did canada retroactively unmarry GLBT couples?

[silverwhisper]

courtesy of another of my online haunts...

short version: a lawyer in prime minister stephen harper's conservative party government asserts same sex marriages have been nullified if the couple's marriage was not legal in their country of origin. long version .

commentary: although given the more sensationalistic headline canadia nullifies same-sex marriage, this isn't actually quite correct, as a careful reading of the article will reveal. still, it's pretty fucking obnoxious.

ed

 

[SailorJerry]

courtesy of another of my online haunts...

short version: a lawyer in prime minister stephen harper's conservative party government asserts same sex marriages have been nullified if the couple's marriage was not legal in their country of origin. long version .

commentary: although given the more sensationalistic headline canadia nullifies same-sex marriage, this isn't actually quite correct, as a careful reading of the article will reveal. still, it's pretty fucking obnoxious.

ed

So, a country that says, "We accept same sex marriage, but we can't make your own government accept our stance on the issue," is obnoxious ?

Or did I misunderstand your last sentence ?

(my male neighbours are 'gay-married', and I'm having a beer with them in about an hour. I'll ask them what they think and report back.)

 

[silverwhisper]

i think you misunderstood. or perhaps i misunderstood you.

canada had no problems performing gay marriages for non-citizens and recognizing those marriages as valid up until this incident. this has been the case for several years now.

this about-face, with no warning, is what i would absolutely characterize as being obnoxious.

ed

 

[SailorJerry]

So, a few things to think about (This is my understanding, and I may not have all of these issues quite correct - feel free to correct me):

1) Please don't generalize and use the broader term 'Canada' in this matter (I'll explain why),
2) Marriage is actually more of a Provincial matter. People get married under Provincial Legislation, not Federal Legislation (although all Canadian laws are Delegated from Crown, to Federal, to Provincial, to Municipal anyways). After 9 Provinces and Territories Legalized Same sex Marriage, the Feds stepped in and made it law for all of Canada.
3) Divorce is actually a Federal matter, and Federal Divorce Law was never amended to include Same Sex Marriage.
{People get married Provincially, and divorced Federally,}
4) Prime Minister Harper and the Conservatives seem to be against Gay Marriage, but the populous seem to support it (my opinion, not necessarily a fact)
5) Our Constitution does not allow discrimination, and allows Gay Marriage.
6) Newspaper like to sell papers, and therefore sensationalize things.

(So it's not really fair to say 'Canada', when there's different opinions and representation from the People, Provincial Gov't, Federal gov't, a specific Political Party currently in power, and the Media)

And a few further comments:

- The recent Harper Gov't discussion (and continued stance) on this matter is not constitutional, and any efforts to prevent or overrule existing Same Sex Marriage and divorce will be overturned in our courts, based on previous case law. (I believe this to be a fact, not just my opinion).

- While Same-sex marriages are legal in Canada, we do not have the military prowess (hehe) to make other countries accept these marriages within their own countries.

- I support same sex marriage, as long as I personally don't have to suck a dick. I have no business sticking my nose into anyone else's bedroom as long as they aren't hurting anyone, and I believe that the majority of Canadians agree with me on that one.

- Even if we assume that the papers are correct, I think that being the first nation in the Americas, and the Fourth Nation in the world to accept Same-sex marriage excuses any minor hic-cups along the way.

Cheers !
and happy Same-sex sex, er, I mean marriage !

SJ

 

[albertaboy]

It sounds more to me like a lawyer in the in the Justice Department did this.

First Harper was visibly surprised at the Halifax Ship building announcement when reporters brought it up. If he was behind it he would have said nothing, he certainly wouldn't have said he was unaware, he's far too wary to do that.

The Minister said almost immediately that the Govt hadn't even discussed it and announced they would examine and clarify the law so it would be legal.

I think they are way too smart to take the dumb an end run around the Gay marriage law. The press and other parties have been trying to get Harper and his so called "hidden agenda:" exposed since before he came into power, why encourage this when it would do nothing about the thousands of Gay marriages of Canadians who live here. The issue brought raised by the Dept of Justice lawyer is people who never lived here but got married here can't get divorced here, not that Gay marriage was legal, the law as raised would also apply to heterosexual couple who got married here, but never lived here.

 

[SailorJerry]

yes, I missed that point, thanks. Non-residents cannot get divorced in Canada. Gay or straight.

I think the media has twisted the issue somewhat.

 

[Etoile]

What I dislike here is the retroactive part. It's cool if you don't want to marry non-residents, Massachusetts has had a residency requirement for years, which is part of why I got married in Connecticut. But don't say "oh you are now married!" and then be like "yeah...well...no not really."

 

[SailorJerry]

What I dislike here is the retroactive part. It's cool if you don't want to marry non-residents, Massachusetts has had a residency requirement for years, which is part of why I got married in Connecticut. But don't say "oh you are now married!" and then be like "yeah...well...no not really."

Well that's not what our legal system says anyways.
AND as of this AM our Federal Government is moving to change the Divorce Legislation to allow same-sex divorce.

I think the Canadian Government has been very progressive on this issue. And the media is misrepresenting what is really going on.

cheers !

 

[Wolfman1982]

All same-sex marriages declared legal and valid by justice minister Rob Nicholson

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/0...-and-valid-by-justice-minister-rob-nicholson/

Postmedia News Jan 13, 2012 – 1:34 PM ET | Last Updated: Jan 13, 2012 5:26 PM ET

By Thandi Fletcher

OTTAWA — The Harper government will change the law to legally recognize the marriages of thousands of foreign gay couples, even if the laws of their home country do not.

The legislative change will apply to all marriages performed in Canada regardless of the laws of the jurisdiction in which the couple live, Justice Minister Rob Nicholson announced Friday.

“I want to make it very clear that, in our government’s view, these marriages should be valid,” Nicholson said at a news conference in Toronto. “We will change the Civil Marriage Act so that any marriages performed in Canada that aren’t recognized in the couple’s home jurisdiction will be recognized in Canada.”

The justice minister put the blame of the recent confusion surrounding the issue on the shoulders of the federal Liberals, the party in power when same-sex marriage was legalized in Canada.

“This is a legislative gap left by the Liberal government of the day when the law was changed in 2005,” said Nicholson. “The confusion and pain resulting from this gap is completely unfair to those who are affected.”

Nicholson’s statement came in the wake of a political firestorm that broke out Thursday after international headlines suggested the Canadian government doesn’t legally recognize the marriages of foreign same-sex couples who were married in Canada because they could not legally do so in their home state or country.

The controversy was sparked by a Toronto court case involving a foreign lesbian couple, who wed in Toronto in 2005 and now seek a divorce.

A federal lawyer contended the couple cannot divorce in Canada under this country’s laws since the two were never really married here.

Their marriage is not recognized in Canada if it is not recognized in their home jurisdictions — in this case, Florida and England, the lawyer said.

However, under the current law, marriages of non-Canadian residents performed in Canada cannot be dissolved in Canada.

Under the Divorce Act, there is a residency requirement that a couple must live in the country for at least one year in order to divorce here.

The government will not be looking at changes to the Divorce Act, as that legislation is much more complicated, a senior government official told Postmedia News earlier on Friday.

Instead, the official said the government would explore other options of dissolving marriages for same-sex couples that do not live in Canada.

On Friday, Nicholson repeated what he and Prime Minister Stephen Harper made clear on Thursday, that the issue of same-sex marriage is not on the Conservative government’s agenda.

“We have been clear that we have no desire to reopen this issue”be said. “Both myself and the Prime Minister consider this debate to be closed,” said Nicholson.

Harper said Thursday that he said he didn’t know much about the case, but said that his government “has no intention of further opening or reopening this issue.”