Why we should embrace the end of human spaceflight?

KingOrfeo

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The question mark is mine -- I've always been pro-spaceflight, but the commentator is one I take seriously and has some solid points.

From Salon:

Tuesday, Apr 12, 2011 07:01 ET

Why we should embrace the end of human spaceflight
If God wanted us to live in outer space, we wouldn't have inner ears


By Michael Lind

This week NASA is announcing where the soon-to-be-retired space shuttles will be displayed as museum relics. On April 19 the space shuttle Endeavor will be launched, on the penultimate mission of the program. The end of the space shuttle program will mean that the U.S. will have to rely on Russian rockets to deliver American astronauts to space, pending the development of private commercial spaceflight.

It is tempting to say that this is an outrage; that the effective end of the American manned spaceflight program is a national humiliation; that the program's demise is yet another symbol of the gap in mentality between the confident, ambitious Kennedy-Johnson years and today's solipsistic, penny-pinching America. It is tempting to say all that, but the temptation should be resisted.

The truth is that the American space program is flourishing. In recent years Mars has been visited by the Phoenix lander and the Mars rovers, Spirit and Opportunity. At the moment the Messenger probe is orbiting Mercury and the New Horizons probe is scheduled to pass Pluto in 2015. With the help of the orbiting Kepler space telescope, more than 500 planets in other solar systems have been identified. We live in the greatest age of cosmic exploration in history, even if the public pays little attention because there are no astronauts to engage in white-knuckle landings or to clown around for the cameras.

When the Apollo astronauts landed on the moon, many assumed that this was the first step toward permanent colonization of the moon and journeys by astronauts to other planets. From today's perspective, though, the space race was like the races to the North Pole and the South Pole. Once explorers had reached those destinations, the world lost interest.

Another parallel is ocean exploration. Back in the 1960s, visions of colonies on the moon competed with plans for domed cities on the ocean floor that gave a new meaning to the phrase "real estate bubble." Scientific exploration of the ocean depths continues to produce marvelous discoveries, like whole ecosystems that have evolved to take advantage of the heat and emissions of undersea volcanic vents. But the year 2000 came and went and millions of homeowners are "underwater" only in metaphor.

The parallel is not complete, of course. The poles and the ocean depths are far more hospitable to human life than near Earth orbit or the moon or Mars. Astronauts have learned that prolonged weightlessness does terrible things to the bones and the circulatory system. If God wanted us to live in outer space, we wouldn't have balancing systems in our inner ears. When and if the science-fiction alternative of providing a simulacrum of gravity by spinning a spaceship or space station is tried, let us hope there will be a plentiful supply of barf bags.

The worst enemies of human spaceflight are its proponents. Their arguments are so weak that you keep waiting for the real, knock-down argument, which never comes.

The success of robot space probes has discredited the idea that machines are too stupid to do science in space. When that argument for human spaceflight collapses, those that remain are preposterous.

One is the assertion that life has always sought out new environments. Just as plants and animals moved from the seas to the land, it is said, so humanity must transcend the boundaries of the Earth.

This is just silly. Animals never leave a comfortable habitat for a harsh one, unless they are forced to. That is why we don't see buffalo, raccoons and turtles marching off to Death Valley in great numbers to test their mettle, in a spirit of adventure.

Our vertebrate ancestors did not come ashore hundreds of millions of years ago because they decided to boldly go where no fish had gone before. Instead, generations of proto-amphibians in shallow water got stranded in separated ponds. The ones that were accidentally equipped to survive by desperately gulping air survived long enough to breed, and here we and our fellow land animals are. No lungfish congress would have voted to colonize dry land.

Equally silly is the comparison between the exploration of America by Europeans and the exploration of outer space. The Americas had native people to be enslaved by greedy Europeans, abundant resources and lots of pleasant places to live -- to say nothing of breathable air and drinkable water. That's why the European powers fought to control the Western Hemisphere, while ignoring the continent of Antarctica.

What about the argument that part of the human race needs to dwell somewhere other than on Earth, if humanity is to avoid extinction? In 500 million years the gradually warming sun may boil the oceans, and a few billion years later the sun will evolve into a red giant, incinerating or engulfing the Earth. Our descendants, if there are any, might consider relocating.

In the half-billion years until then, the chances of war, plague or global warming producing the total extinction of a species as numerous, widespread and versatile as humanity are pretty low. A sufficiently large asteroid or comet impact like the one that caused the extinction of the dinosaurs could do the job. But if a massive bolide threatened the Earth, we would send unmanned spacecraft, not Robert Duvall or Bruce Willis, to steer it away or destroy it.

In the event some other natural catastrophe -- a supervolcano, a nearby supernova -- rendered the surface of the Earth temporarily or permanently uninhabitable, it would be cheaper and easier to build and maintain underground bunkers than to use the same technology to do the same thing at vastly greater cost on the moon or other planets or in space stations. By the same token, if humanity had the technology to "terraform" the surface of Mars, it would have the power to make the ruined surface of a dead Earth habitable again, making the colonization of Mars unnecessary.

If there is no compelling argument for government-sponsored human spaceflight, there is no convincing rationale for private commercial spaceflight, either. The Robert Heinlein wing of science-fiction fandom has always combined Tea Party-style anti-statism with a love of big rockets. Now that the dead hand of the NASA bureaucracy is out of the way, will visionary billionaires inspired by Ayn Rand inaugurate a new age of commercial space travel for the masses?

Don't count on it. There might be a niche market for a few space-planes or rockets to take bored plutocrats into orbit for a joy ride. But investors would be wiser to invest in private bathyscaphes offering tours of the Mariana Trench. After 9/11, can anyone believe that the world's governments are going to foster a regime of laissez-faire toward private space shuttles that could be hijacked for suicide missions from orbit, or that might disintegrate over several time zones?

And then there is the problem noted by the late William F. Buckley Jr. Because of security precautions, he joked, the increase of speed with each new mode of transport is neutralized by waiting times. A plane is faster than a train or bus, but you have to get to the airport two hours in advance. A spaceplane might take you across the continent in an hour -- but you would have to arrive at the spaceport the day before.

In the next few generations there will probably be more human spaceflight on a small scale. In time there might even be tiny teams of scientists in orbit, on the moon or other planets, like those in Antarctica. But for the foreseeable future space exploration will be undertaken mainly by machines that don't horrify a watching world when they die slowly, with no hope of rescue.

The epitaph for the dream of human travel to outer space might be borrowed from Samuel Johnson's verdict on a natural monument, the Giant's Causeway, in Ireland. It is worth seeing, he said, but it is not worth going to see.

Well? Do you see anything here that he doesn't?
 
Jetson'sIf we don't keep going into space, how can we live like the Jetson's?
 
Commercial as well as government spaceflight has it's value. There is scientific and medical research that can be done in space that can't be done on earth. And there are also military aspects.

Also we are explorers....and because we can.

I can think of a lot of things we waste money on. In my opinion this is not one of them. But it's just an opinion.
 
"If there is no compelling argument for government-sponsored human spaceflight, there is no convincing rationale for private commercial spaceflight, either."



The above is bullshit. There's plenty of rationale for government spaceflight, namely, national security. The weaponization of space is inevitable. Only liberals believe our enemies are benevolent.

It is not inevitable, because it is not practical. From David Szondy's Tales of Future Past:

One of the great arguments for selling the space programme to the American People was that if they didn't conquer space, then someone else would and that someone would use space to start lobbing atomic bombs back at the Free World. Collier's magazine ran a major series on World War III that warned of the danger of Soviet missile bases on the Moon attacking a defenceless Earth, and the film Destination Moon claimed that the Moon had to be conquered because the nation that controls the Moon controls the world.

It wasn't just speculation either. Back in the 1950s, the prospect of an atomic Pearl Harbour from space was taken seriously by the Eisenhower administration and was one of the reasons why the launch of Sputnik in 1957 was so harrowing. It wasn't just that the Soviets had stolen a march on the West, but that they might have gained the nuclear high ground first.

At first glance, the idea of space-based weapons, whether on the Moon or in Earth orbit, seems logical enough. The bomber had revolutionised warfare; allowing armies to launch assaults out of sight of one another and made cities vulnerable to massive attacks. Space, by extension, should provide an even greater advantage. Weapons could be set above their targets indefinitely and attacking one's enemy would be like dropping stones down a well. By contrast, attacking an orbital or lunar base would require fighting against the full force of the Earth's gravity and the vagaries of the weather.

Fortunately, neither the Moon nor Earth orbital bases turned out to offer any sort of advantage over surface-based missiles, which could strike targets quickly and accurately from silos or submarines yet were easily protected or hidden. Moon bases, on the other hand, were easily targeted, required very large rockets to deliver their bombs with any speed, and an attack took many hours or even days to execute. Orbital bombs were just as bad. Low orbiting bombs only passed over their targets occasionally and predictably, and being over target in a satellite is not like being in a bomber. The bomb still had to be got to Earth and that meant either a rocket engine as large as that of a surface-based missile or having your bomb spiral gently in with all the delays and problems that involves.

By 1967, the military of the superpowers had reached the conclusion that though space might be ideal for reconnaissance and communication, it was a dud as a staging area for nuclear attack and a treaty was signed banning nuclear weapons from a place where no one wanted to put them anyway; rendering the opening space scenes of 2001: a Space Odyssey with its orbital bombs obsolete before the prints even came back from the chemists.

There's just as much rationale for commercial spaceflight as there was a rationale for Columbus to set sail, or any other form of exploration; However fevered liberal minds bent on consuming all that is produced to support the non hacking, non productive strata of society, see no room for the freedom to engage in the enterprise of one's choosing.

We've already done the exploration -- enough to raise serious doubts about the viability of the next steps, exploitation and colonization. In economic terms, there's nothing in space to exploit that can't be gotten here cheaper. And the challenges of living in microgravity and outside Earth's atmosphere are much greater than anticipated.
 
Because no civilization out there would have us...

Personally, I'd rather the dollars go to space exploration than to the military but not enough humans have evolved to see that yet...

"The above is bullshit. There's plenty of rationale for government spaceflight, namely, national security. The weaponization of space is inevitable"

Leave it to Vetteman to believe we are the be all and end all to the universe :rolleyes:
 
The question mark is mine -- I've always been pro-spaceflight, but the commentator is one I take seriously and has some solid points.

From Salon:



Well? Do you see anything here that he doesn't?

I have been making the same arguments for months that Lind does in his article. And as one who has been sharply critical of some of his political articles you've posted here, I have to say that he has hit the bull's eye on this subject far better than I ever have.

Humans are piss poor measuring instruments within the space environment. Electronic data collector's on unmanned probes "see," "hear," "smell," and "feel" a far greater range of sensory input at a far lesser cost than man could ever hope.

If one is going to evaluate the worthiness of scientific investment (i. e. "exploration") on the basis of potential scientific return (i.e. "knowledge") then this one is a no-brainer. Unmanned vehicles make a stronger case for their use proportional to the distance the desired exploration takes place from Earth, up to a point where manned exploration is no longer a participant in the debate simply on the grounds of possibility.

Even within the realm of the possible, the question has to be asked, "what is the first man to stand on Mars going to tell you about that planet that we don't already know?"

Now that men from the United States and Russia have thoroughly demonstrated how to live and work in space, the technology is freely there for anyone else to copy. The least significant characteristic of future men working in space will most certainly be their ethnicity or national identity.

Continuing to place a national priority on manned spaceflight is to entertain a lust born of vanity while attempting to mask itself as some lesser embarrassing motivation.
 
Even within the realm of the possible, the question has to be asked, "what is the first man to stand on Mars going to tell you about that planet that we don't already know?"
That we went there.

I do believe that symbolic value is a real thing that is easy to dismiss.

What did the first man on the moon tell us about that place? There were some minor discoveries, sure, but they pale in comparison to the notion of "holy crap, there's a man on the moon!"

If that symbolic value is worth the cost? Comes down to two things: What's the cost, and who's paying?
 
"If there is no compelling argument for government-sponsored human spaceflight, there is no convincing rationale for private commercial spaceflight, either."



The above is bullshit. There's plenty of rationale for government spaceflight, namely, national security. The weaponization of space is inevitable. Only liberals believe our enemies are benevolent.

There's just as much rationale for commercial spaceflight as there was a rationale for Columbus to set sail, or any other form of exploration; However fevered liberal minds bent on consuming all that is produced to support the non hacking, non productive strata of society, see no room for the freedom to engage in the enterprise of one's choosing.

There is little to no additional exploration of space required to maintain our national security interests. In fact, both the United States and the former Soviet Union had programs years ago that utilized astronaut spies in low earth orbit. Both programs were abandoned when the advancement of spy satellite technology rather quickly rendered them obsolete.

The apogee of an ICBM Peacekeeper is about 500 miles -- well above that of the International Space Station. But there is nothing mysterious about the technology to get it up there or to survive the heat of re-entry as it plummets toward it's target.

More recent advancements in weapons systems have focused on how to get closer to the target (Predator drones) and under enemy radar (terrain hugging cruise missiles).

The future militarization of space (and not to mention warfare generally) will have far less to do with shooting at you and me personally as it will in taking out our communications and intelligence satellites on orbit. Those tactical and strategic issues will likely be solved in computer software inside the Pentagon. We won't need to send up John Glenn to pull the trigger.

As for civilian exploitation of space, no one is trying to hold anyone back. Supply and demand will rule that market in short order. Lind is simply arguing that there will ultimately be very little demand to drive supply. I believe he will be proved correct.
 
That we went there.

I do believe that symbolic value is a real thing that is easy to dismiss.

What did the first man on the moon tell us about that place? There were some minor discoveries, sure, but they pale in comparison to the notion of "holy crap, there's a man on the moon!"

If that symbolic value is worth the cost? Comes down to two things: What's the cost, and who's paying?

All I ask is that we be brutally honest with ourselves that "symbolic value" is essentially all we are getting out of the deal.

If we are, then I suspect that will thin the pool of potential buyers.
 
The weaponization of space is already here.:rolleyes:

Where?

What business is it if yours if free people decide to explore space with their own money, for either success or failure?

No objection to that, I enjoyed Heinlein's "The Man Who Sold the Moon" too; but, IRL, they won't, because there's no money in it. There's money in tourism, not in exploration.
 
Where?



No objection to that, I enjoyed Heinlein's "The Man Who Sold the Moon" too; but, IRL, they won't, because there's no money in it. There's money in tourism, not in exploration.

Not much money in space tourism either. One must get the cost of a launch down to a level where more than five people per year can afford the tour.

Nobody is going to fly "Spaceways" at $5.0 million per ticket, not when they find out that they can sit in a simulator and fly the same flight in virtual reality for $50.
 
No objection to that, I enjoyed Heinlein's "The Man Who Sold the Moon" too; but, IRL, they won't, because there's no money in it. There's money in tourism, not in exploration.
A common staple in sci-fi is how space will be colonized by corporations wanting to mine planets and asteroids.

It feeds into the stereotype we have of megacorps, but in reality, the scale is off. A lot of things would need to have been solved by others first, before anyone would kick in a commersial plan.
 
A common staple in sci-fi is how space will be colonized by corporations wanting to mine planets and asteroids.

It feeds into the stereotype we have of megacorps, but in reality, the scale is off. A lot of things would need to have been solved by others first, before anyone would kick in a commersial plan.

Sure, there's untapped mineral wealth on the Moon and in the asteroids. There's untapped mineral wealth in Antarctica, it remains untapped because it can't be mined profitably. But the problems of mining in an isolated subzero environment where you have to dig through a mile of ice to scratch the dirt are still less daunting than those of mining the Moon profitably. Wouldn't be worth it if the Moon were made of solid gold with petroleum seas.
 
"Human space flight", given a few more decades of socio-technological evolution might well be a moot point.

Our ability to control the human genome and advances in nanotechnology and cybernetics might well evolve to the point where humans will go into space as some kind of hybrid between human and machine. It's entirely conceivable that we might even be able to move an inidividual's mind (not the physical brain) to another physical entity.

Obviously, the human body isn't adapted for habitation of space, so why not evolve bodies so that they are - by some combination of synthetic mechanical elements and human genome - fit for low gravity, etc.? Just like Victorians would find modern ideas about sexually, race and religion entirely repulsive and un-human, our own contemporary revulsion against a post-human existence might be irrational.

The part about there is no reason for humans (or post-humans) to go into space defies the historical record of humankind. Humans need very little reason to do totally insane things. The Puritans didn't "need" to immigrate to America, which was their day's version of an alien world. The Spanish weren't forced to send explorers and conquistadores all over the planet. The body count on Mt. Everest climbs every year, but no one has ever had to climb Everest to look for his lost car keys.

Humans will go into space, humans will live there and we will colonise any part of the solar system we want, just because it is there. Although once it gets going there will be commercial and political and even spiritual reasons galore to accelerate to race to space.

The only real question is to define the definition of "human" and "humanity."
 
Humans will go into space, humans will live there and we will colonise any part of the solar system we want, just because it is there. Although once it gets going there will be commercial and political and even spiritual reasons galore to accelerate to race to space.

As the Lind article points out, the technology currently exists for man to colonize the ocean floor in odd "bubble" cities or colonies.

If prohibitive cost and pure common sense have prevented that circumstance, why would space colonization be any different?

When I was a kid I remember the prediction that flying, anti-gravity cars would be routinely buzzing around cities in defiance of any possible traffic jams. Like having to watch out for collisions in a 360 degree single spatial plane wasn't bad enough. We'd have to worry about traffic above and below as well. :rolleyes:
 
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This thread is kind of like being at Kitty Hawk watching the Wright Brothers do their stuff and some kid pulls on dad's coat sleeve and says, "gee, dad, maybe some day people will build really big aeroflyers that hold hundreds of people and fly them all around the planet, real fast.. ZOOOOM..."

"Naw," says Dad as he gets the model T-ford's hand crank out of the boot, "that ain't goin' to happen, son."
 
yj

There was a sci fi novel in the 70's about people with mobilty trouble relocating to the moon. As a wheelchair user the idea is seductive
 
This thread is kind of like being at Kitty Hawk watching the Wright Brothers do their stuff and some kid pulls on dad's coat sleeve and says, "gee, dad, maybe some day people will build really big aeroflyers that hold hundreds of people and fly them all around the planet, real fast.. ZOOOOM..."

"Naw," says Dad as he gets the model T-ford's hand crank out of the boot, "that ain't goin' to happen, son."

Replica of Wright brothers' 1910 plane crashes, 2 die

"Police identified the dead men as Don Gum, 73, and Mitchell Cary, 65, both from Ohio. The plane in Saturday's fatal crash, known as "Silver Bird," was a flyable look-alike of Wilbur and Orville Wright's first production aircraft, the Wright Model B Flyer. It was designed and built by volunteers from Wright 'B' Flyer Inc., a nonprofit organization based at Dayton-Wright Brothers Airport in Miami.

"Both pilots had extensive experience flying the biplane, built by a company that uses the planes to promote public awareness of Dayton as the birthplace of aviation. There have been at least four other crashes in last decade of replicas or reproduction Wright brothers planes, including one in the Dayton area that left a man seriously injured, Dayton Daily News reported."

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...0-plane-crashes-2-die/articleshow/9436552.cms
 
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