Dear Kansas Governor Samuel Dale "Sam" Brownback:

[KingOrfeo]

I ain't confusing them. States are organizations, nations are organic ethnocultural communities. Nations can live much longer than states. France is the same nation now as in 1789, after its tenth? eleventh? regime change in that period. The Polish nation survived a century and a half of partition and foreign rule.

But whatever your nation, it's really bad to have to live without a state.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Now define "Statist."

 

[badbabysitter]

Freedom of speech is not the freedom to say anything you want with impunity.

I am supporting the Constitution. If you say something publicly demeaning about someone, then they have the right to ask the rest of society to censure you, maybe even sue you civilly.

Apparently, the school officials thought it made THEM look bad, so they acted, otherwise they would have filed it in the trash...

I think it is important to get the message out to young people that the internet is not a safe place to "bare" yourself free of reprisal. It is public, it is not private, and there are consequences to most everything you do especially when it affects other people.

And eyer, if you ever listen to a radio talk show and hear the Republicans bemoaning, why don't we ever fight back? why do we always turn our backs on those attacked? why can't we fight like Democrats and protect our own when spurious charges are leveled at perfectly good, honest people, well, you're part of the reason why...

They say, FREEDOM OF SPEECH, and you turn into a moderate RINO...

right.. so what do you think of this guy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgce06Yw2ro

I'm guessing he couldnt " fight like Democrats" because clearly what he said was not a " spurious charge"


but an 18 year old being tracked down by her Governor for disliking him

well, clearly that's important


fuck, you are such an amazing hypocrite

 

[eyer]

Dear 4est_4est_Gump:

If I had your personal and partisan attachment to the governor and his politics, I would've - obviously - never posted this thread...

...and if I had your personal and partisan attachment to the governor and his politics, I would recuse myself from commenting in this thread in fear I would be recognized for the cheerleader I'd clearly be.

As I posted previously after your subjective stabs at devaluing a high school girl's worth in our political process, her nor the governors politics matter to me...

...as do not the politics of Obama or the Democrat Party or you or the Republican Party.

If you decree after analyzing one party's dirty campaign strategy that the other dirty party must fight fire with fire...

...that's great (I guess).

But...

...it's not necessarily at all for me to care about that, either, especially in regards to the specific thread topic.

Constituted free speech was expressly incorporated into the First Amendment to protect adversarial political speech...

...not to endorse a kinder and gentler mode of politics, or even suggest a respectful one.

A young woman of voting and dying-for-her-country age has been persecuted and punished for Constitutionally-protected political speech others, in political power over her, simply do not approve of...

...that, my friend, is something the Constitutional oath-taking governor of any American state - and regardless of any partisan political affiliation - should've instantly prevented, and should already have made amends for.

See...

...I don't view you or her or the governor or Obama or Bush or Newt or Pelosi as anyone - or anything - different than me:

Individual American citizens, whose reverence for the principles of the Declaration and the dictates of the Constitution naturally and atomically supersedes any consideration of partisan politics at all.

Homey don't fall for that lesser of two evils deception no more...

 

[unregistered]

 

[eyer]

The governor could've nipped this thing in bud by taking the high road and doing the right thing...

...but he didn't, and now this weed grows politically uglier:

Teen tweeter won't apologize to Sam Brownback

KANSAS CITY, Mo. - A Kansas teenager who wrote a disparaging tweet about Gov. Sam Brownback said Sunday that she is rejecting her high school principal’s demand for a written apology.

Emma Sullivan, 18, of the Kansas City suburb of Fairway, said she isn’t sorry and doesn’t think such a letter would be sincere.

The Shawnee Mission East senior was taking part in a Youth in Government program last week in Topeka, Kan., when she sent out a tweet from the back of a crowd of students listening to Brownback’s greeting. From her cellphone, she thumbed: “Just made mean comments at gov. brownback,” and then specified what the comments were.

She actually made no such comment and said she was “just joking with friends.” But Brownback’s office, which monitors social media for postings containing the governor’s name, saw Sullivan’s post and contacted the Youth in Government program.

Sullivan received a scolding at school and was ordered to send Brownback an apology letter. She said Prinicipal Karl R. Krawitz even suggested talking points for the letter she was supposed to turn in Monday.

The situation exploded after Sullivan’s older sister contacted the media. Since then, Sullivan’s following on Twitter has grown to about 3,000 people, up from about 65 before the tweet. She said she thinks the tweet has helped “open up dialogue” about free speech in social media..

“I would do it again,” she said.

Sullivan has received emails from attorneys but is waiting to see what happens when she refuses to hand in a letter. Krawitz, her principal, told The Kansas City Star previously that the situation is a “private issue, not a public matter” but didn’t return a phone message from The Associated Press at his home Sunday.

She hasn’t heard from Brownback or his staff. She said she wouldn’t mind sitting down and talking to the governor.

Sullivan said she disagrees with Brownback politically, particularly his decision to veto the Kansas Arts Commission’s entire budget, which eliminated the state’s arts funding. Brownback has argued arts programs can flourish with private dollars and that state funds should go to core government functions, such as education and social services.

“I think it would be interesting to have a dialogue with him,” she said. “I don’t know if he would do it or not though. And I don’t know that he would listen to what I have to say.”

Sherriene Jones-Sontag, the governor’s spokeswoman, told The Star previously that Sullivan’s message wasn’t respectful and that it takes mutual respect to “really have a constructive dialogue.” Brownback’s office didn’t return calls or emails Sunday from the AP.

Sullivan’s mother, Julie, said she isn’t angry with her daughter, even though she thinks she “could have chosen different words.”

“She wasn’t speaking to the 3,000 followers she has now,” Julie Sullivan said. “She was talking to 65 friends. And also it’s the speech they use today. It’s more attention grabbing. I raised my kids to be independent, to be strong, to be free thinkers.

“If she wants to tweet her opinion about Gov. Brownback, I say for her to go for it and I stand totally behind her.”

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1111/69175.html

 

[Comshaw]

Discussions on such happenings are so entertaining. AJ says it be Ok if the government censures a young ladies written thoughts because after all kids need to learn the repercussions of free speech.

Let's take a look at the facts: She posted it on her Twitter account, on her phone. He's a politician. I really believe that she has the right to say what ever she wants to because it was a political statement against a political figure. While it was posted about the event happening at the school, it was no way connected to the school.

There should never be any repercussions, let me repeat that for those who have a comprehension problem, there should never be ANY repercussions to free speech, otherwise it isn't free. There's been a lot of blood spilled over the last 234 years to make that a reality. I for one don't want no damned arrogant ass governor or school principal trying to change that.

The school has no right to demand an apology. The governor has no right to ask for it either. This smacks of government censure of a citizens political views. There is no difference between what the governors staff did and what every government wanting to control their populace has done. Silence then control.

AJ says that in Kansas they teach them manners. That may be true, but I think they need to learn a bit more about what freedom really means. Had this been a young conservative Tweeting about a liberal governor I'd feel the same. You can't quash speech just because you disapprove of it's content or political view. to do so is to follow in the foot steps of tyrants.

One of the best expressions I've ever heard on this subject was from a movie, "The American President". Yes,yes I know the movie had a very liberal slant to it. But nuggets of Wisdom rarely come only from where you expect them.

"...You want free speech, let's see you acknowledge a man who's words make your blood boil, standing center stage advocating at the top of his lungs that which you would spend a lifetime opposing at the top of yours..."

Free speech has to be just that, free, unfettered and available to all. Even young girls who tweet.

Comshaw

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

I agree fully 100% that she had the right to say anything she wants.

So, she should be able to tweet in class and tell her friends that the teacher, as ya'll just pointed out, a "government official," sucks and when he finds out, he's supposed to celebrate her free speech and not retaliate in any way, shape or form...

No wonder they think they have the right to occupy parks and streets with no permits.

We're teaching them that free speech is a free pass for poor, even illegal behavior.

But if she shares nude phone pics of herself, then we don't defend her "free speech," we jump right to telling her what she can, and cannot do with her body...



I also understand that Free Speech bears responsibility and consequences and yet I find myself surrounded by people who say, NUH-HUH!

Free speech means yelling FIRE in a crowded theater!

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

The governor could've nipped this thing in bud by taking the high road and doing the right thing...

...but he didn't, and now this weed grows politically uglier:

Good for her.


I hope her future employers take this into account when they do a background internet search on her when she applies to work for the "suckers."

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

They'll remember she's a good little Democrat and which Party hates them when they are successful...



She'll probably feel she has a "right" to office supplies to offset the oppression of her undeservedly and discriminatory low entrance wage.

 

[JohnnySavage]

Does the student have the right to say what she wants? Yes - and she did.

Does the school have the right to set standards of conduct for students representing the school? Yes. She violated the standards of conduct and was sanctioned.

Sounds like the scheme worked perfectly.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Does the student have the right to say what she wants? Yes - and she did.

Does the school have the right to set standards of conduct for students representing the school? Yes. She violated the standards of conduct and was sanctioned.

Sounds like the scheme worked perfectly.

We agree!



The school did not act because she embarrassed SAM!

 

[JohnnySavage]

Back in the day, the mullet ruled. I remember the career counselor in high school telling us young dumb asses that we can dress how ever we want, and we can sport any look we want; but if we wanted to work for IBM we had to look like we worked for IBM.

That's just a little story from the Johnny Files to start your day off right.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I agree fully 100% that she had the right to say anything she wants.

So, she should be able to tweet in class and tell her friends that the teacher, as ya'll just pointed out, a "government official," sucks and when he finds out, he's supposed to celebrate her free speech and not retaliate in any way, shape or form...

No wonder they think they have the right to occupy parks and streets with no permits.

We're teaching them that free speech is a free pass for poor, even illegal behavior.

But if she shares nude phone pics of herself, then we don't defend her "free speech," we jump right to telling her what she can, and cannot do with her body...



I also understand that Free Speech bears responsibility and consequences and yet I find myself surrounded by people who say, NUH-HUH!

Free speech means yelling FIRE in a crowded theater!

The student is an adult.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

The student is an adult.

That's the basis to Dixon's stories; all High School girls are 18...

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

That's the basis to Dixon's stories; all High School girls are 18...

Thats a whole nuther thread: HOW COME PRETEND IS A FELONY?

 

[eyer]

All because a grown man - an American governor, ffs - refuses to respect one of the most elementary of life's truisms:

Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words can never hurt me.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

All because a grown man - an American governor, ffs - refuses to respect one of the most elementary of life's truisms:

Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words can never hurt me.

His snit makes him seem petty and thin-skinned.

 

[cjh]

In his discussion of liberty and the clear-and-present danger notion, Mr. Meyer runs smack up against one of these fundamental contradictions: liberty vs. tyranny. Liberty calls for absolute freedom of speech and expression; tyranny calls for suppression of opinions disagreeable to those who wield the guns. Anxious to blend a mixture of the two (a mixture which will preserve libertarian principle and yet justify the incarceration of a handful of Communist pamphleteers), Mr. Meyer runs aground on a dilemma. A man of principle, he becomes forced, in the name of "prudence," to mix principle and heresy.

My disappointment stems from Mr. Meyer’s previous eloquent attacks on the current cult of "moderation." For "prudence" is apparently but an antiquated version of this modern vice. Consider Mr. Meyer’s opinion that principled rights conflict, and therefore that, in an imperfect world, prudence must somehow, even "hypocritically," decide between them. But on what grounds? I am afraid that this is an abdication of right reason, and not its application. Any such prudential decision must be on vaguely emotional grounds, rather than rational ones.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/rothbard65.html

 

[about_average]

Maybe the Governor pals around with the Dallas Cowboys.

WTF is with the "she'll learn when companies do background checks"?
Maybe it was stupid of her to tweet it, that's not the issue. Republicans are always ranting about the "nanny state". So now you think the state needs to step in and protect her from herself so she doesn't damage her future employment prospects? Or is this just another red herring because you you have no arguments worth a damn to counter the fact that the school and governor (i.e., the State) is censuring a citizen for an innocuous statement.

As for the schools being able to control student speech, that is generally held to be the case only if it's disruptive.
http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=15235797139493194004&hl=en&as_sdt=2&as_vis=1&oi=scholarr

What she said was not on school grounds and was not disruptive to the school, except for the principle making a mountain out of a molehill which I'm sure caused a lot of disruption.

I was disheartened to read that she was going to write the letter of apology, but it looks like she thought better of it. Good for her!
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/...t-will-NOT-apologize-to-Brownback?via=sidebar

Of course, an alternative would be for her to go ahead and write to him:

Dear Governor Brownback,
I've been told to write you a letter of apology, so I just wanted to let you know that I am very sorry that you suck.

With all sincerity,
Emma Sullivan

 

[richard_daily]

Does eeyore think that Governor Samuel Dale is on lit trolling for rent boys too?

 

[Wrong Element]

I think the real issue here is that the governor's staff is monitoring Twitter for mentions of Brownback's name. Leaving aside the obvious implications for free speech, that seems like a ridiculous use of taxpayers' money for an alleged fiscal conservative.

AJ's stance doesn't surprise me, as he's made it clear many times that people who disagree with him do not have free speech rights. If he's a "libertarian," the word has no meaning.

 

[KingOrfeo]

All because a grown man - an American governor, ffs - refuses to respect one of the most elementary of life's truisms:

Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words can never hurt me.

They can in politics. Politics is fought in words.

 

[badbabysitter]

Does the student have the right to say what she wants? Yes - and she did.

Does the school have the right to set standards of conduct for students representing the school? Yes. She violated the standards of conduct and was sanctioned.

Sounds like the scheme worked perfectly.

Except for the part where she wasn't representing the school.. this was done on her own, not in any official capacity

lets reverse this.. lets say there was somebody who posted something negative about Obama

do you think it would be right if Obama then tracked that person down and made them apologize for saying something mean


AJ's fascism cheerleading is hypocritical to say the least

 

[busybody..]

Except for the part where she wasn't representing the school.. this was done on her own, not in any official capacity

Hye SHITTER

read again

if you can

“In general,” she wrote, “students on school-sponsored field trips, in which they are representing the school, would be expected to conduct themselves in accordance with school district policies, including use of electronic devices. Students may express their personal beliefs, views, and opinions, as long as they do so appropriately and in accordance with school policies.”