A theory about fetishes

[LifelongLearner]

I'd like some input on this.

Background: I never really considered myself to have a fetish, and stayed away from even looking at incest and other types of similar stories (BDSM, nonconsent, etc.) until a few years ago. I found myself really attracted to stories in which one party was reluctant - but not forced - and ended up letting his/herself go. My favorite stories always had either a lot of buildup (slowly breaking down the barriers/increasing the heat) or were sudden / all at once. I then found myself enjoying accidental/unintended encounters - stories in which a body part would slip, someone would be caught doing something, or (and especially) when a an unavoidable event resulted in penetration.

Just recently, I was reading a story on Chyoo, and found it to be one of the hottest I'd read yet. I skipped around the threads via the story map. Partly because of the nature of Chyoo, I think, there were a lot of tense moments and mini-cliff-hangers as the tension built. I quickly discovered that the two particular characters at my attention were siblings. I decided to read the whole thread through, and then began reading incest stories here on Lit.

As I was afraid would happen, I found myself attracted to the stories while also psychologically disturbed by them. I knew that the aversion to incest was simply due to upbringing (cultural anthropology and psychology student here), so I purposely read more to see if I could get past the block. It wasn't working, but I was less uncomfortable. Eventually I imagined myself with my own sister in a dream or something, and was shocked that it happened. When I consciously considered if I would be attracted to my sister were she next to me, however, I was immediately repulsed by the idea.

Theory: I know that a common theme of fetishes is doing something forbidden. I used to think that the "forbidden nature" of the events was the attraction. Considering my own attraction toward stories where desire turns into unrestrained action, however, I think that the real attraction is this:

When a person(s) is overwhelmed by desire, they willingly cross a boundary of some sort. The stronger the boundary, the hotter it is. Incest, sex before marriage, cheating, public nudity or sex - any sort of a cultural-psychological barrier can be the line that's crossed. The desire/lust/arousal involved is the key in any fetish, not really the specific act.



Does that make sense to you? Do you see it in your own attractions/interests?

 

[MedicalMuse]

I can agree with that on some levels. I grew up in an area where almost everything was prohibited. So, naturally, the teenagers tended to get wilder. The parents would be just as bad, but hid it better. It was all about how intensely you wanted that feeling, which drove you to do it, even when it was forbidden.
I know this was short, but I completely get what you're saying.

 

[LifelongLearner]

Glad to know that my thoughts sound fitting.

As I considered it, though, I think that I need to make a distinction. At the moment, I think there are two types of fetishes - one that's like what I mentioned above, and another that's more like a conditioned response. I once read a story about a guy who gets off when he's around tires, because he used to jack off around them - a physically conditioned response. I'd say there are culturally and psychologically conditioned responses, too.

Actually, the second type might be some explanation for why some people who have become molested seek more sexual activity. The molestation was a 'strongly influential situation' that started a strong response (depending on how the person reacted physically and mentally to it). It could just as easily explain why some people who were molested want nothing to do with sex.

 

[MedicalMuse]

I suppose. It could also explain why some people prefer to be submissive and some prefer to be dominant. Depending in previous sexual experiences. And then there is the learning curve; expanding sexual knowledge because sex is a big deal for we humans....

 

[Arotico]

I agree with your boundary theory, but I believe even the "conditioned response" type of fetish is about cultural-psychological barriers. Merriam-Webster's Medical dictionary defines a fetish as:
"an object or bodily part whose real or fantasized presence is psychologically necessary for sexual gratification and that is an object of fixation to the extent that it may interfere with complete sexual expression"

Therefore, the person with the fetish has psychologically set limits on their own sexual gratification that must be met (in other words, crossed) in order to reach that satisfied state.

As a victim of incest who has always been more interested in the sexual world than the average person, I can say that my preoccupation with it has had everything to do with boundary issues as well. My protective barriers were violated as a child, and I've spent the rest of my life running past those lines without realizing it. Even when I know where they are, I am all too often compelled to cross over them. So I say it's all about boundaries.

 

[GDavidson]

It seems to me that this conversation, the two general theories represented, and varying degrees of involvement in the fetish, all suggest that "fetish" involves a pretty complicated set of emotions. Some dabble, some fantasize and some want to act out. Very, very complicated...no simple answers.

 

[MedicalMuse]

I'm going to have to agree with GD. Too many variables to fit it all in a nice, tidy box. The human mind is just way too messy for that...

 

[sunandshadow]

Intense arousal motivating someone to do something forbidden is one of my favorite types of story. I think it's appealing because of both the 'intense arousal' part AND the 'forbidden' part - I don't see any reason why it would have to be one or the other. Forbidden things and intense emotions are both things that are inherently interesting to human beings, in non-sexual contexts as well as sexual ones. For example if you look at folktales, there are many which begin with the hero being forbidden to go somewhere or do something, which he usually promptly does.

We've evolved as social creatures, and even in prehistory proto-humans were going around forbidding each other to stay away from both dangerous things (the edge of a cliff, a local bully) and desirable things (stashes of food, particularly warm and comfortable sleeping spots, mates). Sometimes things can be both dangerous and valuable, like weapons or objects of spiritual/magical power (if one believe in that sort of thing). Anything forbidden is usually important in one way or another, so it's natural and useful to feel compelled to investigate the forbidden to find out what is really is and whether we are allowing good stuff to be hoarded away from us to our disadvantage.

Intense emotions are similarly useful for us to be interested in. If someone else is really happy, we ought to find out what made them happy because it might benefit us too. If someone else considers something desirable, maybe they know a secret about its value that we don't. If someone else is really upset, that's a problem that disrupts social life and we have to figure out whether to try to fix it, offer comfort, or avoid whatever has caused the problem if it can't be fixed.

The issue of conditioned responses shaping what someone is arouse by is just the nature vs. nurture argument. IMHO the answer to that argument is always 'both' - people are partly shaped by their experiences, including non-sexual ones, but also their interests are partly determined by their genetics and genetically determined brain structure and chemistry. There's good evidence that we have some evolved, genetically-determined instincts for selecting mates who are most likely to help us produce and raise children who will be healthy, intelligent, strong, fast, and attractive to their own potential mates, resulting in more grandchildren. There's also good evidence that a group of toddlers raised in identical conditions they will turn out to have a distinct variety of personality types, so personality also must be partly genetic. And that includes whether the children prefer to act socially dominant, submissive, assertive, or ignoring/avoidant toward each other.

 

[MedicalMuse]

It seems to me that this conversation, the two general theories represented, and varying degrees of involvement in the fetish, all suggest that "fetish" involves a pretty complicated set of emotions. Some dabble, some fantasize and some want to act out. Very, very complicated...no simple answers.

Sex should never be simple. In all it's forms sex is complex. It might be base and animalistic, but even that is rarely simple. I don't believe in trite answers and boxes. I think I was more interested in stating that a lot of sexual fetishes have their root somewhere in our previous experiences or deepest wants. *shrug* to each his/her own. The experience is what you make it.

 

[Fantasies_only]

A needed sexual response as apposed to a wanted sexual response seems to me that it's built up over time, for instance that guy masturbating to cybersex images he can manipulate on the Web, watched anime (not hentai) in his youth and even American comic books (girl superheros are hot) as a child.
Everything you see has a fantasy attached now-a-days (even Cheetara of Thundercats).

In fact, it was like that in the 18th Century, only not as often.

 

[Debbie920]

Maybe you just enjoyed the incest stories because they was written in a way you liked.... After a while you wanted more!!!! It's not a fetish it's a preference! One type of story is preferred over others. Do you only read incest stories? Is incest the only way you can have sex? Is incest the only thing that you like?

I doubt it, it's just a subject that you like due to reading some stories

 

[vibes]

Whereas a fetish is the only way one can convey their sexual instincts?

 

[LifelongLearner]

Thanks for the feedback. I've done more thinking about the subject since I posted here, and have come to some other conclusions.

A few of you pointed out in one way or another that I wasn't talking about a 'fetish" in the sense that some associate with a dictionary definition or psych text, but defined as something like "idiosyncratic turn-on". I'm normally a stickler for defining terms. I apologize for not being clearer with my thoughts.

There's definitely more to sexual desire and fetishes (in the 'proper' sense) than my first thoughts related to, but I think I'm starting to put together a number of explanations that clear things up.


Anyway, my reason for starting this thread was to see if my thoughts made sense to others, and to resolve my lack of understanding about my interests. Those have both been accomplished.

Thanks again!

 

[switchbitch]

I'm going to have to agree with GD. Too many variables to fit it all in a nice, tidy box. The human mind is just way too messy for that...

it is indeed, the infinite variety of triggers, drives and behaviours are one of the most wonderful things about the human condition and are the things that give us individuality. That individuality prevents tidy boxes even if we wanted them.how boring it would be if we were all the same or even simply similar.

 

[roomfor1more]

My own feeling, you are confusing taboo with fetish. Taboo is doing something that is forbidden whereas a fetish is an item, usually something physical, that is needed for arousal. Since you need an item, such as seeing fishnet stockings to become aroused, it separates a fetish from other activities like cuckolding.

 

[amofiga]

The notion of "taboo" with sex isn't new or unusual. The political or religious leaders of virtually all societies have imposed taboos or laws to control raw human behavior. In many cases, these restrictions are practical and healthy. We couldn't have a society where the strong simply attack, murder, rape anyone they have the physical power to overcome. We couldn't have a strong society where members of the immediate family mate and produce defective offspring. So we impose laws and taboos about what is and isn't allowed with punishments for breaking taboos. Unfortunately, human nature being what it is, we tend to want what we can't have. The more someone says we can't have it, the more we want it. Be become like the toddler throwing a tantrum in the grocery store because mom won't let him have candy.

Many of the old taboos from ancient times no longer seem relevant or carry the same rationale that they once did. Prior to birth control techniques such as the pill or condoms or other techniques other than withdrawl before ejaculation, sex often resulted in pregnancy. Not so the case anymore. Given that, would it be that horrible for brother and sister or cousins or even parents and children having consentual sex after an appropriate age of consent? I'm not promoting the concept of child abuse. I'm suggesting that two cousins or siblings who are say 20 years old who decide to have non-procreation recreational sex should not necessarily be held to the old taboos. Again, I stress fully consentual, non-procreation sex that does not negatively impact other family dynamics.

I am currenty in the process of writing such a story which I plan to submit in about a week or maybe two. My goal is to present this situation in the most caring, compassionate, and loving way. It's working title is "The Velvet Taboo".

 

[KatNW1]

Amofiga - love the title, BTW.

Many things that are taboo now weren't in the past (look at royalty, who married cousins to cousins and basically interwove most of the European monarchies in an attempt to put a halt to war and to strengthen power). I'm not saying that makes certain things RIGHT (uh, paedophilia, anyone?), I'm merely making an observation.

I don't know a whole lot about the subject, but like switchbitch I find it interesting. Humans are fascinating creatures. What makes us tick or causes us to nod off is even more fascinating.

 

[Stanstheman]

Nothing more complex than the human mind.

 

[Samuelx]

I'd like some input on this.

Background: I never really considered myself to have a fetish, and stayed away from even looking at incest and other types of similar stories (BDSM, nonconsent, etc.) until a few years ago. I found myself really attracted to stories in which one party was reluctant - but not forced - and ended up letting his/herself go. My favorite stories always had either a lot of buildup (slowly breaking down the barriers/increasing the heat) or were sudden / all at once. I then found myself enjoying accidental/unintended encounters - stories in which a body part would slip, someone would be caught doing something, or (and especially) when a an unavoidable event resulted in penetration.

Just recently, I was reading a story on Chyoo, and found it to be one of the hottest I'd read yet. I skipped around the threads via the story map. Partly because of the nature of Chyoo, I think, there were a lot of tense moments and mini-cliff-hangers as the tension built. I quickly discovered that the two particular characters at my attention were siblings. I decided to read the whole thread through, and then began reading incest stories here on Lit.

As I was afraid would happen, I found myself attracted to the stories while also psychologically disturbed by them. I knew that the aversion to incest was simply due to upbringing (cultural anthropology and psychology student here), so I purposely read more to see if I could get past the block. It wasn't working, but I was less uncomfortable. Eventually I imagined myself with my own sister in a dream or something, and was shocked that it happened. When I consciously considered if I would be attracted to my sister were she next to me, however, I was immediately repulsed by the idea.

Theory: I know that a common theme of fetishes is doing something forbidden. I used to think that the "forbidden nature" of the events was the attraction. Considering my own attraction toward stories where desire turns into unrestrained action, however, I think that the real attraction is this:

When a person(s) is overwhelmed by desire, they willingly cross a boundary of some sort. The stronger the boundary, the hotter it is. Incest, sex before marriage, cheating, public nudity or sex - any sort of a cultural-psychological barrier can be the line that's crossed. The desire/lust/arousal involved is the key in any fetish, not really the specific act.



Does that make sense to you? Do you see it in your own attractions/interests?

Everybody has fetishes. Nobody's normal. That means everybody's normal....except rapists, beastiality bozos and wenches along with sex offenders.

 

[Abitov]

I'd like some input on this.

Background: I never really considered myself to have a fetish, and stayed away from even looking at incest and other types of similar stories (BDSM, nonconsent, etc.) until a few years ago. I found myself really attracted to stories in which one party was reluctant - but not forced - and ended up letting his/herself go. My favorite stories always had either a lot of buildup (slowly breaking down the barriers/increasing the heat) or were sudden / all at once. I then found myself enjoying accidental/unintended encounters - stories in which a body part would slip, someone would be caught doing something, or (and especially) when a an unavoidable event resulted in penetration.

Just recently, I was reading a story on Chyoo, and found it to be one of the hottest I'd read yet. I skipped around the threads via the story map. Partly because of the nature of Chyoo, I think, there were a lot of tense moments and mini-cliff-hangers as the tension built. I quickly discovered that the two particular characters at my attention were siblings. I decided to read the whole thread through, and then began reading incest stories here on Lit.

As I was afraid would happen, I found myself attracted to the stories while also psychologically disturbed by them. I knew that the aversion to incest was simply due to upbringing (cultural anthropology and psychology student here), so I purposely read more to see if I could get past the block. It wasn't working, but I was less uncomfortable. Eventually I imagined myself with my own sister in a dream or something, and was shocked that it happened. When I consciously considered if I would be attracted to my sister were she next to me, however, I was immediately repulsed by the idea.

Theory: I know that a common theme of fetishes is doing something forbidden. I used to think that the "forbidden nature" of the events was the attraction. Considering my own attraction toward stories where desire turns into unrestrained action, however, I think that the real attraction is this:

When a person(s) is overwhelmed by desire, they willingly cross a boundary of some sort. The stronger the boundary, the hotter it is. Incest, sex before marriage, cheating, public nudity or sex - any sort of a cultural-psychological barrier can be the line that's crossed. The desire/lust/arousal involved is the key in any fetish, not really the specific act.

Does that make sense to you? Do you see it in your own attractions/interests?

Hi LifeLongLearner:

Yeah, it does make sense.

Abitov

 

[Abitov]

I suppose. It could also explain why some people prefer to be submissive and some prefer to be dominant. Depending in previous sexual experiences. And then there is the learning curve; expanding sexual knowledge because sex is a big deal for we humans....

I just read some interesting research to the effect that sexual submissiveness / dominance is a genetic trait, or at least has a large genetic component. However, the research was done on another mammalian species (don' t recall which one right now), and it can be pretty dicey to extrapolate from one species to another without supporting evidence. Still, it is suggestive.

Abitov

 

[sunandshadow]

I just read some interesting research to the effect that sexual submissiveness / dominance is a genetic trait, or at least has a large genetic component. However, the research was done on another mammalian species (don' t recall which one right now), and it can be pretty dicey to extrapolate from one species to another without supporting evidence. Still, it is suggestive.

Abitov

That's interesting. I've seen a different piece of research which showed male sexual behavior was directly related to whether an individual grew up with a lot of food and thus their body was able to become big and strong, or whether an individual grew up with barely enough and their body did not have the resources to produce whatever kind of weaponry was used for male competition for mates in their species. This was a non-mamalian species though, so it's less directly comparable to humans. I have definitely seen families where the whole family is either aggressive or submissive, so a genetic component there would be quite believable.

 

[KoPilot]

My experience with developing a fetish is that it happened before I understood what barriers were, what sex was, or even what taboo was, really. I was in kindergarten or 1st grade, and my fetish took the role of sexual curiosity that's normally present in children. I didn't care about boys or 'naughty bits' or anything of the sort; the fetish object is what became normal for me, and sex itself became the taboo. That lasted until I was in college when I lost my virginity, but growing up and relating to the world and my body in that mindset still very much has a hold on me.

 

[Feotakahari]

As a transformation fetishist, I have a somewhat unusual take on this. With the exception of "gamer," I've never had an identity--I'm multiracial, agender, bisexual, irreligious . . . Every time someone has treated me as having an identity, they've tried to force me to act or think in a way contrary to how I normally act and think. To me, transformation porn is a way of escaping the concept of taboos--for instance, if I could be both a man and a woman, I would be able to act like a man sometimes and like a woman sometimes.

 

[KatieTay]

I would love to know why and how I got to fetishizing female muscles and combative activities, whether it is f/f or m/f. Even m/m can be erotic to me but mostly only if there is the element of struggle involved, and women involved somehow as well.

I have honestly no idea.

My paraphilias are: kratophilia, sthenolagnia, and agonophilia. I think that's about right...