Minimum Wage & Union Wages: You Pay for them...

[markfifa0791]

The cost of government do-goodism...



August 7, 2011
Balusters and Bureaucrats
By David Workman


The American Thinker

If he doesn't want to deal with the Historic Preservation Society he shouldn't have chosen a home in a historic district.

 

[Sean]

The cost of government do-goodism...



August 7, 2011
Balusters and Bureaucrats
By David Workman


The American Thinker

Funny how all these American Thinker pieces start with the "this happened to a friend of mine" line. If "Joyce" really did do as claimed, there would be a record, public meetings are minuted. But no, just more bullshit sophistry from AJ's RW rag of choice.

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

Always having to drag the conversation down to your level...

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

But, either that is inconsistent with your point so far or I am misunderstanding your point. The minimum wage is $7.25. If I want to hire someone but do not want to pay them $7.25 for their work and decide not to higher them, the minimum wage requirement does not drop to $0.

I feel like minimum wage is most likely not that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things. How many jobs do you think people would go for at less than $7.25? As you've said, it's not a livable wage. So how much are we really inflating things? And what is the effect on demand by giving low wage earners a few extra dollars?

The government is helping you to decide not to hire them or possibly hire them at a higher rate than the market dictates.

It depends on how many union contracts are indexed to the minimum wage, there's a REASON it was on Nancy's priority list in '07...

And how much is the wrong question to be asking when the proper question is how many paper cuts can my business withstand and still hire. Obama wants jobs, the Democrats are demanding jobs, the Liberals are angry at business owners who are not hiring, yet they do not see that their recent 4,000 lines of just a little slice, here a little cut, just another little nick...

Reasonable charges
Plus some little extras on the side!

Charge 'em for the lice, extra for the mice
Two percent for looking in the mirror twice
Here a little slice, there a little cut
Three percent for sleeping with the window shut
When it comes to fixing prices
There are a lot of tricks he knows
How it all increases, all them bits and pieces
Jesus! It's amazing how it grows!
Master of the House

 

[markfifa0791]

Well, regardless of the truth of the story, it's a bit anecdotal to be considered as validating a point of view.

 

[markfifa0791]

The government is helping you to decide not to hire them or possibly hire them at a higher rate than the market dictates.

It depends on how many union contracts are indexed to the minimum wage, there's a REASON it was on Nancy's priority list in '07...

And how much is the wrong question to be asking when the proper question is how many paper cuts can my business withstand and still hire. Obama wants jobs, the Democrats are demanding jobs, the Liberals are angry at business owners who are not hiring, yet they do not see that their recent 4,000 lines of just a little slice, here a little cut, just another little nick...

Reasonable charges
Plus some little extras on the side!

Charge 'em for the lice, extra for the mice
Two percent for looking in the mirror twice
Here a little slice, there a little cut
Three percent for sleeping with the window shut
When it comes to fixing prices
There are a lot of tricks he knows
How it all increases, all them bits and pieces
Jesus! It's amazing how it grows!
Master of the House

Wait, I thought if we just kept low taxes for the rich there would be plenty of jobs?

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

Well, regardless of the truth of the story, it's a bit anecdotal to be considered as validating a point of view.

...
When it comes to fixing prices
There are a lot of tricks he knows
How it all increases, all them bits and pieces
Jesus! It's amazing how it grows!

Thenardier



Which eco-political model allows you to own a business, but sets your costs, prices and production for you?

 

[Sean]

Always having to drag the conversation down to your level...

I just get tired of you c+ping the same tired old bullshit from the same tired old source every single day.

 

[NeverEndingMe]

this is the problem with unions!

1. follow only what the union tells them - union workers are mindless thugs
2. union workers could give a shit about what the consumer wants
3. union workers will never go out of their way for the consumer
4. union workers to sub par work
(the union worker is focused on the union, and not the consumer wants or demands)

Any company that has union workers is on a path of failure and bankruptcy

Some union guys will call other members "worms" if they do anything extra or beyond the limit of the contractual obligations to please the customer.

I'm not saying they should work for free....BUT...when the customer buys union there seems to be an expectation of not just quality work, but also going to some extra lengths for customersatisfaction, within limits of course.

 

[NeverEndingMe]

clearly the downgrade AA+, they shot across the obama bow. they are telling obama to get his head out of his ass, and grow up. obama needs to become a leader and stop playing in the mud (and by mud, I mean the shit field)

this could be a good thing, being downgraded. maybe our leaders will lead instead of focusing on sword fighting.

we all know that Pelosi has the biggest sword. and by sword I mean cock

The government is helping you to decide not to hire them or possibly hire them at a higher rate than the market dictates.

It depends on how many union contracts are indexed to the minimum wage, there's a REASON it was on Nancy's priority list in '07...

And how much is the wrong question to be asking when the proper question is how many paper cuts can my business withstand and still hire. Obama wants jobs, the Democrats are demanding jobs, the Liberals are angry at business owners who are not hiring, yet they do not see that their recent 4,000 lines of just a little slice, here a little cut, just another little nick...

Reasonable charges
Plus some little extras on the side!

Charge 'em for the lice, extra for the mice
Two percent for looking in the mirror twice
Here a little slice, there a little cut
Three percent for sleeping with the window shut
When it comes to fixing prices
There are a lot of tricks he knows
How it all increases, all them bits and pieces
Jesus! It's amazing how it grows!
Master of the House

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

Wait, I thought if we just kept low taxes for the rich there would be plenty of jobs?

If you think, as you have demonstrated, only in terms of taxes as a dollar amount or seen rate then you might think, they have low taxes, but then you add in the cost of government and you see that their "taxes" are neither easy or tolerable...

"Little else is requisite to carry a state to the highest degree of opulence from the lowest barbarism but peace, easy taxes, and a tolerable administration of justice: all the rest being brought about by the natural course of things."
Adam Smith

"It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience."
CS Lewis

"Who can seriously doubt . . . that the power which a multi-millionaire, who may be my neighbor and perhaps my employer, has over me is very much less than that which the smallest [bureaucrat] possess who wields the coercive power of the state and on whose discretion it depends whether and how I am to be allowed to live or to work?"
FA Hayek

"We know that the number of government jobs has been increasing steadily, and that the number of applicants is increasing still more rapidly than the number of jobs. … Is this scourge about to come to an end? How can we believe it, when we see that public opinion itself wants to have everything done by that fictitious being, the state, which signifies a collection of salaried bureaucrats? … Very soon there will be two or three of these bureaucrats around every Frenchman, one to prevent him from working too much, another to give him an education, a third to furnish him credit, a fourth to interfere with his business transactions, etc., etc. Where will we be led by the illusion that impels us to believe that the state is a person who has an inexhaustible fortune independent of ours?
Frédéric Bastiat




Now, let me ask you, when you "tax" the rich, when government taxes you, do you just eat it, or do you stop hiring or raise prices? Are your goods and services being consumed mostly by the rich, the middle-class, or the poor?

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

I just get tired of you c+ping the same tired old bullshit from the same tired old source every single day.

And who here has not tired of your nastiness in all things?

Leave me alone. Go torment your neighbors...

 

[markfifa0791]

clearly the downgrade AA+, they shot across the obama bow. they are telling obama to get his head out of his ass, and grow up. obama needs to become a leader and stop playing in the mud (and by mud, I mean the shit field)

this could be a good thing, being downgraded. maybe our leaders will lead instead of focusing on sword fighting.

we all know that Pelosi has the biggest sword. and by sword I mean cock

How is this Obama's fault? Boehner and the conservative extremists he has been catering to pushed this way too far to be considered reasonable. And when you don't have reasonable people in charge, it makes sense to be wary of them being able to pay their bills. There is no question Democrats conceded too much, in an effort to make sure something got passed, and Republicans took advantage.

I love how when Obama asserts leadership and passes legislation despite dissenting views he gets railed for being too liberal and uncompromising. Then when he compromises he gets railed for not being a leader.

 

[Sean]

And who here has not tired of your nastiness in all things?

Leave me alone. Go torment your neighbors...

Leave you alone? No, not while you continue to post lies, rw polemic that you don't even understand and while you remain the biggest hypocrite on Lit.

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

Bloomberg and Schumer say, we have clean water!




EPA says, not clean enough.

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/beaver...-hurting-families-at-the-tap/?singlepage=true

JUST another paper cut. Just like the minimum wage...

And yet, it's the greed of the rich, it's Republicans, it's the TEA PARTY...,
__________________
"We know that the number of government jobs has been increasing steadily, and that the number of applicants is increasing still more rapidly than the number of jobs. … Is this scourge about to come to an end? How can we believe it, when we see that public opinion itself wants to have everything done by that fictitious being, the state, which signifies a collection of salaried bureaucrats? … Very soon there will be two or three of these bureaucrats around every Frenchman, one to prevent him from working too much, another to give him an education, a third to furnish him credit, a fourth to interfere with his business transactions, etc., etc. Where will we be led by the illusion that impels us to believe that the state is a person who has an inexhaustible fortune independent of ours?
Frédéric Bastiat

 

[Wok]

PM site has been revamped. Nice design they got going there.

 

[smallgirl]

~~~

I like tiny, fragile, petite, 'small girls' are you on the market?

There is a bit of a contradiction in your theme song, if your union is so good for you, but your wages are barely above minimum wage, why do you pay Union Dues?

Every employer cares about their employees, like a three legged stool, take away a leg and it falls, employees are part of the equation.

In a free country, one has the right to form and join a Union. One does not have the right to force others to join, which is where Right to Work States come into play.

Federal and State projects demand Union wages, which means thousands of people would operate heavy machinery at X dollars per hour but government must hire those who demand 3X dollars per hour, this impoverishes the economy, enriches the Unions, who then use your Dues to argue for even higher wages and benefits while the common man, the non union guy, is left without work.

You sound sincere, but that does not mean you are right. Unions are and always have been a bad thing for a free society. They act to limit access to jobs and increase the cost of production of all goods and services. That is why manufacturing has outsourced and will continue to do so until the power of the Unions is brought under control.

Amicus

i did not say all Unions were great. you did.

i pointed out that they couldnt all be lumped together as so wonderful...there are some great Unions in this country. mine isnt. but its good enough i would not work where i do without it.

i simply stated that we need a better one. we dont get the high wages and health coverage the big auto maker unions do.

warren buffett owns our company and we all know his worth.

we work on production pay, and the older women who work there, they simply cant make a decent wage. luckily i do. i am younger than them by 20 yrs. in better shape, and i work my ass off.



i use to work for the same kind of company 20 yrs ago as i do now. they closed up and moved to the Honduras after NAFTA passed. they were a non union company.

they since have filed bankruptcy.... what comes around goes around.

i have my job still, even after NAFTA, due to my union. thank god for that.

NAFTA helped kill this country. the Unions didnt. this country was built on the backs of the manufacturing workers. we will never be strong again unless we get those jobs back.


you have your opinion, i have mine.

and no...i am not on the market...and never will be for people like you.

 

[Wok]

i did not say all Unions were great. you did.

i pointed out that they couldnt all be lumped together as so wonderful...there are some great Unions in this country. mine isnt. but its good enough i would not work where i do without it.

i simply stated that we need a better one. we dont get the high wages and health coverage the big auto maker unions do.

warren buffett owns our company and we all know his worth.

we work on production pay, and the older women who work there, they simply cant make a decent wage. luckily i do. i am younger than them by 20 yrs. in better shape, and i work my ass off.



i use to work for the same kind of company 20 yrs ago as i do now. they closed up and moved to the Honduras after NAFTA passed. they were a non union company.

they since have filed bankruptcy.... what comes around goes around.

i have my job still, even after NAFTA, due to my union. thank god for that.

NAFTA helped kill this country. the Unions didnt. this country was built on the backs of the manufacturing workers. we will never be strong again unless we get those jobs back.


you have your opinion, i have mine.

and no...i am not on the market...and never will be for people like you.

They have unions in Kentucky?

 

[rosco rathbone]

And yet, it's the greed of the rich, it's Republicans, it's the TEA PARTY...,

You're like the lone fireman with a water pistol, standing athwart the raging inferno of the oncoming class war, yelling stop.

 

[markfifa0791]

If you think, as you have demonstrated, only in terms of taxes as a dollar amount or seen rate then you might think, they have low taxes, but then you add in the cost of government and you see that their "taxes" are neither easy or tolerable...

"Little else is requisite to carry a state to the highest degree of opulence from the lowest barbarism but peace, easy taxes, and a tolerable administration of justice: all the rest being brought about by the natural course of things."
Adam Smith

"It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience."
CS Lewis

"Who can seriously doubt . . . that the power which a multi-millionaire, who may be my neighbor and perhaps my employer, has over me is very much less than that which the smallest [bureaucrat] possess who wields the coercive power of the state and on whose discretion it depends whether and how I am to be allowed to live or to work?"
FA Hayek

"We know that the number of government jobs has been increasing steadily, and that the number of applicants is increasing still more rapidly than the number of jobs. … Is this scourge about to come to an end? How can we believe it, when we see that public opinion itself wants to have everything done by that fictitious being, the state, which signifies a collection of salaried bureaucrats? … Very soon there will be two or three of these bureaucrats around every Frenchman, one to prevent him from working too much, another to give him an education, a third to furnish him credit, a fourth to interfere with his business transactions, etc., etc. Where will we be led by the illusion that impels us to believe that the state is a person who has an inexhaustible fortune independent of ours?
Frédéric Bastiat




Now, let me ask you, when you "tax" the rich, when government taxes you, do you just eat it, or do you stop hiring or raise prices? Are your goods and services being consumed mostly by the rich, the middle-class, or the poor?

That argument can't go very far though, because using only that rationale life as a business owner would be better with no taxes whatsoever. Taxes are required in order to maintain infrastructure and have a functioning society, or are you saying that's not true? If it is true, there is an acceptable level of taxation which still allows for growth. It is not as if if taxes were lowered continually I would just keep hiring and producing; demand has to be there. It is also not as if just because taxes are lower the wealthy spend more because they have this extra cash burning a hole in their pocket. Also, there is basically no correlation between taxation and GDP growth, which is in the end what we are looking for I think. My goods and services are consumed mostly by middle to upper-middle class but I don't think that would change if tax rates on the wealthy were lower.

 

[markfifa0791]

Yes, some of the Tea Party is a little insane. Anyone who is ok with the U.S. defaulting is not in touch with reality.

 

[rosco rathbone]

Taxes are required in order to maintain infrastructure and have a functioning society,.

Oh no you don't! That's a camel's nose sliding down the slippery slope of an entering wedge, destination statism.

 

[smallgirl]

everyone has their own opinions of whats wrong with this country. i just dont think Unions are part of the problem.
there are so many things that are broke with America.
it started with Clinton, with NAFTA. kept going with Bush...and poor Obama..he inherited all of the mess.
he has done some things i dont agree with...bailing out the auto companys, the banks etc.
that wasnt the fix to our problems. but, we elected him, and he did it.
it took alot of years to get in this mess...it will take longer than one term to fix.
i personally dont think its fixable. i think this is the way our country will be from now on.

this is our new reality folks.

 

[smallgirl]

They have unions in Kentucky?

several

 

[markfifa0791]

Oh no you don't! That's a camel's nose sliding down the slippery slope of an entering wedge, destination statism.

Huh? Really?