Illegitimacy rate continues to increase, not a political concern?

renard_ruse

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We hear often these days that family values or moral values or whatever you wish to call it is no longer a legitimate political or social issue to be concerned about. Its only a matter of "freedom" and "individual rights" and there is absolutely no public interest in things such as the number of children growing up in broken homes or being born illegitimately (or as the government now so politically correctly refers to it "non-maritally"). It just doesn't matter one iota at all to society.

Regarding for example, the illegitimately rate, the media and many others argue that there should not even be any benign policies to encourage people to marry before having kids or try to work out their problems and stay together for the good of the kids. However, just 15 years ago President Clinton and many Democrats viewed it as a public concern and spoke on the issue. Today, however, neither party dares to mention it and according to the media a large angry "vast majority" of Americans do not want it discussed or mentioned as a problem in any way (whether that's really true is open to debate but that's what we're told).

Well, so, it is really no longer a social problem? The facts are that children from out of wedlock homes are far more likely to live in poverty. They are far more likely to drop out of school. They are far more likely to end up in prison. Of course, not all, and not even a majority of them but the statistical disparity is undeniable.

According to the National Center for Health Statistics of the US Dept of HHS, 41% of all children born in 2008 were born "non-maritally" up from 33% just eight years earlier (2000) and up from 18% in 1980 and a mere 10% in 1970. The rates keep going up and up, and among blacks a whopping 72% are born '"non-maritally" while among Hispanics, sometimes thought of as a more socially conservative demographic, the rate is now over half (52%). These latter two groups coincidently have higher social problems such as poverty, incarceration rates, school dropout rates, etc. One could argue its a chicken and egg situation (poverty breeds "non-marital" childbearing), but the rate among whites is staggering as well, now having passed the 40% barrier in 2008 and continues to rise.

So, is it really "not a public concern" that is only an "obsession" from "right wing social and religious fanatics" who wish only to "take freedom away" from others just to be mean and rotten or is it a real and growing social problem? I would suggest its the latter.
 
Interesting that you never find Asians in these sorts of negative demographics.

Why do you think that is?
 
He doesnt have a solution... it's easier to cluck one's tongue then to actually do something about it
 
I wonder what the statics would be if you counted "People who have children out of wedlock" verses the children themselves...
 
Interesting that you never find Asians in these sorts of negative demographics.

Why do you think that is?

not enough women to
have sex with?


You know I just read a study out of China that
had rather staggering statics about how uninterested the
Chinese youth are in sex, relationships and marriage....
 
"Illegitimacy rate continues to increase, not a political concern?"

il·le·git·i·mate/ˌiləˈjitəmit/
Adjective:
Not authorized by the law; not in accordance with accepted standards or rules: "an illegitimate exercise of power by the military".


I reject your notion of what is legitimate and illegitimate in this context. Take your Judeo-Christian ethic and peddle it elsewhere.

... and the horse you rode in on.
 
not enough women to
have sex with?


You know I just read a study out of China that
had rather staggering statics about how uninterested the
Chinese youth are in sex, relationships and marriage....

Asian cultures (not just Chinese) don't accept the notion of children without marriage.

There is much more parental control in all aspects of life. This influence continues into adulthood.

My current (second) wife is Chinese and she is much more engaged with our two children than my ex (Western) was with my first two kids. The difference between their parenting effort is night and day. I witness it with other Chinese mothers too.

You do point out a problem. In Asian cultures, a boy is desired rather than a girl in order to continue the family lineage. In a one-child system more boys are born creating a natural shortage of potential brides. It is already a problem in China. There are X number of guys who simply won't be able to find a female partner. That worries me.
 
Asian cultures (not just Chinese) don't accept the notion of children without marriage.

There is much more parental control in all aspects of life. This influence continues into adulthood.

My current (second) wife is Chinese and she is much more engaged with our two children than my ex (Western) was with my first two kids. The difference between their parenting effort is night and day. I witness it with other Chinese mothers too.

You do point out a problem. In Asian cultures, a boy is desired rather than a girl in order to continue the family lineage. In a one-child system more boys are born creating a natural shortage of potential brides. It is already a problem in China. There are X number of guys who simply won't be able to find a female partner. That worries me.

Im sorry, I was wrong the study was Japan

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...young-Japanese-men-not-interested-in-sex.html

"Obviously, the most important reason for Japan's declining birth rate is that people are not having sex,"
 
Asian cultures (not just Chinese) don't accept the notion of children without marriage.

There is much more parental control in all aspects of life. This influence continues into adulthood.

My current (second) wife is Chinese and she is much more engaged with our two children than my ex (Western) was with my first two kids. The difference between their parenting effort is night and day. I witness it with other Chinese mothers too.

You do point out a problem. In Asian cultures, a boy is desired rather than a girl in order to continue the family lineage. In a one-child system more boys are born creating a natural shortage of potential brides. It is already a problem in China. There are X number of guys who simply won't be able to find a female partner. That worries me.

That reminds me of some research I heard about years ago that was correlating an increase in violence in countries that had a significantly higher number of males than females because of the traditional desire for male offspring. I remember one of the hypotheses had to do with a lack of potential mates and therefore a more unstable social structure. It was pretty interesting stuff, but I never saw anything else about research in that area (well and I graduated so I was no longer forced to read research articles, I could spend my time on my important things like novels and erotica:rolleyes:).
 
That reminds me of some research I heard about years ago that was correlating an increase in violence in countries that had a significantly higher number of males than females because of the traditional desire for male offspring. I remember one of the hypotheses had to do with a lack of potential mates and therefore a more unstable social structure. It was pretty interesting stuff, but I never saw anything else about research in that area (well and I graduated so I was no longer forced to read research articles, I could spend my time on my important things like novels and erotica:rolleyes:).

I saw something about that as well...
I believe it was someone discussing their theory about a
war with China, because the lack of women has been shown
through history to correlate with a more violent culture...

I saw it in passing so...
cant say if they had any real facts to back it up..
 
We hear often these days that family values or moral values or whatever you wish to call it is no longer a legitimate political or social issue to be concerned about. Its only a matter of "freedom" and "individual rights" and there is absolutely no public interest in things such as the number of children growing up in broken homes or being born illegitimately (or as the government now so politically correctly refers to it "non-maritally"). It just doesn't matter one iota at all to society.

Regarding for example, the illegitimately rate, the media and many others argue that there should not even be any benign policies to encourage people to marry before having kids or try to work out their problems and stay together for the good of the kids. However, just 15 years ago President Clinton and many Democrats viewed it as a public concern and spoke on the issue. Today, however, neither party dares to mention it and according to the media a large angry "vast majority" of Americans do not want it discussed or mentioned as a problem in any way (whether that's really true is open to debate but that's what we're told).

Well, so, it is really no longer a social problem? The facts are that children from out of wedlock homes are far more likely to live in poverty. They are far more likely to drop out of school. They are far more likely to end up in prison. Of course, not all, and not even a majority of them but the statistical disparity is undeniable.

According to the National Center for Health Statistics of the US Dept of HHS, 41% of all children born in 2008 were born "non-maritally" up from 33% just eight years earlier (2000) and up from 18% in 1980 and a mere 10% in 1970. The rates keep going up and up, and among blacks a whopping 72% are born '"non-maritally" while among Hispanics, sometimes thought of as a more socially conservative demographic, the rate is now over half (52%). These latter two groups coincidently have higher social problems such as poverty, incarceration rates, school dropout rates, etc. One could argue its a chicken and egg situation (poverty breeds "non-marital" childbearing), but the rate among whites is staggering as well, now having passed the 40% barrier in 2008 and continues to rise.

So, is it really "not a public concern" that is only an "obsession" from "right wing social and religious fanatics" who wish only to "take freedom away" from others just to be mean and rotten or is it a real and growing social problem? I would suggest its the latter.


I guess I'm just not seeing the issue. As someone who will begin his political climate with the next election, this really doesn't seem like a political concern for me- it seems more like a moral concern that is, at it's core, very personal.

If you want your children raised in a two-parent household, then that's your business. If my mother wants to leave her man because he continuously puts her children in the hospital (the real reason my parents were divorced; it was my fault. ;) ) then that's her business. I'm just unsure where the government comes into the equation at all. It really should be about what's best for the child, not keeping some phoney relationship together or putting them in a situation, like a bad marriage, where they will be emotionally or physically abused. There has been a wealthy of information on the subject, but all of it psychological and medical, none of it that I have read was politicized. However, I wasn't aware that there was a political element, so I wasn't really looking for it.

If you could explain the connection I'm missing I might be of more help...
 
Asian cultures (not just Chinese) don't accept the notion of children without marriage.

There is much more parental control in all aspects of life. This influence continues into adulthood.

My current (second) wife is Chinese and she is much more engaged with our two children than my ex (Western) was with my first two kids. The difference between their parenting effort is night and day. I witness it with other Chinese mothers too.

You do point out a problem. In Asian cultures, a boy is desired rather than a girl in order to continue the family lineage. In a one-child system more boys are born creating a natural shortage of potential brides. It is already a problem in China. There are X number of guys who simply won't be able to find a female partner. That worries me.


In a thread that is essentially about morality, that passage made me laugh. Using your two sets of kids, with two different women, doesn't really make your point very well.
 
Bastards erode the middle class and increase the proletariat class.
 
We hear often these days that family values or moral values or whatever you wish to call it is no longer a legitimate political or social issue to be concerned about. Its only a matter of "freedom" and "individual rights" and there is absolutely no public interest in things such as the number of children growing up in broken homes or being born illegitimately (or as the government now so politically correctly refers to it "non-maritally"). It just doesn't matter one iota at all to society.

Regarding for example, the illegitimately rate, the media and many others argue that there should not even be any benign policies to encourage people to marry before having kids or try to work out their problems and stay together for the good of the kids. However, just 15 years ago President Clinton and many Democrats viewed it as a public concern and spoke on the issue. Today, however, neither party dares to mention it and according to the media a large angry "vast majority" of Americans do not want it discussed or mentioned as a problem in any way (whether that's really true is open to debate but that's what we're told).

Well, so, it is really no longer a social problem? The facts are that children from out of wedlock homes are far more likely to live in poverty. They are far more likely to drop out of school. They are far more likely to end up in prison. Of course, not all, and not even a majority of them but the statistical disparity is undeniable.

According to the National Center for Health Statistics of the US Dept of HHS, 41% of all children born in 2008 were born "non-maritally" up from 33% just eight years earlier (2000) and up from 18% in 1980 and a mere 10% in 1970. The rates keep going up and up, and among blacks a whopping 72% are born '"non-maritally" while among Hispanics, sometimes thought of as a more socially conservative demographic, the rate is now over half (52%). These latter two groups coincidently have higher social problems such as poverty, incarceration rates, school dropout rates, etc. One could argue its a chicken and egg situation (poverty breeds "non-marital" childbearing), but the rate among whites is staggering as well, now having passed the 40% barrier in 2008 and continues to rise.

So, is it really "not a public concern" that is only an "obsession" from "right wing social and religious fanatics" who wish only to "take freedom away" from others just to be mean and rotten or is it a real and growing social problem? I would suggest its the latter.

How did I know that this post was going to mention race in it?
:rolleyes:
 
Because planned Parenthood was created to keep the Negro population down?



Magic H8 Ball™ sez Try Again Later.
 
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