So, let's say that the right wing gets their way, and all education is privatized....

[bronzeage]

"Privatizing" the education of our youth is an important first step in the Republican's "Long March" journey to do away with education altogether.

It's a well-known fact that a better educated populace tend to vote for Democratic candidates in elections, conversely, the most ignorant people in American tend to vote Republican (see also: amicus, eyer, miles, et al). As such, it's simply a matter of self-preservation for Republicans to do all they can to dismantle educational institutions.

It is a strange reversal. The Republican Party was once the home the Ivory Tower elitists. William F. Buckley may have been the last of the breed. Their great appeal was the idea they were smart and knew what to do about complicated problems. Somewhere along the line, they realized this was not enough to retain power, so they tried to gather the great middle class inside the tent. This meant pandering to middle class needs and desires.

The Republican ideal of the nuclear family, living in the suburbs where the wife was a home maker and the husband drove the family car to work in the city was born. This was followed up by the two car garage and mom had daily mobility.

Now the Republicans are stuck with their constituency and can't satisfy them. If they act responsibly and do what is needed, each of them will be charged with RINOality and lose to a more conservative Republican at the next election. If they keep their campaign promises, there will be no more middle class in a few years. It's a tough time to be a Republican.

 

[Joeybagadonuts]

Then what?

Will children still have to go to school, and if so, will you have to toss the argument of "private companies never made me buy anything" out the window?

What will the next corporate plan be? Will you go along with it after our countries' lack of proper education creates a caste system that will rival India's?

Should we instate more toll-roads run by corporations? What else should people have to pay for out of pocket? Clean water? Private prisons, where the community is forced to pay to keep the prisoners kept and fed, or else they're just released into the community? Perhaps people should have to pay for proper fire protection... or police protection.

Hell, that's a good throw-back that you guys would like a lot, seeing as the police really only serve to protect the rich now as it is, but they have to at least pay lip service to protecting poor communities...

George Carlin ~ The American Dream Pt 1

There’s a reason that education sucks and it’s the same reason that it will never ever be fixed. It’s never going to get better, don’t look for it so be happy with what you’ve got; because the owners of this country don’t want that.

I’m talking about the real owners now; the real owners, the big wealthy business interests that control things and make all the important decisions. Forget the politicians; the politicians are put there to give you the idea that you have freedom of choice.

You don’t, you have no choice. You have owners; they own you. They own everything; they own all the important land. They own and control the corporations. They’ve long since bought and paid for the senate, the congress, the state house, the city halls they’ve got the judges in their back pockets.

The own all the big media companies so they control just about all the news and information you get to hear. They got ya by the balls! They spend billions of dollars every year lobbying to get what they want. Well we know what they want; they want more for themselves and less for everybody else.

But I’ll tell you what they don’t want. They don’t want a population of citizens capable of critical thinking. They don’t want well informed, well educated people capable of critical thinking; they’re not interested in that. That doesn’t help them; that‘s against their interests.

They don’t want people smart enough to sit around the kitchen table and realize how badly they’re getting fucked by a system that threw them overboard 30 fucking years ago They don’t want that.

You know what they want? They want obedient workers; people who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork and just dumb enough to passively accept all these increasingly shittier jobs with the lower pay, the longer hours, reduced benefits, the end of overtime and the vanishing pension that disappears the minute you got to collect it.

Now they’re coming for your social security money. They want your fucking retirement money. They want it back so that they can give it to their criminal friends on Wall St. And you know something; they’ll get it. They’ll get it all from you sooner or later; because they own this fucking place. It’s a big club and you ain’t in it. You and I are not in the big club.

By the way it’s the same big club they use to beat you over the head all day long when they tell you what to believe; All day long in their meetings telling you what to believe, what to think and what to buy. The table is tilted folks; the game is rigged and nobody seems to notice, nobody seems to care.

Good honest hard working people, white collar blue collar it doesn’t matter what color shirt you have on. Good honest hard working people of modest means continue to elect these rich cock suckers who don’t give a fuck about them. They don’t give a fuck about you. They don’t care about you at all.

But nobody seems to notice, nobody seems to care and that’s what the owners count on; the fact that Americans will probably remain willfully ignorant of the red, white and blue dick that’s being jammed up their assholes every day. Because the owners in this country know the truth; it’s called the American dream because you have to be asleep to believe it.

 

[richard_daily]

George Carlin ~ The American Dream Pt 1

There’s a reason that education sucks and it’s the same reason that it will never ever be fixed. It’s never going to get better, don’t look for it so be happy with what you’ve got; because the owners of this country don’t want that.

I’m talking about the real owners now; the real owners, the big wealthy business interests that control things and make all the important decisions. Forget the politicians; the politicians are put there to give you the idea that you have freedom of choice.

You don’t, you have no choice. You have owners; they own you. They own everything; they own all the important land. They own and control the corporations. They’ve long since bought and paid for the senate, the congress, the state house, the city halls they’ve got the judges in their back pockets.

The own all the big media companies so they control just about all the news and information you get to hear. They got ya by the balls! They spend billions of dollars every year lobbying to get what they want. Well we know what they want; they want more for themselves and less for everybody else.

But I’ll tell you what they don’t want. They don’t want a population of citizens capable of critical thinking. They don’t want well informed, well educated people capable of critical thinking; they’re not interested in that. That doesn’t help them; that‘s against their interests.

They don’t want people smart enough to sit around the kitchen table and realize how badly they’re getting fucked by a system that threw them overboard 30 fucking years ago They don’t want that.

You know what they want? They want obedient workers; people who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork and just dumb enough to passively accept all these increasingly shittier jobs with the lower pay, the longer hours, reduced benefits, the end of overtime and the vanishing pension that disappears the minute you got to collect it.

Now they’re coming for your social security money. They want your fucking retirement money. They want it back so that they can give it to their criminal friends on Wall St. And you know something; they’ll get it. They’ll get it all from you sooner or later; because they own this fucking place. It’s a big club and you ain’t in it. You and I are not in the big club.

By the way it’s the same big club they use to beat you over the head all day long when they tell you what to believe; All day long in their meetings telling you what to believe, what to think and what to buy. The table is tilted folks; the game is rigged and nobody seems to notice, nobody seems to care.

Good honest hard working people, white collar blue collar it doesn’t matter what color shirt you have on. Good honest hard working people of modest means continue to elect these rich cock suckers who don’t give a fuck about them. They don’t give a fuck about you. They don’t care about you at all.

But nobody seems to notice, nobody seems to care and that’s what the owners count on; the fact that Americans will probably remain willfully ignorant of the red, white and blue dick that’s being jammed up their assholes every day. Because the owners in this country know the truth; it’s called the American dream because you have to be asleep to believe it.

And yet here we are, in 2012, with the right-wing / tea party demonizing public employees (who work for a living) and teachers (who are the foundation for the future of our country), and the have-nots (those damn "welfare mothers"!).

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

That ain't truth, motherfucker. That ain't the truth for a lot of people that you wish it to be who are leagues better than you were, are and ever will be. That's why you're online right now, talking shit.

I do know what your truth is, though...and it's all ugly, from balding head to fatty corn-encrusted foot.

Time to call a racist piece of shit a racist piece of shit.

Naaah. I believe most Americans wish the black race well, but there aint no saving them from themselves. Every day more of us finally get that it aint US its YOU.

 

[richard_daily]

Naaah. I believe most Americans wish the black race well, but there aint no saving them from themselves. Every day more of us finally get that it aint US its YOU.

Too bad that every year, more and more of YOU die out, and leave the rest of US without your racist attitudes... It must hurt to see your extinction of those with your attitudes happening right before your eyes...

 

[Joeybagadonuts]

And yet here we are, in 2012, with the right-wing / tea party demonizing public employees (who work for a living) and teachers (who are the foundation for the future of our country), and the have-nots (those damn "welfare mothers"!).

And all we can do is try to wake up the rest of the middle class to the red, white and blue dick that get shoved up their ass every day.

 

[IrezumiKiss]

Naaah. I believe most Americans wish the black race well, but there aint no saving them from themselves. Every day more of us finally get that it aint US its YOU.

Actually, most educated, compassionate and progressive human beings wish the human race well, regardless of color, creed or religion, gender and sexual orientation, despite continuous disagreements and misunderstandings.

Since you are none of the above — including the human being category, needless to say — you are definitely exempt from any and all expectations of you to adhere to the tenets of a person's being educated, compassionate and progressive.

Every day more of "you" finally get that you're old, you will feel your mortality and you will actualize the end part of that circle-of-life thing that Mufasa talked about in The Lion King, bringing joy and happiness not only to those of us who will be better off being rid of you pieces of shit using up breathable air, but also to the many earthworms and maggots and grubs and other lesser lifeforms that break down dead meat to enrich the soil and enable the fertilization of green, verdant, oxygenating growing things. Most of which will be a much more beautiful sight to behold than your lardy, pasty, nauseating ass.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Too bad that every year, more and more of YOU die out, and leave the rest of US without your racist attitudes... It must hurt to see your extinction of those with your attitudes happening right before your eyes...

But I have 10 grandchildren, and all are infected with my attitude! And you people make it so easy for me.

 

[IrezumiKiss]

But I have 10 grandchildren, and all are infected with my attitude! And you people make it so easy for me.

If they're from your bloodline, all ten of those poor kids are infected with shit swimming in their DNA that's much worse than just your attitude, unfortunately.

 

[richard_daily]

But I have 10 grandchildren, and all are infected with my attitude! And you people make it so easy for me.

I didn't know that humans could mate with sheep.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I didn't know that humans could mate with sheep.

The Encyclopedia Britannica cites you as the authority on the subject.

 

[richard_daily]

The Encyclopedia Britannica cites you as the authority on the subject.

Which one of your cousins/wives has a copy of EB?

 

[HermesVoice]

Hell no that is not what I am saying. Everybody has the opportunity to excel in life. It is the people around them that must set them on the right path.

I believe that in America that the family unit is being threatened and that is the reason we are slipping in the world. Among minorities and it is becoming more increasing in whites as well, there are too many children being born without a mother and a father in the home and this is starting to effect America as a whole and I believe test scores reflect this. Children with both parents in the house score better in tests unless the single parent makes a herculean effort or their are grandparents involved to raise their child right.

I have not really looked this up but I bet you can probably mark the decline of our performance in education with when it became socially acceptable to have children out of wed lock and not have both mother and father in the household.

Okay, so after all that, you've still not explained why it's unfair to compare Texas with Massachusetts.

Furthermore, if what you just wrote is true, why did you post in agreement with JAMESBJOHNSON's assertion that "Niggaz and Wetbacks is the real answer."

He said nothing about the break-up of the nuclear family. He said it was about racial identity, and you responded with this: "Well I was going to put it more pc, lol."

So is it about race? Or is at about other dynamics?

You know who does best in scores. Asians who still view children out of marriage as taboo and socially unacceptable and dishonorable.

What makes you think that the test scores of Asian students is a product of their cultural views of children out of wedlock? I mean, there are many, many differences between Asian culture and American - ESPECIALLY with regard to to the what, how, and why of education - so what makes you think as you do? Did you read a study somewhere or something?

But who knows I am just some cracker racist after all.

Well since I never said such a thing about you, I assume this is not directed at me.

And while I do appreciate your response to that post, I'd be more happy if you gave me your thoughts on my longer reply to you in post #25.

 

[HermesVoice]

four over a decade ehh, at a cost of 3.5 million. I will give you the seven though cause seven were removed.

You'll also want to include the 32 teachers who were shipped out with a 50k settlement.

Here's what's interesting though. The "Business Insider" article claims that unions present the obstacle to firing these teachers, but if you follow their link on "performance cases" you'll see that their case study was decided by a state panel ("Commission on Professional Competence") and then finally ruled on by the State Superior Court.

So how is it that the union is preventing this teacher from being fired? The case was reviewd by two state agencies, and they both agreed that the teacher should not be terminated.

Now I understand that giving these people their legal rights is a pain in the ass, but let's not pretend that workers in the private sector don't also have recourse to the law for wrongful termination.

Finally, what's REALLY funny in the original article is that the principal who wanted this woman gone didn't say she couldn't be fired. She said: "It is so difficult to dismiss or discipline veteran teachers."

In my experience she happens to be wrong on the latter, but the first part of her statement kills your claim that these teachers can't be fired. Even the principal who wanted the teacher gone never said such a thing. She tacitly acknowledged they could be fired. Only the LA Weekly and Business Insider took such a statement out of all this, and they constructed it from things that nobody actually said to them. (Which should probably tell you something about those two publications.)

Now, do you want to know the REAL culprit in all this? You'll find this at the very end of the article: "as reported recently in the Los Angeles Times, new teachers get tenure virtually automatically unless their principal objects. Yet the Times report showed that few principals are actively engaged in reviewing green teachers before giving them the nod for lifelong tenure." [emph. mine]

What this means is that the gate keepers aren't doing their jobs in the first place. Now if they're not working hard to terminate these ineffective teachers BEFORE they have tenure, what makes you think it's the unions and not lazy or incompetant principals who are allowing these teachers to remain AFTER they get tenure?

Yeah I love tax dollars at work. $500k a piece. Good way to spend that money. Maybe they could have hired 35 more teachers instead.

Well now you're just changing your argument. You initially defended the statement that "districts have it in their contract that bad teachers can't be fired."

Now you're saying they CAN, you just don't want to spend money that way.

So which is it?

 

[IrezumiKiss]

Which one of your cousins/wives has a copy of EB?

This is unfair, Rich. You know they're using the volumes to prop up the uneven pantry cabinets in the kitchen.

 

[richard_daily]

This is unfair, Rich. You know they're using the volumes to prop up the uneven pantry cabinets in the kitchen.

I figured that they were using them to replace the blocks that are keeping the Pinto on their front lawn up.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Okay, so after all that, you've still not explained why it's unfair to compare Texas with Massachusetts.

Furthermore, if what you just wrote is true, why did you post in agreement with JAMESBJOHNSON's assertion that "Niggaz and Wetbacks is the real answer."

He said nothing about the break-up of the nuclear family. He said it was about racial identity, and you responded with this: "Well I was going to put it more pc, lol."

So is it about race? Or is at about other dynamics?


What makes you think that the test scores of Asian students is a product of their cultural views of children out of wedlock? I mean, there are many, many differences between Asian culture and American - ESPECIALLY with regard to to the what, how, and why of education - so what makes you think as you do? Did you read a study somewhere or something?


Well since I never said such a thing about you, I assume this is not directed at me.

And while I do appreciate your response to that post, I'd be more happy if you gave me your thoughts on my longer reply to you in post #25.

The closer people live to the equator, the dummer they are. The smartest humans live tween the 30th and 60th parallels of longitude.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0001769.html

 

[kbate]

And education, is that not social, and determined by the social conditions under which you educate, by the intervention direct or indirect, of society, by means of schools, etc.? The democrats have not intended the intervention of society in education; they do but seek to alter the character of that intervention, and to rescue education from the influence of the wealthy class.

The Private Industry claptrap about the family and education, about the false correlation of parents and child, becomes all the more disgusting, the more, by the action of private industry, all the family ties among the poor are torn asunder, and their children transformed into simple articles of commerce and instruments of labor.

All children should be educated in public schools operated by the state and all home education or parental choice should be removed from education. Only thus, can children be freed from the oppression of class.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

There Are No Poor Democrat Politicians.

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

Then what?

Will children still have to go to school, and if so, will you have to toss the argument of "private companies never made me buy anything" out the window?

What will the next corporate plan be? Will you go along with it after our countries' lack of proper education creates a caste system that will rival India's?

Should we instate more toll-roads run by corporations? What else should people have to pay for out of pocket? Clean water? Private prisons, where the community is forced to pay to keep the prisoners kept and fed, or else they're just released into the community? Perhaps people should have to pay for proper fire protection... or police protection.

Hell, that's a good throw-back that you guys would like a lot, seeing as the police really only serve to protect the rich now as it is, but they have to at least pay lip service to protecting poor communities...

Which part of the right wing wants it all privatized?

There's only the part that wants it un-nationalized...

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

There are a lot of ignorant hateful voices in this thread flailing away at straw men and new-age windmills...

 

[richard_daily]

Which part of the right wing wants it all privatized?

There's only the part that wants it un-nationalized...

Education is nationalized?

That's dumb, even for you.

 

[HermesVoice]

The closer people live to the equator, the dummer they are. The smartest humans live tween the 30th and 60th parallels of longitude.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0001769.html

I don't mind you joining the conversation, but you'll need to offer something rather more thoughtful.

In any case, you should perhaps be taking this up with GreatGreg. He now appears to disagree with your position.

 

[Ham Murabi]

Should we instate more toll-roads run by corporations? What else should people have to pay for out of pocket? Clean water? .

If you get a water bill, you're already paying out of pocket for clean water, moron.

 

[HermesVoice]

Which part of the right wing wants it all privatized?

There's only the part that wants it un-nationalized...

There's also the part of the right wing that doesn't recognize hyperbole for rhetorical effect.