So, let's say that the right wing gets their way, and all education is privatized....

[richard_daily]

Then what?

Will children still have to go to school, and if so, will you have to toss the argument of "private companies never made me buy anything" out the window?

What will the next corporate plan be? Will you go along with it after our countries' lack of proper education creates a caste system that will rival India's?

Should we instate more toll-roads run by corporations? What else should people have to pay for out of pocket? Clean water? Private prisons, where the community is forced to pay to keep the prisoners kept and fed, or else they're just released into the community? Perhaps people should have to pay for proper fire protection... or police protection.

Hell, that's a good throw-back that you guys would like a lot, seeing as the police really only serve to protect the rich now as it is, but they have to at least pay lip service to protecting poor communities...

 

[rosco rathbone]

They don't want to truly privatize it. It's just another way to suck off the government teat, via vouchers and such. Funneling taxpayer money to the connected.

 

[richard_daily]

They don't want to truly privatize it. It's just another way to suck off the government teat, via vouchers and such. Funneling taxpayer money to the connected.

So basically, they want it to be like the insurance industry, the health care industry, the air travel industry, and the defense industry then? After all, everyone is happy with how all of those operate these days, aren't they?

 

[naughtycakes]

They don't want to truly privatize it. It's just another way to suck off the government teat, via vouchers and such. Funneling taxpayer money to the connected.

Yep. And a great way to fuck the teachers. It's pretty much happened already where I live.

We have charter schools here for everything - privately run with government funds - and the teachers get fucked.

 

[richard_daily]

Yep. And a great way to fuck the teachers. It's pretty much happened already where I live.

We have charter schools here for everything - privately run with government funds - and the teachers get fucked.

The students get fucked too, when the administration embezzles funds, as happens very often with charter schools...

 

[rosco rathbone]

So basically, they want it to be like the insurance industry, the health care industry, the air travel industry, and the defense industry then? After all, everyone is happy with how all of those operate these days, aren't they?

Yeah....

"Privatize", bust the unions, cut costs, pass the juice along to the shareholders, and then pay off politicians to jigger the standards so that it appears the kids are getting a modicum of book learnin.

How's that parking meter scheme working out in the windy city?

 

[richard_daily]

Yeah....

"Privatize", bust the unions, cut costs, pass the juice along to the shareholders, and then pay off politicians to jigger the standards so that it appears the kids are getting a modicum of book learnin.

How's that parking meter scheme working out in the windy city?

Don't even get me started on that bullshit.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I expect this to happen: Entrepreneurs will package online education packages and include CDs, DVDs, etc to supplement the online material. They will also provide state of the art labs etc so kids can get practical experience. Local school boards will pay for the instruction.

School boards will save 100s of millions on teacher pay and benefits, and strikes, and litigation. And Shameeka can stay home with Granny and pester her.

 

[naughtycakes]

The students get fucked too, when the administration embezzles funds, as happens very often with charter schools...

Yeah, basically they're turning the U.S. into PRI-run Mexico.

It's not just schools, it's an entire ideology, padding the system with political cronies instead of civil servants.

 

[rosco rathbone]

Yeah, basically they're turning the U.S. into PRI-run Mexico.

It's not just schools, it's an entire ideology, padding the system with political cronies instead of civil servants.

Great fucking book:

Jeff Faux: The Global Class War

Opened my eyes about the links between the Mexican and US elites.

 

[naughtycakes]

Great fucking book:

Jeff Faux: The Global Class War

Opened my eyes about the links between the Mexican and US elites.

Nice, thanks, will have to check it out.

Mexico is really fascinating to me, politically and culturally speaking. The PRI did such a number on Mexico, it's crazy to think how they managed to be the only country in Latin America who celebrated their indigenous culture and faux-socialism while the oligarchs kept an iron grip on the system through the unions.

Also, I love the EZLN, best faux-guerrilla group out there, and Subcomandante Marcos... you can't write that stuff!

 

[GreatGreg]

Posting this from another thread cause I don't feel like writing it all over again. I did add a couple paragraphs at the end though.


That is why I live where I do. Public schools and small town life where the teachers are hand picked to come to teach. No unions or bullshit either. If you can't cut it off you go and thanks for trying. Public education at its finest. 20 kids to a class and if they get any more they split the classes up. My step daughter came to live with us two years ago (4th grade) and they immediately found out she was struggling with math and had her getting extra time with tutors and teacher time within a week or two of the start of school year. Last year she was only 1 percentage point from making honor roll. Math again but her teacher for next year has already called me to talk about getting that grade up for next year and what we are going to need to do. Can you get that kind of service from a blue state union school district. I think not your kid is just another number.

She came from the Vegas school system with their 32 kids (closer to 40 this year) to a class and she was failing pretty much everything. Hell the teacher didn't even know she was stuffing her homework in her desk and "forgetting" about it till they cleaned out her desk at the end of the year and found about 4 months of uncompleted homework stuffed in there. You would think a teacher would notice that she was not turning anything in and tell her dad. Dad says he knew nothing about it but I don't really think he was hands on anyways. Property taxes actually went down last year too and we just got a new football field when other districts are laying people off. Also we just built a brand new elementary school the year before. Makes you wonder what is wrong with some systems and why can't they handle there business.

I do blame the unions, just for the fact that you cannot get rid of bad teachers who are just collecting their pay checks till their pensions kick in. Seniority over performance, please cry me a river. I do agree that they need to evaluate performance on like minded schools though cause there is a difference between the performance of inner city schools and a school in the suburbs catering to the middle class. You are going to get better performance out of the suburbs school but that doesn't mean that the inner city school teachers should get a free pass at being bad teachers. You should be able to fire them if they do not cut the mustard no matter what theor seniority is.

The upper class sends their kids to private school anyways and why shouldn't they be allowed to do so. If they want to pay for it more power to them. Wealth does bring privileges people, maybe instead of bitching more people should strive to become wealthy.

Maybe if you can actually fire some of these bad apple teachers things might improve and the public might not get so pissed about unions in the schools. Bring drugs to school or break any other rules, it is alright we will just put you in a "rubber room" and let you collect your full pay for a few years till the schools are finally able to fire you after they jump through about 50 hoops. I call bullshit on that and if you don't then you don't really care about the kids.

 

[richard_daily]

Posting this from another thread cause I don't feel like writing it all over again. I did add a couple paragraphs at the end though.


That is why I live where I do. Public schools and small town life where the teachers are hand picked to come to teach. No unions or bullshit either. If you can't cut it off you go and thanks for trying. Public education at its finest. 20 kids to a class and if they get any more they split the classes up. My step daughter came to live with us two years ago (4th grade) and they immediately found out she was struggling with math and had her getting extra time with tutors and teacher time within a week or two of the start of school year. Last year she was only 1 percentage point from making honor roll. Math again but her teacher for next year has already called me to talk about getting that grade up for next year and what we are going to need to do. Can you get that kind of service from a blue state union school district. I think not your kid is just another number.

She came from the Vegas school system with their 32 kids (closer to 40 this year) to a class and she was failing pretty much everything. Hell the teacher didn't even know she was stuffing her homework in her desk and "forgetting" about it till they cleaned out her desk at the end of the year and found about 4 months of uncompleted homework stuffed in there. You would think a teacher would notice that she was not turning anything in and tell her dad. Dad says he knew nothing about it but I don't really think he was hands on anyways. Property taxes actually went down last year too and we just got a new football field when other districts are laying people off. Also we just built a brand new elementary school the year before. Makes you wonder what is wrong with some systems and why can't they handle there business.

I do blame the unions, just for the fact that you cannot get rid of bad teachers who are just collecting their pay checks till their pensions kick in. Seniority over performance, please cry me a river. I do agree that they need to evaluate performance on like minded schools though cause there is a difference between the performance of inner city schools and a school in the suburbs catering to the middle class. You are going to get better performance out of the suburbs school but that doesn't mean that the inner city school teachers should get a free pass at being bad teachers. You should be able to fire them if they do not cut the mustard no matter what theor seniority is.

The upper class sends their kids to private school anyways and why shouldn't they be allowed to do so. If they want to pay for it more power to them. Wealth does bring privileges people, maybe instead of bitching more people should strive to become wealthy.

Maybe if you can actually fire some of these bad apple teachers things might improve and the public might not get so pissed about unions in the schools. Bring drugs to school or break any other rules, it is alright we will just put you in a "rubber room" and let you collect your full pay for a few years till the schools are finally able to fire you after they jump through about 50 hoops. I call bullshit on that and if you don't then you don't really care about the kids.

So if the unions are the problem, why is Texas (a non-union state) ranked at or near the bottom in education?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Niggaz and Wetbacks is the real answer.

 

[GreatGreg]

Niggaz and Wetbacks is the real answer.

Well I was going to put it more pc, lol

hmmm might it be because of the proportion of minorities is greater in texas. I find it interesting that the states with the highest test score are a little pale in their color when compared to other states that are of a more mixed variety. I would if it is coincidence? I would like to see the test scores compared state by state to race. Hispanics and African Americans score over 120 points less than whites on the SAT and with of 50% of the test takers in 2010 belonging to a minority it drags the overall test scores down.

Don't get me wrong I am all for hispanics and african americans going to college but I think it is not really all that fair to compare Texas to Massachusetts and Wyoming, How many minorities took their tests hmmmm?

 

[richard_daily]

Well I was going to put it more pc, lol

hmmm might it be because of the proportion of minorities is greater in texas. I find it interesting that the states with the highest test score are a little pale in their color when compared to other states that are of a more mixed variety. I would if it is coincidence? I would like to see the test scores compared state by state to race. Hispanics and African Americans score over 120 points less than whites on the SAT and with of 50% of the test takers in 2010 belonging to a minority it drags the overall test scores down.

Don't get me wrong I am all for hispanics and african americans going to college but I think it is not really all that fair to compare Texas to Massachusetts and Wyoming, How many minorities took their tests hmmmm?

So, much like your less well-spoken friend, you're a racist as well.

Glad that we could get that out in the open.

Only a coward blames people of a different skin colors for the problems besetting their nation... a real lowlife coward.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

So, much like your less well-spoken friend, you're a racist as well.

Glad that we could get that out in the open.

Only a coward blames people of a different skin colors for the problems besetting their nation... a real lowlife coward.

If you ask for a show hands you wont find a Nigga on the planet, theyre as plentiful as unicorns, so why all the angst about a mythical critter?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Well I was going to put it more pc, lol

hmmm might it be because of the proportion of minorities is greater in texas. I find it interesting that the states with the highest test score are a little pale in their color when compared to other states that are of a more mixed variety. I would if it is coincidence? I would like to see the test scores compared state by state to race. Hispanics and African Americans score over 120 points less than whites on the SAT and with of 50% of the test takers in 2010 belonging to a minority it drags the overall test scores down.

Don't get me wrong I am all for hispanics and african americans going to college but I think it is not really all that fair to compare Texas to Massachusetts and Wyoming, How many minorities took their tests hmmmm?

Here in Schlubville we toss every minority we can catch into advanced placement courses and the rest, and most fail their asses off. White guilt is so terrible to experience that we're as desperate and distressed as the GB galz after Sadie Hawkins Day.

 

[MeeMie]

Yeah like little dickie dailey is a spokesperson for Conservatives now ...

 

[GreatGreg]

So, much like your less well-spoken friend, you're a racist as well.

Glad that we could get that out in the open.

Only a coward blames people of a different skin colors for the problems besetting their nation... a real lowlife coward.

hahahhaahahaahaa, it is racist to point out that people of minorities score lower on test scored than white people. Well if so I am. Guess I am going to have to tell my half black niece and nephew whom I love with all my heart that I am a piece of shit white racist.

That is the real fucking problem that no one wants to talk about. The big elephant in the room. Why is it that minorities score lower on test scores. Might it be because of the way they are raised? The greater % of them being born out of wed lock and having no daddy around. Letting the system raise them instead of a proper family. Bill Cosby try to address this issue once and got blasted by the Sharpton's of the world because Cosby showed that it was their own damn fault for where their kids are at in life.

Their is white trash in america too btw and our social view in this country needs to get hammered back into shape before China or India whips our fucking asses.

Also just and fyi, I was happy when Obama got elected to office. Because it showed my niece and nephews that they could become anything they wanted too in this country. I may hate every single one of his policies because I have a completely different view on how this country is run, but I don't hate the man personally because he is black.

On another note, never new what racism was because I grew up in Cali and my parents raised me right. First time I saw it was when me and my wife moved to Louisiana and it was from black people giving us dirty looks all the time while we went out shopping or to dinner. Minding our own fucking business too. Disturbed her so bad that we had to move back to Texas because of the negativity that was breading there.

My best friend is Hispanic as well and he would fucking laugh at you for calling me racist, since he has the same view as I do about the minority thing. Ofcourse his parents are still together and he was made to do good in school or his daddy whipped his ass.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

At any early age I learned that if name-calling ruins your day youre destined to have an unhappy life. I read somewhere that the average swinging dick is dissed something like 300,000 times during his life. Thats enough ruined days for about 700 years!

So I dont get upset when people call me names. I'm not perfect, and much of what people say about me is mostly correct, but not always. Even so, I'm likely a better man than most.

 

[IrezumiKiss]

Niggaz and Wetbacks is the real answer.

Well I was going to put it more pc, lol

hmmm might it be because of the proportion of minorities is greater in texas. I find it interesting that the states with the highest test score are a little pale in their color when compared to other states that are of a more mixed variety. I would if it is coincidence? I would like to see the test scores compared state by state to race. Hispanics and African Americans score over 120 points less than whites on the SAT and with of 50% of the test takers in 2010 belonging to a minority it drags the overall test scores down.

Don't get me wrong I am all for hispanics and african americans going to college but I think it is not really all that fair to compare Texas to Massachusetts and Wyoming, How many minorities took their tests hmmmm?

http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lco4pwz5jt1qanb21o1_400.gif

Ahhhh racist pricks...they're just like roaches! You step on one and eight more come to its funeral.

hahahhaahahaahaa, it is racist to point out that people of minorities score lower on test scored than white people. Well if so I am. Guess I am going to have to tell my half black niece and nephew whom I love with all my heart that I am a piece of shit white racist.

That is the real fucking problem that no one wants to talk about. The big elephant in the room. Why is it that minorities score lower on test scores. Might it be because of the way they are raised? The greater % of them being born out of wed lock and having no daddy around. Letting the system raise them instead of a proper family. Bill Cosby try to address this issue once and got blasted by the Sharpton's of the world because Cosby showed that it was their own damn fault for where their kids are at in life.

Their is white trash in america too btw and our social view in this country needs to get hammered back into shape before China or India whips our fucking asses.

Also just and fyi, I was happy when Obama got elected to office. Because it showed my niece and nephews that they could become anything they wanted too in this country. I may hate every single one of his policies because I have a completely different view on how this country is run, but I don't hate the man personally because he is black.

On another note, never new what racism was because I grew up in Cali and my parents raised me right. First time I saw it was when me and my wife moved to Louisiana and it was from black people giving us dirty looks all the time while we went out shopping or to dinner. Minding our own fucking business too. Disturbed her so bad that we had to move back to Texas because of the negativity that was breading there.

My best friend is Hispanic as well and he would fucking laugh at you for calling me racist, since he has the same view as I do about the minority thing. Ofcourse his parents are still together and he was made to do good in school or his daddy whipped his ass.

That's just great, Greg. I'm so happy that your mulatto relatives and your Hispanic friend automatically absolve you from the sideways enabling of racist bullshit by laughing at the comment of an all-day asshole who pretty much denigrated both your half-black niece and nephew and your Hispanic friend with the same comment.

Well, maybe not your niece and nephew. After all, they're only half "niggaz," right? Keep on loving them with all your heart while you LOL behind their backs, courtesy of that good ol' invisible knapsack of anecdotal internet-based white privilege!

 

[richard_daily]

If you ask for a show hands you wont find a Nigga on the planet, theyre as plentiful as unicorns, so why all the angst about a mythical critter?

Sort of like teabaggers, huh?

 

[richard_daily]

http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lco4pwz5jt1qanb21o1_400.gif

Ahhhh racist pricks...they're just like roaches! You step on one and eight more come to its funeral.



That's just great, Greg. I'm so happy that your mulatto relatives and your Hispanic friend automatically absolve you from the sideways enabling of racist bullshit by laughing at the comment of an all-day asshole who pretty much denigrated both your half-black niece and nephew and your Hispanic friend with the same comment.

Well, maybe not your niece and nephew. After all, they're only half "niggaz," right? Keep on loving them with all your heart while you LOL behind their backs, courtesy of that good ol' invisible knapsack of anecdotal internet-based white privilege!

Either he's really good at hiding his racism in his real life, because he knows that saying garbage like he's posting on here would end up losing him friends, or probably (more likely) getting his ass kicked, or he's too stupid to realize some pretty basic stuff. He seems fairly intelligent, so I'm going to go with the former hypothesis...

Another privileged cracker.

 

[HermesVoice]

Public schools and small town life where the teachers are hand picked to come to teach. No unions or bullshit either. If you can't cut it off you go and thanks for trying. Public education at its finest. 20 kids to a class and if they get any more they split the classes up.

What makes you think it’s the union aspect that promotes your system’s success rather than the class size and close-knittedness of the community? We have the data to show smaller class sizes benefit kids. What evidence do you have that a weak union does the same and thus that it’s the “no unions or bullshit” that is making your system successful?

Can you get that kind of service from a blue state union school district. I think not your kid is just another number.

Can you get that kind of service from your average red state non-union school district in, say, Texas? Of course not. Why try to pretend that exceptional service has something to do with party affiliation or unionism when it’s clear it has nothing to do with either? If your supposition were true, red, Right-To-Work states would be vastly outperforming blue states with strong unions because they’d be offering these amazing services that you can’t get “from a blue state union school district.” The data shows that’s not even close to true. In fact, the reverse is the case.

The fact is, you can and do get that kind of service from any district that commits itself to the funding required for things like small class sizes.

She came from the Vegas school system with their 32 kids (closer to 40 this year) to a class and she was failing pretty much everything.

And she comes to a smaller community and a district with 12 fewer kids in class, and, surprise(!) performs far better.

Hell the teacher didn't even know she was stuffing her homework in her desk and "forgetting" about it till they cleaned out her desk at the end of the year and found about 4 months of uncompleted homework stuffed in there. You would think a teacher would notice that she was not turning anything in and tell her dad.

The teacher certainly knew the child wasn’t turning in homework, otherwise the child wouldn’t have failed class. Kids don’t get an “F” for no reason. They get an “F” because they don’t do their work, so yes, the teacher knew the kid wasn’t doing her work.

Now, what makes you think the school didn’t communicate the child’s struggles to the parents? The Clarke County school system sends progress reports every four weeks and issues quarterly report cards. It also has an on-line Parentlink that allows parents to check grades and attendance at any time. At what point after these communiqués get sent do we say that maybe it isn’t so much a failure of communication on the district’s part? Maybe there’s another factor at play … like … ooohhh ….

Dad says he knew nothing about it but I don't really think he was hands on anyways.

This is interesting. You have 3.5 lines explaining why the teacher and district are at fault, yet offer only one concerning the parent’s responsibility in the child’s failure. Quick question: Why didn’t the father know? Given the notifications from the CCSD I just posted above, how is it possible this father DIDN’T know? Doesn’t he read his mail? Does he not have the internet?

Seems pretty obvious to me that if the father genuinely didn’t know, he must have tried his best NOT to know. That being the case, by what logic are you placing the struggles of this girl on the shoulders of the district rather than poor parenting? To repeat what I wrote above, at what point after these communiqués get sent do we say that maybe it isn’t so much a failure of communication on the district’s part?

You seem like a parent who’s concerned with the child’s success. I’d say YOU are the real reason she’s performing so much better, and I’m backed up by all the educational data we have regarding the role of family in the academic success of children.

I do blame the unions, just for the fact that you cannot get rid of bad teachers

Yes you can. Stop offering hyperbole. Frankly, you need not even approach the tenure question in order to get rid of poorly performing staff, so long as you have administrators who are willing to be real hard-asses. I know. I’ve done it, and I’ll be happy to explain exactly how if you like.

Seniority over performance, please cry me a river.

The problem is that in teaching, as in most professions, experience (what you dismiss as mere “seniority”) is a major factor in creating excellence.

The upper class sends their kids to private school anyways and why shouldn't they be allowed to do so. If they want to pay for it more power to them.

Has anyone said there should be no private schools? No. The thread is about handing over PUBLIC dollars to PRIVATE entities, not the ways the wealthy choose to spend their own money.

maybe instead of bitching more people should strive to become wealthy.

True. Why doesn’t everyone just become a millionaire?

Bring drugs to school or break any other rules, it is alright we will just put you in a "rubber room" and let you collect your full pay for a few years till the schools are finally able to fire you after they jump through about 50 hoops. I call bullshit on that and if you don't then you don't really care about the kids.

You do understand, don’t you, that the NYC “rubber rooms” are places to send teachers that have been accused – and ONLY accused - of a crime? The “hoops” you’re talking about are the criminal proceedings to determine guilt or innocence. So apparently you’re outraged that these people are being treated as though they’re innocent until they’re proven guilty.

My God! How un-American is THAT???