What happened to all of the doom and gloom economic threads?

[busybody..]

http://weaselzippers.us/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Screen-shot-2012-01-05-at-9.07.43-AM-500x221.png



Kodak Preparing For Bankruptcy While CEO Sits On Obama’s Jobs Council…


From the White House website:




(WSJ) — Eastman Kodak Co. is preparing to seek bankruptcy protection in the coming weeks, people familiar with the matter said, a move that would cap a stunning comedown for a company that once ranked among America’s corporate titans.

The 131-year-old company is still making last-ditch efforts to sell off some of its patent portfolio and could avoid Chapter 11 if it succeeds, one of the people said. But the company has started making preparations for a filing in case those efforts fail, including talking to banks about some $1 billion in financing to keep it afloat during bankruptcy proceedings, the people said.

A filing could come as soon as this month or early February, one of the people familiar with the matter said. Kodak would continue to pay its bills and operate normally while under bankruptcy protection, the people said. But the company’s focus would then be the sale of some 1,100 patents through a court-supervised auction, the people said.

 

[unregistered]

 

[patrick1]

It's all based on the same fallacies the Keynes regurgitated almost wholesale the school of inflationary economics. The problem being, and as pointed out, that once engaged, the government never wants to pul back because it simply produces what they tried to avoid in the first place, bear markets and corrections.

What Krugman is trying to do is to say, we've gotten smarter when it comes to such Socialist policies and if you listen to me, then this time they will work.

They've been trying to make them work since the mid- to late-19th Century to know avail, not even their attempts at a safer, controlled Capitalism.

Keynesian and neo-Keynesian policies are nothing to do with socialism at all, they're attempts to manage capitalism so that it provides full or fuller employment. There is plenty of evidence that they sometimes work. I'm afraid I don't know what the rest of what you're saying means.

Patrick

 

[koalabear]

Forget rosy jobs data: Layoffs persist
Pepsi and Boeing announce big cuts and take the air out of positive payroll news.

Wall Street received news Thursday of positive jobs numbers in a private-sector payroll report from ADP. Specifically, jobs increased 325,000 in December, led by the service sector and small businesses. Additionally, November's employment numbers were revised slightly higher.

http://money.msn.com/top-stocks/post.aspx?post=a02b6a57-968d-4d66-b97c-4974e00bfc02

 

[koalabear]

and........

Stocks slip on EU debt worries

http://data.moneycentral.msn.com/scripts/chrtsrv.dll?symbol=%24US%3AINDU&width=298&height=160&c1=3&ce=0&cf=0&d2=0&d3=0&d4=1&d5=0&e8=1&legend=0&banner=5&af=2&palette=2

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

No. The Middle Class never start nuthin, theyre genetically predisposed to be nice.

Are you serious?

The rich never revolt, they have no incentive and everything to lose.
The poor don't revolt, they are too busy scrambling.

Who does that leave?

Those with the means to have leisure and something to lose, usually upward mobility since the youth of the Middle Class in each generation seem to be raised in such a manner as to believe their excrement stinketh not...

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Keynesian and neo-Keynesian policies are nothing to do with socialism at all, they're attempts to manage capitalism so that it provides full or fuller employment. There is plenty of evidence that they sometimes work. I'm afraid I don't know what the rest of what you're saying means.

Patrick

No, Keynes took the argument of the Socialist of the Chair and, like Hayek and Rand, presented them in a manner acceptable to the masses.

An attempt to manage Capitalism is nothing more than an attempt at the Middle-Way. Both of the topics are covered ad nauseam by Mises.

There is only the evidence that you see (Bastiat) of the intervention of government working temporarily, but the Keyensians and Socialists never examine the long-term (unseen) consequences of their interferences.

What do Keynes, the Interventionalists and Socialist have in common?

They love to manipulate interest rates and the money supply. They are eager to lower and expand them respectively, but as the article points out, good times, bad times (you know I've had my share), they never ever see the possibility of increasing and shrinking because, only partially, of the economic pain it causes for the general population, but mainly because of the political pain it causes them personally.



Cute way to end your reasoned and polite "discussion," with an ad hominem. You keep insisting that you are above all that, being European and all...

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

From another thread:

Here is whats going to happen...

Gasoline prices over $4.00 a gallon

Consumer spending down at least 10%

Re correction the markets down after volatile swings

Real unemployment at 30%

Government shutdown of services

Further decline in housing second wave of foreclosures

Big drop in commercial RE

Student loan default crisis

food prices up 20% especially staples

States default debt

European market meltdown on Greece default

Military crackdown in China

Middle east crisis and revolts continue

It will be the beginning of a huge drop to follow in US and world economy and most likely by 2013 we will see a world currency emerge and the dollar will be worthless

The GDP to Dept ration is at 100.4%.

The amount of GDP government needs to consume to just keep going more slowly into debt is staggering, heading towards 25%.

The President is more concerned with a strategy of picking fights in order to win reelection:

I can't get anything done! I can't fix the economy! The Republicans are obstructing me!
(Keep in mind, this is at the same time that the Left on the board is over in U_D's Doom and Gloom thread celebrating Obama's economic recovery and great save
[ A_J's corollary #3, “The New Age Liberal maintains contradictory positions comfortably compartmentalized. (This is because the New Age Liberal is a creature that believes in consensus as a short-cut to an examination of the facts and a reasoned judgment about said facts. Corollary #2.)” ])
∴ Therefore, I am going to act outside of the law and rule by decree, "We Can't Wait!"
Those angry, mean, hateful white racist Republican tools of big business are fighting against America just because they hate me! They want America to fail so they can WIN!
I can't get anything done! I can't fix the economy! The Republicans are obstructing me...

And the press that got him elected and has vested in him and his historical Presidency are going to do everything they can to get him reelected, they are going to act like the 2010 election never happened and they are going to operate a Shermanesque slash and burn campaign to keep their party and their President in power.

What's not to like about all that going into 2012?

If you hand the White House and the Congress to the Democrats, this is what they will do:


http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-...ending-increase-paid-for-by-higher-taxes.html

* Substitute USA for California...

Note, even as we converse, the Democrats are exercising what they deem as fiscal responsibility to carve into the debt. They are slashing to the bone one of the programs that don't work, our armed forces. After all, nobody, but nobody is going to attack California.*

* Substitute USA for California...

 

[Ulaven_Demorte]

From another thread:

*response to cross post from another thread*

Oh my Gods we're doomed! DOOMED!

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

*response to cross post from another thread*

Oh my Gods we're doomed! DOOMED!

Wow.

Simply wow!

Given the chance to praise the Obama economy or engage in ad hominem, U_D always goes with #2...



I guess that's what Throb is always referring to as "Adult Conversation," the art of scat.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

It's from a DOOM and GLOOM thread!

The kind you're demanding to see.



You may now return to your Scat-a-tautology...

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Are you serious?

The rich never revolt, they have no incentive and everything to lose.
The poor don't revolt, they are too busy scrambling.

Who does that leave?

Those with the means to have leisure and something to lose, usually upward mobility since the youth of the Middle Class in each generation seem to be raised in such a manner as to believe their excrement stinketh not...

I refer you to the Founders. Wuznt a peasant or shopkeeper in the whole crew.

 

[Ulaven_Demorte]

Wow.

Simply wow!

Given the chance to praise the Obama economy or engage in ad hominem, U_D always goes with #2...



I guess that's what Throb is always referring to as "Adult Conversation," the art of scat.

You cross posted a bunch of bullshit (a good 80% of which is just pure fearmongering, not gonna happen, tripe) from another thread and expect anything but to be laughed at?

Poor Cap'n Hypocrite, you never seem to mind a heaping pile of Ad Hominem when it comes from someone you agree with.. or from your own hands.

You want someone to speak to you as if you're a rational human being, display that you are one. Until then, you're right there with Le Jackass. Someone to poke fun at who almost none take seriously.

 

[koalabear]

Stocks fall despite strong December jobs report

The US economy adds more jobs than expected, while the unemployment rate falls to 8.5%. Investors eye upcoming bond auctions in Italy and Spain. Gold and oil waver.


Adding jobs at Christmas time, who would have thought.

http://data.moneycentral.msn.com/scripts/chrtsrv.dll?symbol=%24US%3AINDU&width=298&height=160&c1=3&ce=0&cf=0&d2=0&d3=0&d4=1&d5=0&e8=1&legend=0&banner=5&af=2&palette=2

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

200,000!

Wow!

I wonder what an actual economist would have to say about that.

I'm sorry, but this will be a bit partisan:

If you ask me, I think what we're experiencing isn't in fact closer to a "growthless" recovery than to a jobless one. Because GDP started to grow more than a year and a half ago, but with the exception of just a couple of quarters, growth has not been noticeably above its trend rate of about 2-1/2 percent a year. I don't rejoice at the news that we added 216,000 jobs in March. About a hundred thousand of that 216,000 is needed every month just to keep up with the growth in the labor force. At this rate of job growth, it would take most of the decade to replace the eight 8-1/2 million jobs that were lost in the recession.
Christina Romer
Chairwoman of Obama's White House Council of Economic Advisors

Lets hope FedEx and UPS keep hiring!

For Obama's sake...

We'd hate to see them added to the list if they layoff anyone.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

I refer you to the Founders. Wuznt a peasant or shopkeeper in the whole crew.

Yes there were.

Look again...



And that was not the revolution being discussed, for the most part, we're talking about internal revolutions, like France, Russia, Egypt...,

 

[mercury14]

325,000 private sector jobs added last month, including heavy hiring in sectors that are not influenced by the season (mining, healthcare, heavy manufacturing).

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/dail...economic-news-better-political-145930763.html

Thirty seconds until AJ and Vette arrive to tell us that this is actually bad news for the economy.

 

[garbage can]

325,000 private sector jobs added last month, including heavy hiring in sectors that are not influenced by the season (mining, healthcare, heavy manufacturing).

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/dail...economic-news-better-political-145930763.html

Thirty seconds until AJ and Vette arrive to tell us that this is actually bad news for the economy.

Merc, I see you're still clinging to this loser we have in the white house.

When will you see the light?

If you're in the non military public sector, you will probably do well.
If your in the military, watch to have your nuts cut off...

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Did you read your link?

The headline number, a gain in 200,000 payroll jobs, is the kind of figure common in robust recoveries but that has been quite rare in the past few years. December represented the 15th straight month of job gains. While the U.S. has a long way to claw back all the jobs that were lost in the recession that began in 2008, jobs are coming back. Since February 2010, the economy has added 2.654 million jobs, and it has added 1.64 million jobs since December 2010. December's figure represents the highest number of payroll jobs in the U.S. since March 2009.
The gains were spread through a variety of sectors. Transportation and warehousing industries saw gains of 50,000, driven in part by seasonal hiring—a line that should likely be taken with a few grains of salt. Retail added 28,000 positions — solid, but not spectacular. More significant were the additions in manufacturing (23,000), after a few months of relative idling, mining (7,000 jobs), health care (23,000). A few words of caution: employment in the large professional and business services sector barely budged in December. The average work week, and average hourly earnings both rose marginally. Taken together, the payroll reports shows an economy in which more people were working, for more hours, and at slightly higher wages in December 2011 than they were in November, and in December 2010. This dynamic helps support the creation of a virtuous circle: more workers earning more wages spend more money and do a better job keeping up with debts, which leads to more demand and more production, which in turn leads to more production.

The danger is that in January, consumers will start worrying about the debt they just went out and accrued.

Two years ago we were told that, as political cover, that when the economy began to rebound and workers rushed back into the workforce, that unemployment would go up as would gas prices.

But right now, the unemployment rate is going down and the price of oil is only going up because of Iran.

I just quoted a non-partisan source, well okay a little partisan, maybe you missed it...

If you ask me, I think what we're experiencing isn't in fact closer to a "growthless" recovery than to a jobless one. Because GDP started to grow more than a year and a half ago, but with the exception of just a couple of quarters, growth has not been noticeably above its trend rate of about 2-1/2 percent a year. I don't rejoice at the news that we added 216,000 jobs in March. About a hundred thousand of that 216,000 is needed every month just to keep up with the growth in the labor force. At this rate of job growth, it would take most of the decade to replace the eight 8-1/2 million jobs that were lost in the recession.
Christina Romer
Chairwoman of Obama's White House Council of Economic Advisors

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Merc, I see you're still clinging to this loser we have in the white house.

When will you see the light?

If you're in the non military public sector, you will probably do well.
If your in the military, watch to have your nuts cut off...

He loves Obama.

You can't fault him for that.

The whole world fucking loves the guy...

 

[RobDownSouth]

*response to cross post from another thread*

Oh my Gods we're doomed! DOOMED!

From what he's shown us here, AJ seems to be a very fearful person. I pity his family.

 

[koalabear]

325,000 private sector jobs added last month, including heavy hiring in sectors that are not influenced by the season (mining, healthcare, heavy manufacturing).

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/dail...economic-news-better-political-145930763.html

Thirty seconds until AJ and Vette arrive to tell us that this is actually bad news for the economy.

Read your own link MORON. *insert many UD rolleyes*

Expectations had been for Friday morning's December jobs release, thanks to the ADP report on Thursday that suggested the private sector created 325,000 jobs in the month. The ADP report tends to be somewhat exuberant in December, and doesn't account for the public sector, which has reliably been hacking jobs.

 

[RobDownSouth]

Read your own link MORON. *insert many UD rolleyes*

Expectations had been for Friday morning's December jobs release, thanks to the ADP report on Thursday that suggested the private sector created 325,000 jobs in the month. The ADP report tends to be somewhat exuberant in December, and doesn't account for the public sector, which has reliably been hacking jobs.

Good ole reliable beta male Koalabear, he can find a dark cloud in front of ANY silver lining!

Doooooooom!
Gloooooooooooooom!

 

[mercury14]

Good ole reliable beta male Koalabear, he can find a dark cloud in front of ANY silver lining!

Doooooooom!
Gloooooooooooooom!

Gotta love how the chuckleheads fervently seek cuts in government sector jobs. But as soon as that happens they get their panties in a bunch, pointing out that Obama should be blamed for these people losing their jobs.

 

[mercury14]

Merc, I see you're still clinging to this loser we have in the white house.

When will you see the light?

If you're in the non military public sector, you will probably do well.
If your in the military, watch to have your nuts cut off...

Yes I think for the most part his decisions are for the better and that he's a better pres than the GOP pretenders would be.

I have a private sector job that contracts with the USAF and I'm USAF Reserve. Neither of these things will be impacted by the changes Obama is making.