Applying the rules? Where are the limits?

[Tim46]

As a matter of interest -- so far, I have no stories to post (although I do have several totally perverted ideas) -- I was wondering about the rules that apply.

Example: no underage sex. That's fine but different countries have different rules. In the UK, the legal minimum age is 16. In the Netherlands, it's 14 -- and for the moment in Spain, it's 13! I am a little uneasy about the Spanish minimum but that doesn't apply in the sort of situation I envisage.

What about a situation with a young man of, say, 15yrs 2 months having a thoroughly enjoyable encounter with a woman of 35? Suppose she was a biology teacher and was intimately examined by the boys -- sorry, young men -- in her class? Suppose the young man in question was actually her son? Suppose there was a brother of 15 or near and a sister of 18? Suppose....I'd better stop here before I need a cigarette!

The reason I'm asking is that it seems to me a story may break rules without actually break any laws while at the same time, you can have a story that breaks laws without breaking the rules of posting! Confused? Just slightly.

 

[sr71plt]

This is a private website. Their posting rules don't have to have any relationship to either law or what other websites do. If they decide they won't post anything mentioning the color "green," that's their right to do.

Also, to anticipate the next question/point, they publish so many stories every day of the year--to maximum the pleasure their readership--that they can't catch every breach of their rules. It doesn't mean that they have different rules for different folks--it means they are chugging along as best they can with very little help. There's a report button you can click on if you think a posted story has circumvented the site rules.

All of your "what ifs" are just so much needless wheels spinning in terms of posting to Literotica.

 

[PennLady]

It doesn't matter where your story is set, or what the age of consent (or whatever it may be called) is in that country. On this site, the rule is that no character involved in a sexual situation can be under 18. It doesn't matter the relation between the characters or anything else -- no one under 18.

That is not to say that you cannot have a statement like "He lost his virginity in high school," or something like that. You just cannot describe the situation in any detail. It's sometimes a close call, as others will attest, and sometimes writers get away with somewhat vague, nonspecific writing, but that is the rule.

 

[Feotakahari]

I was going to make a thread on this, but I guess I'll just ask my question here.

So, I know that if all my characters are adult humans and look like adult humans, I'm within the rules. Stories can get through where some characters are not adult humans or do not look like adult humans, so long as those characters never have sex (though I've gotten away with having two teenagers engage in activities that were somewhat sensual.) Multiple stories have gotten through where an animal is transformed into a human and has sex with a human, and one story has gotten through where a human has sex with an animal that is of human intelligence. Given this, would the site approve:

A story in which two children magically age to adults and have sex? I'm guessing no.

A story where an adult has sex with another adult who looks like a child? I'm guessing yes.

A story where an adult human transforms into an animal and has sex with an animal? Probably no, though I have seen a sexualized human-to-animal transformation that cuts off just before the sex.

Also, does story quality matter? The story I read in which an animal of human intelligence has sex with a human is one of the best stories I've ever seen on Literotica, so I think it may have been allowed when weaker stories wouldn't have.

 

[Darkniciad]

A story in which two children magically age to adults and have sex? I'm guessing no.

You would be guessing correctly. The thing that joins both of the rules you're questioning is consent -- or rather the ability to do so.

A story where an adult has sex with another adult who looks like a child? I'm guessing yes.

This one can be iffy. The more you play up the "looks like a child" and less you stress that they're both adults, the more likely you are to see a rejection. If a sex scene can be read out of context with the rest of the story and mistaken for underage sex, it may very well be rejected. Even age role-playing can fall victim to this, where neither participant looks young, but one is acting acting that way.

A story where an adult human transforms into an animal and has sex with an animal? Probably no, though I have seen a sexualized human-to-animal transformation that cuts off just before the sex.

No. Again, because a normal animal cannot give consent.

Also, does story quality matter? The story I read in which an animal of human intelligence has sex with a human is one of the best stories I've ever seen on Literotica, so I think it may have been allowed when weaker stories wouldn't have.

I wouldn't rule it out.

 

[ErosArtist]

There's no doubt the rules here can be quite confusing at times. I've not yet published anything here yet. Submissions will happen in the next few days.

The best, most reasonable policy is to have any and all characters which are depicted in sexual acts to be at least 18 years of age or older. All of my characters are, at the time the story takes place, of the United States adult legal age, adult legal age not to be confused with varying 'age of consent' policies in different locales. I am wholly supportive and in favor of such requirements.

However, my past questions have addressed the mere reference of being under the age of 18 as a Lit no-no, in situations of character recall, character dialogue, etc. The answers ranged from 'absolutely not' to 'submit and see what happens.' Examples of possible scenarios to which I'm referring are:

A couple hooking up in a bar simply mention children: "...I have a son. Six years old. He's a good kid." Clearly dialogue between two adult characters.

A now 23 year old male thinks to himself: "...I've had a thing for my buddy Josh's mom since I was 14." Clearly a character vocalization as thought.

A back story narrative of reads: "...she lost her virginity at 16. It was a horrible experience." Here, the narrative voice is telling the story without details of explicit sexual activity.

An overweight teen is taunted over their weight and appearance in memories of a locker room scene and specifically remembers the event as happening at the age of fifteen.

A now 25 year old character sits on a beach alone and muses to herself "...I loved coming here as a little girl..." Again, character vocalization as thought.

IMHO, these are not in violation of the under 18 rule. Are any of these examples a clear and specific violation of the under 18 rule? Would they be grounds for story rejection?

I apologize if this is a hijack of the thread. That's not my intent. I've tried to ask these questions in the past and was either flamed, ignored, or told simply to keep everyone over the age of 18. Of course, the latter is easiest, but I would appreciate some well reasoned and thought out replies.

Many thanks in advance -

 

[PennLady]

FWIW, I don't think any of the above examples violate the under-18 rule. You could, with stories that have these elements, put a note in the notes field when you submit that all characters involved in sexual situations are 18 and older. I believe putting something in the notes field means a person will look over the story, as opposed to just running it through whatever program they use.

 

[ErosArtist]

FWIW, I don't think any of the above examples violate the under-18 rule. You could, with stories that have these elements, put a note in the notes field when you submit that all characters involved in sexual situations are 18 and older. I believe putting something in the notes field means a person will look over the story, as opposed to just running it through whatever program they use.

Thank you - and I will put such a note in the notes field. Great suggestion.

 

[bernett69]

when did the underage rules begin, because I have certainly seen many in here with minors involved?

 

[PennLady]

when did the underage rules begin, because I have certainly seen many in here with minors involved?

You can have a minor in a story, they just can't be involved in a sexual situation. You can have a character say something like "I lost my virginity at sixteen," but that has to be it. No description. As sr71 noted, some stories do slip through the cracks, but they do seem pretty strict on that rule.

 

[LucyH]

A now 23 year old male thinks to himself: "...I've had a thing for my buddy Josh's mom since I was 14." Clearly a character vocalization as thought.

Definitely no problem, based on what I've had approved. My underage character even got to have some specific sexual fantasies. He just had to wait until he was older to do anything about them.

 

[Darkniciad]

Definitely no problem, based on what I've had approved. My underage character even got to have some specific sexual fantasies. He just had to wait until he was older to do anything about them.

You're lucky that one slipped through the cracks. Once you go beyond the dry, clinical reference, you're in the firing line for a rejection notice almost every time. A specific fantasy act is way over the bar of what usually gets kicked back to the author.

I agree that the quoted line will probably pass, though.

 

[ErosArtist]

Definitely no problem, based on what I've had approved. My underage character even got to have some specific sexual fantasies. He just had to wait until he was older to do anything about them.

You're lucky that one slipped through the cracks. Once you go beyond the dry, clinical reference, you're in the firing line for a rejection notice almost every time. A specific fantasy act is way over the bar of what usually gets kicked back to the author.

I agree that the quoted line will probably pass, though.

We shall see. I submitted two stories yesterday, both of which contain similar references to age.

On a side note, the responses in this thread have been the most clarifying since I first asked this question some time ago.

 

[ErosArtist]

Just a note to say my stories were approved - links are below to those interested. All constructive feedback is welcome. (I am going to post the links in the 'Story Feedback' thread as well.)

I added specific notes regarding ages of characters and also eliminated any number under 18 as it could relate to a person or persons from the manuscript.

Thanks again -

 

[Feotakahari]

I'd like to ask about another story I'm planning to post, in which a character meets the demonic echo (don't ask) of a girl he was in love with when they were both prepubescent. The flashbacks to that time contain no explicit material, but the girl is very precocious, having read a bunch of medieval-themed romance novels and mimicked the speech patterns of the princesses therein. The following is a direct quote from the rough draft, after he says that kissing her doesn't feel right:

“The knight always says that. He says it is wrong to be with the princess, and what would happen if the king knew, and she kisses him so he will stop talking. Then the books say lots of things about throbbing man-meat and quivering passages--my mother turned a funny pale color when I asked her what that meant.” She laughed, a high and delicate sound. “It sort of feels wrong to me too. My mother said I must not kiss any more boys. But the books say it is good to be wrong sometimes.”

No more comes of that, since they're interrupted by the boy's mother. (Said boy's mother is completely batshit, so it can be inferred that she tried to "purify" the girl in a manner that got both her and the girl killed. However, in the interest of good taste, I don't directly describe that incident--if the reader really wants to know what happened, it can all be figured out through implications put together in several other chapters.)

 

[Darkniciad]

“The knight always says that. He says it is wrong to be with the princess, and what would happen if the king knew, and she kisses him so he will stop talking. Then the books say lots of things about throbbing man-meat and quivering passages--my mother turned a funny pale color when I asked her what that meant.” She laughed, a high and delicate sound. “It sort of feels wrong to me too. My mother said I must not kiss any more boys. But the books say it is good to be wrong sometimes.”

If that doesn't get it bounced, it slipped through the cracks. If anybody reports it after the fact, it'll get un-approved.

No way that's passing muster. Far too detailed.

Take out the bold section and the kissing alone is in the "iffy" zone for pre-18.

 

[PennLady]

Huh. Not to quibble but I have noticed that it does depend on the person authorizing the submitted story, too. One of my stories I had submitted mentioned a character engaging in sexual activity under 18 (the story wasn't about that incident, it was established as background to the character -- literally a one-liner) and my story was dinged and sent back to me.

So, I nerfed the story to make the incident an 18+ incident. It made it a little bit unrealistic for the character but it was an exceedingly minor thing.

Just brought that up to emphasize that, while Lit may have an 18+ stipulation, it also does depend on the gatekeeper person about how that stipulation is applied.

I'm not sure I get the argument here -- you had an underage character engaging in sexual activity and it got nabbed, just as we all said usually happens. I don't know just what your sentence said, obviously, but sounds like it was too specific.

 

[sr71plt]

Huh. Not to quibble but I have noticed that it does depend on the person authorizing the submitted story, too. One of my stories I had submitted mentioned a character engaging in sexual activity under 18 (the story wasn't about that incident, it was established as background to the character -- literally a one-liner) and my story was dinged and sent back to me.

So, I nerfed the story to make the incident an 18+ incident. It made it a little bit unrealistic for the character but it was an exceedingly minor thing.

Just brought that up to emphasize that, while Lit may have an 18+ stipulation, it also does depend on the gatekeeper person about how that stipulation is applied.

I'm pretty sure there's only one actual person gatekeeping Lit. submissions. There's a computer bot in front of that one person trying to weed out some of the "no goes," but that isn't a person.

 

[PennLady]

I was connecting it up with your quote (read my first reply) about saying character X loosing their virginity in high school being okay. I was commenting on the fact that I had something similar (I don't remember my actual line now, but it was literally a one-line thing where the character related "I messed around with her when we were younger"). I was juxtaposing your hypothetical with what actually happened with me.

I got dinged because I didn't specify an age for that one-liner.

There was no argument for me. I was commenting on something you said, in order to give the original poster something to think about when submitting stories

Sorry, I obviously misunderstood.

 

[snoopercharmbrights]

I'm pretty sure there's only one actual person gatekeeping Lit. submissions

Thanks! That's more than I knew originally

This is a theory which has persisted for some time. However look at the facts:
1 There are 50 or more new stories accepted each day, 365 days per year. Even with bots that is a hell of a workload for one individual.
2 The decisions are sometimes divergent in similar cases (or occasionally the same story simply resubmitted), to the extent that they could be opinion differences, rather than personal inconsistencies. This is most obvious in the variable requirement for accurate punctuation.

I believe (after more than 10 years here) that "Laurel" has several instantiations.

 

[Darkniciad]

Uhm... No. Laurel told me directly when we were discussing something else that she's the one and only person approving stories. The differences are entirely due to speed reading to keep up with the onslaught of submissions.

The consistent style and word choice of the postings simply doesn't support "Laurel" being an inherited title either.

 

[soflabbwlvr]

The consistent style and word choice of the postings simply doesn't support "Laurel" being an inherited title either.

Unlike "The Dread Pirate Roberts"?

 

[AsylumSeeker]

Uhm... No. Laurel told me directly when we were discussing something else that she's the one and only person approving stories. The differences are entirely due to speed reading to keep up with the onslaught of submissions.

The consistent style and word choice of the postings simply doesn't support "Laurel" being an inherited title either.

I was told the same by Laurel. She says she's very "hands-on" and wouldn't leave it to anyone else to help her out. Although I mentioned this in a different thread once and I believe it was Snooper, could be wrong, who said this was impossible.

I guess the question is, "Do you believe in Santa Claus?"

 

[palisa]

I'm not sure I get the argument here -- you had an underage character engaging in sexual activity and it got nabbed, just as we all said usually happens. I don't know just what your sentence said, obviously, but sounds like it was too specific.

I haven't posted in any of the threads on this subject because I have no problem with the rule and thought I understood it fairly well.

But I stumbled across a story today that gave me pause. The sixth paragraph of "Julie's Mistake Ch. 14" is a pretty explicit description of the point in question. I would have just put that down as something that slipped through, except that the story is labeled as a contest winner, which I assume would have received more scrutiny than most other stories. Am I missing something here?

 

[sr71plt]

I don't think contest stories get any more website scrutiny than any other story. If no one reported underage after the story posted, I don't think the website administrators are even going to know it's there.