Take a tour of the richest village in Communist China...

[eyer]

...Huaxi.

Free luxury car for each adult; free luxury home, 100% free health care and education...

...even free cooking oil!

All provided by the village Committee...

...there are a few stipulations but, hey, nothing's really free, right?


Huaxi: Secrets of China's richest village

 

[shoulderblade]

That was pretty amazing. A little annoying though that they kept refering to it as a "villiage". Nice to see people do well even if the cost looks ridiculous to us.

 

[firenzi]

China is one of the most capitalist nations on earth.

 

[ChinaBandit]

China is one of the most capitalist nations on earth.

BINGO

 

[eyer]

China is one of the most capitalist nations on earth.

BINGO

Perhaps you both could expound on the "capitalism" you see being practiced in the richest village in Communist China?

 

[firenzi]

That "village" is wholly and privately owned by a billionaire corporate mogul, and is nothing more than a private, planned community for the employees at his various privately owned factories and privately owned businesses. He gives them a house and a car and daily living items and gives them some stock in his companies- in exchange they are likely working like dogs for very long hours 7 days a week, and if they get fired (no such thing as worker protection laws in China) they're not only out of a job but instantly homeless with nothing to their name- no doubt they lose their stock options, too.

There's nothing communist about that. There's really nothing communist about China, period. Anyone who worships pure capitalism as the be all and end all should spend some serious time in China or Russia and see for themselves how wonderful it really is.

 

[ChinaBandit]

China (PRC) has approximately 535,000 millionaires which places the country 4th, behind only the US, Japan and Germany. That is capitalistic company even if you try and use a "population number arguement."

This figure does NOT include the 100,000+ millionaires in Hong Kong.

www.china.org.cn/business/2011-10/13/content_23617783.htm

Would you be interested in comparing India, a parlimentarian democracy, with a similar sized population?

In terms of billionaires, China ranks 2nd only to the US.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_the_number_of_US_dollar_billionaires

 

[eyer]

Neither of you actually have any practical idea of exactly what capitalism is, do you?

 

[off2bed]

Be seeing you.

 

[ChinaBandit]

Neither of you actually have any practical idea of exactly what capitalism is, do you?

In practical terms, it's the opportunity for private ownership over the production of goods or services for profit and the unlimited accumulation of capital by the same. Competitive markets exist and ownership competes for the voluntary exchange of capital and the rising wage labor to support production. All such conditions exists in the PRC and have since Deng Xiaoping began the move away from state owned enterprises in the late 1980's. Without such conditions it would be impossible for the wealth generation required to make so many Chinese millionaires or produce it's expanding middle class.

I think my definition is consistent with Adam Smith forward. It conflicts with Marxism which is an economic system NOT in place in the PRC today. Communism isn't an economic system but rather a political one.

Unfortunately, I'm not the one in the family best qualified to debate this. My wife has a PHD in Economics from the University of Chicago and a Masters in Public Administration from the University of Sydney. Selfishly, I'd love to see you two debate the possibilities of capitalistic forces in a socialist state such as China or Singapore. It's ashame she no longer wishes to post in Lit.

 

[firenzi]

In practical terms, it's the opportunity for private ownership over the production of goods or services for profit and the unlimited accumulation of capital by the same. Competitive markets exist and ownership competes for the voluntary exchange of capital and the rising wage labor to support production. All such conditions exists in the PRC and have since Deng Xiaoping began the move away from state owned enterprises in the late 1980's. Without such conditions it would be impossible for the wealth generation required to make so many Chinese millionaires or produce it's expanding middle class.

I think my definition is consistent with Adam Smith forward. It conflicts with Marxism which is an economic system NOT in place in the PRC today. Communism isn't an economic system but rather a political one.

Unfortunately, I'm not the one in the family best qualified to debate this. My wife has a PHD in Economics from the University of Chicago and a Masters in Public Administration from the University of Sydney. Selfishly, I'd love to see you two debate the possibilities of capitalistic forces in a socialist state such as China or Singapore. It's ashame she no longer wishes to post in Lit.

Shhhhhh. Reality will only confuse him.

 

[eyer]

I think my definition is consistent with Adam Smith forward. It conflicts with Marxism which is an economic system NOT in place in the PRC today. Communism isn't an economic system but rather a political one.

Then, you'd no doubt assert socialism "isn't an economic system but rather a political one", too, correct?

Also...

...could you elaborate on what role you feel the Communist Party of China, aka the Chinese Communist Party, plays in the economy of the country?

 

[Ham Murabi]

Perhaps you both could expound on the "capitalism" you see being practiced in the richest village in Communist China?

You can figure it out on your own.

 

[ChinaBandit]

Then, you'd no doubt assert socialism "isn't an economic system but rather a political one", too, correct?

Also...

...could you elaborate on what role you feel the Communist Party of China, aka the Chinese Communist Party, plays in the economy of the country?

No. I'm going to agree with my wife who believes "socialism" is a hybrid of economic, political and social theory and policy. It can't be classified solely as economic, political or social. It has characteristics that are unique to itself.

The Chinese government plays the same economic role as that of other governments around the world. In specific, they regulate, stimulate, tax and otherwise strive to manipulate policy for economic growth.
If you call it a 5 year plan or stimulis package, in reality it is all semantics.

As it impacts me, I would suggest the issue of greatest import is currency control. China is hardly unique in heavy handed control of the value of it's currency versus that of the US dollar. I prefer the status quo and don't wish to see a free floating Yuan as my compensation is generally calcualted in US dollars.

 

[eyer]

No. I'm going to agree with my wife who believes "socialism" is a hybrid of economic, political and social theory and policy. It can't be classified solely as economic, political or social. It has characteristics that are unique to itself.

But communism can be solely classified as political, as you did precisely above, right?

Does your wife know you're on an Internet porn board, using her as a reference, to reveal that the economist Marx's theory isn't economic at all...

...it's strictly political?

The Chinese government plays the same economic role as that of other governments around the world. In specific, they regulate, stimulate, tax and otherwise strive to manipulate policy for economic growth. If you call it a 5 year plan or stimulis package, in reality it is all semantics.

No...

...the Communist Party of China is the Chinese government.

And before you employ your "semantics" to "BINGO" that Communist China is one of the most capitalistic countries on earth, you must first deal with the implications of Marx's economic theory of communism...

...but you conveniently refuse to do that by absurdly proclaiming communism has nothing to do with economics at all.

As it impacts me, I would suggest the issue of greatest import is currency control. China is hardly unique in heavy handed control of the value of it's currency versus that of the US dollar. I prefer the status quo and don't wish to see a free floating Yuan as my compensation is generally calcualted in US dollars.

The Communist Party of China is certainly unique in how it heavily handles the economy of Communist China...

...since the Communist Party of China is the only party involved in the dictating of it.

But it's all relative to you...

...right?

 

[Frizzle_Fry]

There's nothing communist about that. There's really nothing communist about China, period. Anyone who worships pure capitalism as the be all and end all should spend some serious time in China or Russia and see for themselves how wonderful it really is.

You have the political and economic systems confused. While closely intertwined in every nation that has a pot to piss in, they are not entirely the same. Yes china has a capitalist economic system but politically and socially they are communist. The gov. decides how you will live your life...where you live...who you can fuck...what god you can or cannot worship...what media you are allowed to see etc. etc.

Guess what else the communist gov decides? Who gets to be a part of China's 1%...it's not allowed to happen naturally like it would be with a "free" capitalist society. By free I mean a college drop out writing a program called windows and becoming part of that 1% because he sold his idea and the world loved it. In china you write windows and the gov. sends a bureaucrat to come manage it and get rich off of it while you still scrub toilets...because that was your pre determined value to the greater good...pre determined by the communist gov.

 

[CandiCame]

Not a huge fan of China. The couple of people I know from there hate it.

 

[Frizzle_Fry]

Not a huge fan of China. The couple of people I know from there hate it.

But it is the great paradise of equality that communism promises!!

 

[eyer]

The degree to which any economic system can truthfully be labeled capitalist...

..equals the degree to which that economic system serves the individual as its prime beneficiary.

The degree to which any economic system can truthfully be labeled communist...

...equals the degree to which that economic system serves the state as its prime beneficiary.

 

[firenzi]

You have the political and economic systems confused. While closely intertwined in every nation that has a pot to piss in, they are not entirely the same. Yes china has a capitalist economic system but politically and socially they are communist. The gov. decides how you will live your life...where you live...who you can fuck...what god you can or cannot worship...what media you are allowed to see etc. etc.

Guess what else the communist gov decides? Who gets to be a part of China's 1%...it's not allowed to happen naturally like it would be with a "free" capitalist society. By free I mean a college drop out writing a program called windows and becoming part of that 1% because he sold his idea and the world loved it. In china you write windows and the gov. sends a bureaucrat to come manage it and get rich off of it while you still scrub toilets...because that was your pre determined value to the greater good...pre determined by the communist gov.

I agree with what you're saying, except that's not communism. It's totalitarianism. China is a totalitarian nation with an almost purely capitalist economy. Now I'm going to really generalize here, but it is my understanding that Chinese culture has NEVER had much concept of individualism- the importance of the individual has simply never been a part of the psyche, which in practical terms translates into little to no recognition or understanding of human rights as even a concept, or for areas like the field of psychology, and personal expression and creatively are not generally valued. In the modern era the powers that be in China have suppressed people under the banner of "communism"- the name of the banner may have changed, but not the suppression itself.

Predetermismism doesn't have anything to do with communism either- just look at the Hindu caste system or Protestant theology, especially the Calvinists and other religious settlers that got kicked out England and settled in the US.

ETA: btw, you know Bill Gates was born as part of the 1%, right?

 

[ChinaBandit]

US & China Lead in the sale of Bentley's

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16418608

Yes. I'm sure they are not all being bought by the Communist party.

 

[Frizzle_Fry]

I agree with what you're saying, except that's not communism. It's totalitarianism. China is a totalitarian nation with an almost purely capitalist economy. Now I'm going to really generalize here, but it is my understanding that Chinese culture has NEVER had much concept of individualism- the importance of the individual has simply never been a part of the psyche, which in practical terms translates into little to no recognition or understanding of human rights as even a concept, or for areas like the field of psychology, and personal expression and creatively are not generally valued. In the modern era the powers that be in China have suppressed people under the banner of "communism"- the name of the banner may have changed, but not the suppression itself.

Predetermismism doesn't have anything to do with communism either- just look at the Hindu caste system or Protestant theology, especially the Calvinists and other religious settlers that got kicked out England and settled in the US.

ETA: btw, you know Bill Gates was born as part of the 1%, right?

LMAO...really? So you are saying that communism is entirely an economic system and has nothing to do with a political philosophy...that's just amazing. Communism and totalitarianism run hand in hand...

The 10 essentials outlined by "The communist manifesto" (you really should go read it)

Abolition of Private Property.
Heavy Progressive Income Tax.
Abolition of Rights of Inheritance.
Confiscation of Property Rights.
Central Bank.
Government Ownership of Communication and Transportation.
Government Ownership of Factories and Agriculture.
Government Control of Labor.
Corporate Farms and Regional Planning.
Government Control of Education.

Glad China doesn't do any of those things and wouldn't you know the US is starting to fit that bill to a T.

And yes BG may have been born with a silver spoon in his mouth but he is who he is today because capitalism allows it.

 

[eyer]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16418608

Yes. I'm sure they are not all being bought by the Communist party.

That relativism cancer of yours has spread to the brain, obviously...

When you gonna address the pertinent fact that one country has incarcerated its Nobel Peace Prize winner...

...and the other has elected its President?

If Communist China is the capitalist economic titan that you lie about...

...why is Liu Xiaobo forbidden to participate in it by the Communist Chinese Party?

Only an imbecile and/or a statist (which is redundant, no doubt) would even come close to suggesting capitalism has nothing to do with individual liberty...

 

[eyer]

Life in 'Capitalist' Communist China Today...

China's vice president orders more thought control over students

Xi Jinping, the Chinese Vice-President, who is tipped to take over from President Hu Jintao later this year, has ordered universities to increase thought control over students and young lecturers.

"University Communist Party organs must adopt firmer and stronger measures to maintain harmony and stability in universities," Mr Xi said told Communist Party members at a meeting attended by the country's universities chiefs in Beijing.

"Daily management of the institutions should be stepped up to create a good atmosphere for the success of the Party's 18th congress," he added.

...In response to the myriad of threats, the government has issued national orders for officials to get a grip on ideology and push "socialist core values".
Mr Xi, the "princeling" son of Communist veteran Xi Zhongxun, also told university chiefs to closely monitor lecturers, especially those starting their academic careers.

"Young teachers have many interactions with students and cast significant [political and moral] influence on them," Mr Xi said.

"They also play a very important role in the spread of ideas," he added.
A paramount task for universities is to "instruct" the thoughts of young lecturers and recruit more of them as party members, Mr Xi said.

National newspapers were on Thursday also reporting instructions from senior leaders to intensify "propaganda work".

Li Changchun, a Standing Committee member of the Communist Party's Politburo, told propaganda officials to enhance "the ability of opinion guiding and international communication, and strive to create an objective and friendly international public opinion environment in favour of our country".

...continued @

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...rders-more-thought-control-over-students.html

Meanwhile, the cleansing of "entertainment" goes on...

China claims it has successfully curbed 'excessive entertainment' on TV

Dating and talent shows among targets after President Hu Jintao warned that western culture was out to attack China

Channels are now showing programmes that "promote traditional virtues and socialist core values", Xinhua news agency said.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jan/04/china-satellite-tv-channels-curbs-success

 

[ChinaBandit]

That relativism cancer of yours has spread to the brain, obviously...

When you gonna address the pertinent fact that one country has incarcerated its Nobel Peace Prize winner...

...and the other has elected its President?

If Communist China is the capitalist economic titan that you lie about...

...why is Liu Xiaobo forbidden to participate in it by the Communist Chinese Party?

Only an imbecile and/or a statist (which is redundant, no doubt) would even come close to suggesting capitalism has nothing to do with individual liberty...

Are you claiming that China isn't an economic titan, or that's it's just not a capitalistic one?

If not a capitalistic one, what is it?

Are you saying that you don't believe private enterprise exists in China?

I'm suggesting to you that in 5,000 plus years life has NEVER been better for the average Chinese; especially the 900,000,000 plus considered to be in the "peasant" class. Moreover, I am suggesting this is true from a social, political AND GREATLY economic perspective.

The problem with those in the Occident is that they falsely believe that "democracy" is universal. Worse, that it is somehow a requirement for individual happiness and fulfillment. It's based on a Greek ethos biased toward the individual. Oriental culture is based on the group. There is no word or character in Chinese for the individual...

The Chinese have never experienced democracy and otherwise have lived in an autocratic system from their very beginning. Despite this, they are very commercial (yes capitalistic) people. Moreover, the opportunity to engage in "private" business is making millions of Chinese happy and proud of their country. Did you somehow miss the Olympic games or do you think the enthusiasm and pride in the Chinese nation was not genuine?

I'm at my wits end debating the issue with an extreme libretarian such as yourself.

You don't have to like China, can slam it if you wish, but I urge people not to otherwise qualify it unless they have personally visited and seen for themselves.

I assure you what they are doing here economically is totally counter to "Das Kapital" and has no relation whatsoever with the Communist Manifesto that someone else posted about.

I can also tell you it's extremely difficult to become a member of the Communist Party. Somewhere in this thread recruitment was mentioned but not the qualifications required for membership. They do not accept any old Miss. Liu or Mr. Wang undergraduate.