, she can't ignore a customer or be rude to a customer and justify it by saying she's on break. I'm definitely NOT saying that's what happened EVER, but I could see it being a possibility.

Correct. In all respects. Particularly in consideration of the labor laws that seem to only deal with abusive employers and/or lazy employees. The Illinois Dept. of Labor reviewed her case and eventually ruled in her favor.

 

[Johnny_Ray_Wilson]

Yeah, I know how to get fucking fired. Not taking your breaks is just as bad as being late. I've been fired for that to.

If there's one person on this board who knows how to get fired, it's me. I've been through 5 jobs since I joined- not even a year ago. She fucked herself over. I don't really understand why you think she didn't. If they'd already warned her- and they usually give you three warnings, then you KNOW that you're gonna get fired. I was warned before. And I was late- though I still think it's fucking retarded to fire someone for being ONE MINUTE late. I wanna emphasize that- literally ONE MINUTE. And one of the previous three times I was late, I was in a major car crash. That guy was an asshole. Not saying he was wrong- you can be both right and an asshole. See: Rules Lawyer.

But yeah, they were obviously going to fire her. And she knew. She didn't want it bad enough or she wouldn't have been working off the clock and eating at her desk. Doing 2 things you know you aren't supposed to do at once is asking to get fired. I've done it when I wanted to get fired before. *shrugs*

edit: Having said that, she totally deserved unemployment. You should be able to get unemployment no matter how you were fired- it's insurance that you pay into while working. I've never understood why they deny cases. It's not like it's not your money already- they took it out of your checks. WTF, MIB?

At least you are honest Candi. Courts and lawyers have to deal with the facts presented before them, regardless of good or ill intent.

I really hope you find a job that deserves you and that you deserve the job that wants you.

 

[CandiCame]

At least you are honest Candi. Courts and lawyers have to deal with the facts presented before them, regardless of good or ill intent.

I really hope you find a job that deserves you and that you deserve the job that wants you.

Well, the whole reason that you try to get them to fire you in that situation instead of just quitting is so that you can get unemployment. I like the truth. I wish everyone told the fucking truth- I like to know the world around me. It is what it is. I try to get fired from jobs I don't like. I don't like to work- so until someone's willing to pay me to play MW3 for 10 hours a day, I might just be fucked.

Having said that... Does anyone need a rent boy?

 

[Comshaw]

So she wanted to present a good image and set a good example on her employer's behalf by being simultaneously professional and friendly to a co-worker/business associate? Nothing wrong with that. Seems you have been brainwashed of your core goodness by the Liberal mindset.

Most bosses/employers would reward such an employee, one way or another, either out of their pockets, some sort of 'that-a-boy/girl!', a special note in evaluations, etc....



You are talking to Image, I know. But, yes, I have been in that situation. Basically, I told them to kiss my ass. And I was not alone in doing that. (I am still fending off ambulance-chasing lawyers in a lawsuit, against that company,for monetary gain of their own). Best singular job related decision I made for myself at that time. That owner of that once wonderful business, had to shut it down shortly thereafter because of their attitude. An attitude I seen well in advance prior to them going out of business.

Consider today's failing economy and lack of jobs. The residual workload goes to remaining employees of any company cutting corners. To fire a good employee for taking up the slack is utter self-destruction for the employer. The Liberal mindset (and often labor union mindset) comes into play for firing them over performing a task that cannot be completed within the normal time frame. They do the task to keep from being fired. Simple laborers get fired for violating rules of the state, even if it is for the benefit of the employer, and ultimately, the same state that benefits from such a dedicated worker.

For the life of me I can not understand why you insist on being so obtuse. Before you form a judgment against the company you need to know and weigh all the facts. After reading and rereading the article, it sounds to me like she was very resistant to direction from management. In fact it sounds like she as much as said "kiss it 'cause I'm doing it my way". Unless you are indispensable, there isn't anyone who can get away with that for an indefinite period without being held accountable.

Additionally a company can not let an employee work during a lunch break or the morning or afternoon rest breaks (commonly and erroneously called a "coffee break"). That's law. Not only Illinois law but federal law. And you are sadly mistaken if you believe most bosses would reward such behavior. That's not the way it happens in the real world. Also an employee can't "volunteer" their time for the company at their primary job. Again it's against the law.

Each of the above rules was put in place and are enforced for the protection of the employees. If those rules didn't exist, it would be very easy for a company to use the "they did it on their own" or "they volunteered their time" excuse when caught to explain why they were working their workers through lunch breaks with no compensation.

What I've detailed here is not opinion, but fact. A company with an employee that continuously disobeys work rules, especially ones that could lead to a very large monetary fine even if the company didn't sanction the action of the employee, will do what ever is necessary to protect themselves.



Comshaw

 

[KRCummings]

Yeah, you can't work during an unpaid lunch. Not in your office or at your desk or whatever. That's asking for hefty fines. No employer would allow that.
If she had gone home for lunch then no problem. Hell, she could have gone to Starbucks and worked there and it's no problem. At your work station? Can't do it.

 

[doctor_insanus]

Yeah, you can't work during an unpaid lunch. Not in your office or at your desk or whatever. That's asking for hefty fines. No employer would allow that.
If she had gone home for lunch then no problem. Hell, she could have gone to Starbucks and worked there and it's no problem. At your work station? Can't do it.

That was beaten into my head when I was hourly, and I had to beat it into other peoples' heads when I was salaried. I've seen more than one person get canned for working off the clock.

Doesn't matter if you agree with the rule or not; it's there, and they take it very seriously.

 

[renard_ruse]

http://gma.yahoo.com/chicago-woman-...s-unemployment-claim-145926016--abc-news.html

.(snip)....punched out of work for lunch Jan. 28, 2010, but remained at her desk to finish a project assigned by a manager because she did not plan to eat that day, she said. ..

....That manager observed Smiley working on a spreadsheet on her computer, answering the phone and responding to questions by people who approached her desk....

...Her former employer.................did not return a request for comment. ...(end of snip)

In California, legally the employer must give a lunch break after four hours of work. Perhaps its different in other states. I have to sign a timecard each week saying I was given a lunch break and took it, even though, the employer wink-wink doesn't say anything if you don't take it and keep working. However, they could technically get in big trouble for allowing it, at least that's my understanding how it works in California.

 

[Love_Puppy]

I work thru lunch. Why sit around for 45 minutes when I can shorten the day and get the hell out of there?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I worked pert nearly 45 years, and all that REALLY matters is how much money you make for the boss. If you make your boss enough money you can get away with murder.

Competence is good to have but it makes too many people look bad. Ditto for work ethic.

The problem with working thru lunch is it creates problems for co-workers who milk the overtime.