Writing Question

[hivirus555000]

I am currently writing a rather involved novel that will contain sex scenes but not be its main purpose and my question was this: How much description of any sex scenes is there before it is considered smut? or is there any limit because it is a sex scene? These planned scenes are not all romantic and/or sensual by the way. Can someone please give me some advice?

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Smut is smut...I'll know it when I see it or in this case read it.

What is smut may depend on the reader and a lot of readers like smut.

Is this book for posting here or are you thinking about eBooks or Standard Publishing?

 

[hivirus555000]

The idea was to have it published... like I said, its more than just a sex story... those scenes are just components in the story not the main plot or finale or whatever.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

The idea was to have it published... like I said, its more than just a sex story... those scenes are just components in the story not the main plot or finale or whatever.

Ah, good luck with that.

 

[SydneyBlake]

I am currently writing a rather involved novel that will contain sex scenes but not be its main purpose and my question was this: How much description of any sex scenes is there before it is considered smut? or is there any limit because it is a sex scene? These planned scenes are not all romantic and/or sensual by the way. Can someone please give me some advice?

One man's romance is another man's smut. It all depends on the reader.

Whether or not your story would be considered "erotica" depends on how important the sex is to the story. If you can "close the bedroom door" and it doesn't effect your story in the least, then the sex isn't important and could be left out. When writing erotica, however, you have to leave the bedroom door open for the reader; otherwise, the story suffers. Erotica, however, still has a plot, character development, etc. If it's just sex and nothing else, then you're reading/writing straight porn.

If it's something you wish to have published, then you have to do your homework about the various publishers. How steamy the sex scenes can be depends on their standards; you have to align your writing with the publisher's standards, or else find a publisher who appreciates your writing.

Someone who's actually been through the publishing process can shed more light on this than I.

 

[sr71plt]

I think how descriptive the sex scene is also plays into the "smut" factor (which really falls under the Supreme Court "I know it when I see it" heading in definition of what is smut and what isn't). If you graphical describe the journey of a penis in a passage, you are probably out of the mainstream.

I, for one, am trying to help establish the "literary porn" field. (And so far, it's selling better than my mainstream work.)

 

[soflabbwlvr]

I think how descriptive the sex scene is also plays into the "smut" factor (which really falls under the Supreme Court "I know it when I see it" heading in definition of what is smut and what isn't). If you graphical describe the journey of a penis in a passage, you are probably out of the mainstream.

I, for one, am trying to help establish the "literary porn" field. (And so far, it's selling better than my mainstream work.)

How do you define "literary porn?" What are the characteristics of stories in this genre?

 

[sr71plt]

How do you define "literary porn?" What are the characteristics of stories in this genre?

Oh, what would be literary in the mainstream, but with hyperactive sex being a legitimate theme that can be explored and the sex acts being explicit and graphic. I like to think that much of my erotica has the emotional character dilemma and complex plot that you find in the mainstream but when I get to the sex scene, I don't care of many would think it slipped over into porn.

It's akin to some of the A movies I see that stand on their own, but that I'd like to see the sex scenes in to be fully explicit.

 

[soflabbwlvr]

Oh, what would be literary in the mainstream, but with hyperactive sex being a legitimate theme that can be explored and the sex acts being explicit and graphic. I like to think that much of my erotica has the emotional character dilemma and complex plot that you find in the mainstream but when I get to the sex scene, I don't care of many would think it slipped over into porn.

It's akin to some of the A movies I see that stand on their own, but that I'd like to see the sex scenes in to be fully explicit.

I get it. A short story with more strokes per page than most "literary" entries. That's more or less what I have tried to with my more recent stories.

 

[sr71plt]

I get it. A short story with more strokes per page than most "literary" entries. That's more or less what I have tried to with my more recent stories.

And more explicit strokes, yes.

I fell into writing this in mainstream writing I'd been doing for years. A scene got carried away and I had to cut most of it out of the manuscript--but then I thought, hey, I like writing this no-holds-barred stuff, and I bet there are those who like reading it too.

 

[JayinCA]

A lot of mainstream fiction (and genre fiction) have very explicit sex scenes--and often many of them--and they're published by the major publishers, win great critical acclaim, etc. (or fail miserably and sink into obscurity).

Point is, write the best book you can, and include the sex scenes if they're germane to the plot. No publisher is going to pass on a good book that they think they can sell because of the explicit nature of certain scenes. If they think those scenes will be a problem, they'll ask you to alter or delete them. More likely, they'll be fine with them, because you wrote a book in which those scenes needed to happen.

If you're just adding them in for kicks, or because you think it'll sell the book better, then you might want to think twice. But if it's necessary to the plot and right for the characters, then go for it.

(And yes, I have been there).

 

[SydneyBlake]

And more explicit strokes, yes.

I fell into writing this in mainstream writing I'd been doing for years. A scene got carried away and I had to cut most of it out of the manuscript--but then I thought, hey, I like writing this no-holds-barred stuff, and I bet there are those who like reading it too.

Do you have a story here that you could cite as an example of your "more explicit" writing? Because the few that I've read, while good, of course, could have been more explicit, IMHO. But then again, I'm a perv, so maybe I'm not a good barometer.

I like your movie analogy, btw. I've often thought the same thing.

 

[sr71plt]

A lot of mainstream fiction (and genre fiction) have very explicit sex scenes--and often many of them--and they're published by the major publishers, win great critical acclaim, etc. (or fail miserably and sink into obscurity).

I've never read one with a sex scene as explicit as mine--or a protagonist that was an unapologetic satyriasis, for that matter.

And, as I already noted, I've never read one that described the sex scene stroke by stroke. There still are limitations in the mainstream.

 

[sr71plt]

I get it. A short story with more strokes per page than most "literary" entries. That's more or less what I have tried to with my more recent stories.

Both I and my coauthor, Sabb, have been playing both sides of this with works released in two forms.

My anthology Canine Connections is a mainstream version of the short stories in it put out in explicit sex form. (The separate hot stories have sold better than the combined milder anthology.)

Similarly Sabb and I write explicit sex works under the name Shabbu and mainstream under the name Stephen Kessel and some of them are the same work released in to heat levels, e.g., Shabbu's The Interview was also released in milder variation as Stephen Kessel's The Velvet Interrogation.

 

[JayinCA]

I've never read one with a sex scene as explicit as mine--or a protagonist that was an unapologetic satyriasis, for that matter.

And, as I already noted, I've never read one that described the sex scene stroke by stroke. There still are limitations in the mainstream.

Try Samuel R. Delany's science fiction masterpiece "Dhalgren," or his even more explicit "The Mad Man." Nicholson Baker has made a cottage industry lately of writing what are essentially stroke books for the literati. Under a different name, I wrote a horror novel published by Penguin that had a blowjob scene, with cum swallowing.

 

[sr71plt]

Try Samuel R. Delany's science fiction masterpiece "Dhalgren," or his even more explicit "The Mad Man." Nicholson Baker has made a cottage industry lately of writing what are essentially stroke books for the literati. Under a different name, I wrote a horror novel published by Penguin that had a blowjob scene, with cum swallowing.

Thanks. I'll have to check that out.

 

[beatrice_dreams]

Most of the mainstream romance novels I smuggled from my Mom's bedside table as a teenager were filled with loads of racy scenes. You could just flick through and stop when your eye caught on words like 'thigh' and 'turgid member' and you were bang in the middle of something naughty.

I think a lot of it depends on how 'soft' the language is - if you don't use words that will shock the average housewife it appears you can get away with pretty much anything...

(though saying, that, I doubt there is much non-consensual-vampire-incest in the average romance novel...)

 

[lovecraft68]

Oh, what would be literary in the mainstream, but with hyperactive sex being a legitimate theme that can be explored and the sex acts being explicit and graphic. I like to think that much of my erotica has the emotional character dilemma and complex plot that you find in the mainstream but when I get to the sex scene, I don't care of many would think it slipped over into porn.

It's akin to some of the A movies I see that stand on their own, but that I'd like to see the sex scenes in to be fully explicit.

Yeah I've been doing that for awhile, there's really not much on here (certainly in the incest category) that could top me for depth and scope. However, the fact that it is still at the end of the day an incest story, tends to work against it. "Mainstream" would never embrace it.

In fact a fair portion of the incest crowd won't either because it's well; I think one of my first private feed backs says it best.

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Comments:

Sibs. with benefits: too dark, too close to reality in its starkness and suffering. I.E., maybe well written but certainly no longer erotic, and indeed not something I wish to read in full.

*DO NOT hit the REPLY button to respond to this email.*

Oh well, at least I can never be accused of being a conformist.

 

[SydneyBlake]

Most of the mainstream romance novels I smuggled from my Mom's bedside table as a teenager were filled with loads of racy scenes. You could just flick through and stop when your eye caught on words like 'thigh' and 'turgid member' and you were bang in the middle of something naughty.

I think a lot of it depends on how 'soft' the language is - if you don't use words that will shock the average housewife it appears you can get away with pretty much anything...

(though saying, that, I doubt there is much non-consensual-vampire-incest in the average romance novel...)

You reminded me of when Jackie Collins' last novel came out, a local radio station played a game: callers would give a page number, if there was sex on that page, the caller won a prize.