Can Any Women Help Enlighten Me?

[boy]

Dear, Dear Women:

I’m looking for some blunt, blunt honesty here, about women’s (lesbian, straight, bi, Dom, sub, . . .) gut level reactions to male humiliation.

First, here is a brief bio. to give you a rough idea of where I’m coming from:

I’m 48 y/o male, and since I hit puberty around 13 or so, my fantasy (and on occasion actual) life has naturally revolved around me being sexually humiliated—by a woman, or by a man at a dominant woman’s request (and in practice, frequently by a man where the woman involved was solely a fantasy creation in my mind—for me, sucking a cock when ordered to by a woman is incredible—sucking a cock without a woman’s direction is just, well, boring.) Originally pretty tame, over the years my fantasies have of course expanded and intensified: e.g. cuckoldry, forced cock and pussy worship, verbal humiliation, crème pies, incest, mom-dom, mom-in-law-dom, sissification, some pain . . . I’m sure you get the general idea. But, the humiliation stemming from some type of emasculation of me has always been the one constant. And just for the record: I’m not complaining; I don’t have the slightest idea where this proclivity of mine came from, and am / always have been at ease with it, and willing and able to enjoy it. We are who we are indeed.


Now I have always assumed that 99.9% of women would be disgusted and repulsed by a man who harbored such desires, let alone one who actually requested her to help bring them to life (and trust me, cuckold / humiliation fetishists learn early that these desires can and usually do provoke intense hostility and intolerance in an awful lot of folks—so, not surprisingly, we are a naturally secretive lot.) And, I have also assumed that women who actually did get involved in such, were either doing it for love—not lust (a bit like pinching your nose when taking cough syrup), or else were doing it for money. I’m not knocking either motive—to each her own. But since discovering the forums here at Literotica, I’ve begun to re-think some of my assumptions, and that perhaps the numbers of women who would (or at least could) genuinely get turned on by such male-humiliation themes (or actual scenes) might be higher than I’ve been thinking.

So ladies, please, please educate me. Is your instinctive reaction to this theme one of disgust? Confusion? Arousal? Contempt? Curiosity? Indifference . . . ?

Archer
(or occasionally: ‘Missy’)

 

[Loverskitten]

Ok you want blunt... Disgust bordering on indeference.
I love a confident man. Period!
Hmmmm I witnessed some male humiliation tonight, wonder if I know you (or know of you) very timely post.

 

[Danyka]

I have to agree with kitten. The last thing I want in a relationship is a weak indecisive man. I know I could not be sexually attracted to a someone that allows me to humiliate them. Then again, I do not know how long I would tolerate being humiliated, either. Personally I find a strong, confident man sexy.

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

I'm actually much more fascinated in it in a male on male scenario.

Female on male doesn't hold any interest for me, but I don't feel turned off or disgusted or anything by the men in those scenarios. Generally I figure they're happy so good for them. Then I move on.

 

[the captians wench]

You'll find some women out there who find it hot, but just like trying to find any fem dom, they are a bit more rare and selective than those of us who are many.

I personally didn't see your tale as weak, you seem to have a good idea of what you like and what you want, and that's good in my book. None of it is really my thing (while I can top, I can't do humiliation. One I suck at it, and two I feel guilty about it, so it just doesn't work). Now you want your balls in a vice, that I can work with. You want me to tell you all of the dirty details of the date I just went on while you sat at home cleaning my apt, again, do able, but if you want me to tell you what a piss poor excuse for a man you are because you did these things, not so much.

I'm also just not into guy on guy action. You wanna do it, cool, but I'm not going to get involved.

 

[Netzach]

It's hot. I enjoy it for $ (live in a past life, on the phone now) and thrills.

If there's something *ultra* compelling and I like the person I enjoy it just for thrills still. ( in person).

It's not because I won't do it UNLESS paid, it's because doing it is a massive expenditure of energy and people are willing to pay, do what you love, right?

I love it. But not after bar close, if that makes sense. Let me explain -

I'm never seriously going to pursue a relationship of hot fucking romantic equality with that person thereafter. That makes no sense whatsoever in my head. Either you're a partner, you can even be submissive and a partner, (in fact, you have to be submissive to be, or willing to submit to me) but if you want to be rolled in dung and spit on, I'm not kissing that mouth to say "there there" after it's over as though we were sweethearts.

You want to play like that you better be tough stuff. But most people who do - are.

You get A with a side of humanity or indulgence OR B - but not both.

Cock is off the axis of "humiliation" for me. I just like to watch men together, and I'm fine facilitating that. For me, what men who are ashamed to suck cock but want me to make them do it NEED to be ashamed of is that they're *ashamed* that they want to suck a cock, which is predicated on feeling superior because they pretend to be straight. Happy to take THAT down in flames.

In regard to my own personal life, you MIGHT luck out and be a sex toy of some kind if you're hung at all, but this would be rare and surprising and completely not at your discretion. It would be like using a dildo you had to autoclave in your dishwasher and you might only do it if you were drunk and bored - and if the sex isn't up to my standards, I have no qualms about never doing it again.

If you wanted it badly again and had bonded to me and had stars in your eyes, so much the better reason to laugh at you.

That's how that works for me, and for every woman I've talked to who's into this for her own gratification, though there's always someone out there otherwise, I guess. I have yet to meet a woman who can get with the program of humiliating (I mean REALLY humiliating, not like ha ha, panties under slacks, which is awesome) the same man she shares a bed with for anything other than *his* enjoyment, because she's blocking those scenes from her mind and may be unable to and the resentment is building and building. Her sexual needs have been buried by his in that case.

Tip: you are going to have a very VERY hard time cultivating this outside of a professional context. My advice is pay for it, but be so freaking stellar and charming that you might be labeled "fun" - "fun" gets invited to the parties. Most lifestyle-only women want nothing to do with humiliating men, in my experience.

I don't think we're special assholes, us pros, I just think that a relationship with very VERY clear boundaries, ironclad boundaries, is necessary for women to really enjoy degrading the fuck out of a guy. That is built into that exchange. It results in a funny reverse masquerade, where the more I respect a client, the more I sometimes must hide THAT fact. I can have a relationship with someone who wants to retain their humanity and I love to - but these always make for ultimately boring relationships without that OUTLET of special set-aside time with someone who is willing to be my non-human for a while and walk away when both our needs are addressed.

 

[the captians wench]

Netz, I was hoping you'd pop in here.

 

[rekane]

Humiliating a man doesn't do an awful lot for me.

When I began my lit life, I played with men who liked humiliation. It was difficult to call them names and try to debase them. Eventually, it became slightly (ever so slightly) easier, but I was more comfortable when I would top without the degradation.

Funny, I do have a cuckold/creampie fantasy, though.

 

[boy]

It's hot. I enjoy it for $ (live in a past life, on the phone now) and thrills.

If there's something *ultra* compelling and I like the person I enjoy it just for thrills still. ( in person).

It's not because I won't do it UNLESS paid, it's because doing it is a massive expenditure of energy and people are willing to pay, do what you love, right?

I love it. But not after bar close, if that makes sense. Let me explain -

I'm never seriously going to pursue a relationship of hot fucking romantic equality with that person thereafter. That makes no sense whatsoever in my head. Either you're a partner, you can even be submissive and a partner, (in fact, you have to be submissive to be, or willing to submit to me) but if you want to be rolled in dung and spit on, I'm not kissing that mouth to say "there there" after it's over as though we were sweethearts.

You want to play like that you better be tough stuff. But most people who do - are.

You get A with a side of humanity or indulgence OR B - but not both.

Cock is off the axis of "humiliation" for me. I just like to watch men together, and I'm fine facilitating that. For me, what men who are ashamed to suck cock but want me to make them do it NEED to be ashamed of is that they're *ashamed* that they want to suck a cock, which is predicated on feeling superior because they pretend to be straight. Happy to take THAT down in flames.

In regard to my own personal life, you MIGHT luck out and be a sex toy of some kind if you're hung at all, but this would be rare and surprising and completely not at your discretion. It would be like using a dildo you had to autoclave in your dishwasher and you might only do it if you were drunk and bored - and if the sex isn't up to my standards, I have no qualms about never doing it again.

If you wanted it badly again and had bonded to me and had stars in your eyes, so much the better reason to laugh at you.

That's how that works for me, and for every woman I've talked to who's into this for her own gratification, though there's always someone out there otherwise, I guess. I have yet to meet a woman who can get with the program of humiliating (I mean REALLY humiliating, not like ha ha, panties under slacks, which is awesome) the same man she shares a bed with for anything other than *his* enjoyment, because she's blocking those scenes from her mind and may be unable to and the resentment is building and building. Her sexual needs have been buried by his in that case.

Tip: you are going to have a very VERY hard time cultivating this outside of a professional context. My advice is pay for it, but be so freaking stellar and charming that you might be labeled "fun" - "fun" gets invited to the parties. Most lifestyle-only women want nothing to do with humiliating men, in my experience.

I don't think we're special assholes, us pros, I just think that a relationship with very VERY clear boundaries, ironclad boundaries, is necessary for women to really enjoy degrading the fuck out of a guy. That is built into that exchange. It results in a funny reverse masquerade, where the more I respect a client, the more I sometimes must hide THAT fact. I can have a relationship with someone who wants to retain their humanity and I love to - but these always make for ultimately boring relationships without that OUTLET of special set-aside time with someone who is willing to be my non-human for a while and walk away when both our needs are addressed.

Thanks Netzach, what a terrific and thoughtful response. And just for the record, I have no desire to make this a lifestyle choice. It is fantasy, with occasional acting out scenes for fantasy fullfillment. My wife and I have found our comfort zone with it--her making up stories of some great sex she just had with studly-do-right once in a while before we have sex. (at least I think she is making them up!). My actual experiences participating in such scenes is, as far as I know (mostly) behind me. Nearing 50, I have sown about every kind of oat I ever cared to, so no regrets.

I definitely get that it would be very difficult or impossible for most women to have a strong and commited romantic love with a door-mat. I was just wondering if it is something any found hot outside the context of romantic involvement.

Thanks again for all you insight. I'm gonna read it about three more times now!

MDW

 

[BiBunny]

I do all that shit on the phone for pay. Very little of it holds any appeal to me in real-life, particularly the sissification. I do like boy-on-boy, but if it's in the context of "forced," I'm not interested.

Cuckolding is something I've been curious about for awhile; however--and this is a very big however--it'd have to be on MY terms. And when it comes to cuckold fetishists, they *never* want it on my terms.

But that, overall, is the problem with most "submissive" men: They want me to dance to their drummer, rather than vice-versa, and that's not going to happen. If you're going to stick me with the charge of handling what goes on instead of the other way around, which is the way I would prefer, then, by God, you're going to do what the fuck I say, when the fuck I say it, and you're going to fucking like it.

For the record, OP, this is a general rant, not one directed at you.

 

[boy]

I do all that shit on the phone for pay. Very little of it holds any appeal to me in real-life, particularly the sissification. I do like boy-on-boy, but if it's in the context of "forced," I'm not interested.

Cuckolding is something I've been curious about for awhile; however--and this is a very big however--it'd have to be on MY terms. And when it comes to cuckold fetishists, they *never* want it on my terms.

But that, overall, is the problem with most "submissive" men: They want me to dance to their drummer, rather than vice-versa, and that's not going to happen. If you're going to stick me with the charge of handling what goes on instead of the other way around, which is the way I would prefer, then, by God, you're going to do what the fuck I say, when the fuck I say it, and you're going to fucking like it.

For the record, OP, this is a general rant, not one directed at you.

Thanks BiBunny

This is all turning out to be eductional for sure, and that was my quest. I liked your remarks on who is really in control. I know when I sub, I always feel like I'm the selfish one. I guess the trick is finding someone who's wants to make you do exactly what you already are wishing to do. So then, I guess tops and bottoms are no more universally compatible than any other two humans. Sigh.

Thanks again,
MDW

 

[serijules]

I don't get off on it, never have. I don't think anything of it really at all. It certainly wouldn't stop me from liking, admiring or being involved with someone who had such desires. I want people to accept me for who I am and not judge me based on my desires....I'm certainly going to give OTHERS that same respect for crying out loud.

I used to play with a guy who secretly desired to be topped. I'm not a switch, but I topped him anyhow because I wanted to do something awesome for him. It never affected how I felt about him as a top or a person whatsoever. I can't say I really understand why it would for others. I find that judgemental, especially in the realm of BDSM where we ALL have unusual desires that don't necessarily dictate who we are as people.

 

[boy]

I don't get off on it, never have. I don't think anything of it really at all. It certainly wouldn't stop me from liking, admiring or being involved with someone who had such desires. I want people to accept me for who I am and not judge me based on my desires....I'm certainly going to give OTHERS that same respect for crying out loud.

I used to play with a guy who secretly desired to be topped. I'm not a switch, but I topped him anyhow because I wanted to do something awesome for him. It never affected how I felt about him as a top or a person whatsoever. I can't say I really understand why it would for others. I find that judgemental, especially in the realm of BDSM where we ALL have unusual desires that don't necessarily dictate who we are as people.

Serijules:

That's undoubtedly one of the most enlightened, humanitarian set of observations I have heard in far too long. And, if I may be forgiven for a back-handed pat on my own back--your views read like you took them directly from my own mind. I just don't get all the judgmental attitudes in the world. I find them usually silly and as harmfull to those who weild them at they are to those against whom they are weilded. All I I can surmise is that lot's of people feel the need (albeit a subconscious one) to try and build themselves up by tearing others down.

Or, as Jimmy Buffett so eloquently put it:

"Once you see that no one really wins,
Then the magic begins"

All the best to you
MDW

 

[serijules]

Like Netz said (we are super duper like-minded soulmates, didn'tchaknow), I can understand not wanting to be a part of those desires in your partner if it is opposite of your own desires. It was never an issue for me, but I can understand a wife not wishing to see her husband be humiliated. I can understand a submissive not willing to watch her dominant fulfill those fantasies of his/her own. I can understand a dominant not wishing to cross the lines into affection and otherwise "normal" relationships with their submissives. I don't feel the same way, but I understand it. It's a difficult balance to maintain and not for everyone. This makes total sense to me, because that participation can really upset the balance of your other relationships with a person.

However, to say "Ew, he's submissive, I like my men STRONG!" is really missing something for me, mostly because I see many women comment on how they are strong, able individuals despite their willingness to submit, yet cannot embrace or accept that in men. It isn't a gender-specific trait, yet many make it so. Only WOMEN are allowed to be submissive yet still be strong. That mentality reeks of insecurity to me.

Heck, a man willing to be humiliated and submissive and still be self confident able people who love themselves are a heck of a lot stronger than most give them credit for. It's the men who have those desires and refuse to embrace them for fear of how the women in their lives with view them that borders on a form of weakness that I personally find unattractive. Who is really the dominant in that situation?

 

[BiBunny]

Oh, God, seri. You just slaughtered the sacred cow, LOL.

 

[boy]

Thanks Serijules

Like Netz said (we are super duper like-minded soulmates, didn'tchaknow), I can understand not wanting to be a part of those desires in your partner if it is opposite of your own desires. It was never an issue for me, but I can understand a wife not wishing to see her husband be humiliated. I can understand a submissive not willing to watch her dominant fulfill those fantasies of his/her own. I can understand a dominant not wishing to cross the lines into affection and otherwise "normal" relationships with their submissives. I don't feel the same way, but I understand it. It's a difficult balance to maintain and not for everyone. This makes total sense to me, because that participation can really upset the balance of your other relationships with a person.

However, to say "Ew, he's submissive, I like my men STRONG!" is really missing something for me, mostly because I see many women comment on how they are strong, able individuals despite their willingness to submit, yet cannot embrace or accept that in men. It isn't a gender-specific trait, yet many make it so. Only WOMEN are allowed to be submissive yet still be strong. That mentality reeks of insecurity to me.

Heck, a man willing to be humiliated and submissive and still be self confident able people who love themselves are a heck of a lot stronger than most give them credit for. It's the men who have those desires and refuse to embrace them for fear of how the women in their lives with view them that borders on a form of weakness that I personally find unattractive. Who is really the dominant in that situation?

Hello Again Serijules:

I have wanted to answer your second post to me for a few days now, but have been, well, how shall I say. . .”preoccupied”. (What can I say; I just discovered this ‘online RP’ thing, so have been acting like a kid on Christmas morning all week!)

Anyhow, I once again was blown away by the humanity and astuteness in your words—you seem refreshingly sane—and wanted to comment on a couple points:

1.
“Only WOMEN are allowed to be submissive yet still be strong. That mentality reeks of insecurity to me.”
2.
“Heck, a man willing to be humiliated and submissive and still be self confident able people who love themselves are a heck of a lot stronger than most give them credit for.”

Your observations are so right on and glaringly obvious to my way of thinking, that it just boggles my mind that these ideas are so imperceptible (or perhaps ‘unacceptable’?) to most folks. I know for a fact that my ability to relax into and enjoy my kinks (as covered previously) has risen and fallen throughout my life in direct proportion to my general, overall level of confidence at various times. The ability to check one’s ego at the door to the extent that a sub must learn to do to really get going actually requires tremendous independence, self-reliance and confidence. And of course in the non-sexual arenas of life, I have learned over the years that bellicosity and aggression are almost always symptoms of excessive insecurity.
And I hope this isn’t straying too far off the subject, but you have got me thinking now (damn you! Much attention has rightfully been paid to the life-distorting and stereotypical molds society has long insisted on forcing women into--whether they fit or not. And any time the mold did not fit (or was refused), the fault was assumed to lie with the woman, not the mold, and they were quickly slandered, marginalized, and denounced with the 'appropriate' label: "She is--a bitch, frigid, a slut, ambitious, ball-breaker, uppity, (your pejorative here.)"
What is not as widely appreciated I think, is that men are every bit as constrained and warped by the relentless imposition of societal norms upon their lives—whether they fit or not. For sure these molds are quite different in shape and style from those used to curtail and condemn female individuality, but they are no less restrictive, and no more forgiving.
As a lifelong blue-collar worker, I have long found the themes of what passes for appropriately 'masculine' behaviors, attitudes, and logic as some kind of bizarre cosmic joke. Quite often these themes resemble (at least to me) the same braggadocio and insecure posing you might expect of 12 year old boys in a junior-high locker room, doing their immature best to imitate what they imagine being a man is all about; Normal, perhaps even healthy in a 12 year old boy—tragic and unbearably tedious in a 50 year old man. Of course most men grow well beyond such silliness, but many don't, and it is these latter who so often set the parameters of conversation / debate / interaction, just by virtue of their being the 'lowest common denominator' in terms of intellectual and emotional maturity (they also constitute probably 98% of the Tea Party, but surely that is another discussion!)
Alright, enough already. Just wanted to say thanks for you thoughtful input. And I hope you don’t take this the wrong way—I’m not being a troll, and I am a happily married man of 20 years now—but honestly, your attitude is really quite sexy! Wish more people had it.

Groovy Monday to you!

Shawn