Well Dressed Men and Manners

[Very_Bad_Man]

Something I learned early in life and that being well dressed breeds success in almost every facet of a mans life. If I can extend any advice to other men I would say dress to impress. Learn how to wear a suit and don't let it wear you. This means you need to appear comfortable in a suit.

Manners and being a real man is key. When I say real man this has nothing to do with sexual orientation. Gay men can be real men too. We all know to open doors but how many men when out to dinner with a lady stand when she does or stands upon her return? When out to dinner find out her order and you order what she wants for her and you order yours.

I know this may seem old fashioned but I think men need to step up and be men. Chivalry and gallantry need to make a come back. Women need to start being ladies again and demand respect and courtesy.

Am I old and over the hill?

I was out to dinner with a lady last night and I watched other men and how they conducted themselves and it made me feel sad. It also makes me sad when I see a women not treated like a lady as she should. I wanted to shake a few men and teach them table manners.

Am I a dinosaur ladies or do you long for the days when men knew how to be gentleman and treat you like a lady?

 

[wideeyedone]

good manners never go out of style. I think good manners are attractive on both genders.

 

[bronzeage]

good manners never go out of style. I think good manners are attractive on both genders.

Some rules of etiquette never go out of fashion, such as, "A gentleman insures his fingernails are clean before inquiring about anal sex."

 

[Very_Bad_Man]

Some rules of etiquette never go out of fashion, such as, "A gentleman insures his fingernails are clean before inquiring about anal sex."

That is just to funny.

Talking nails I would suggest men get a manicure. There is nothing sissy about it and having nice hygiene is very important

 

[espressolover]

Big ups for good manners in both genders and chivalry making a comeback!

 

[Stella_Omega]

As a butch dyke, I take these suggestions to heart as well.

I like to think I can really rock a men's suit! And it's fun for me to perform all the services a lady deserves when we're out on a date.

But watch it with the chivalry stuff, gentlemen. Use it wisely, let it be for pleasure only. Do not let your protective instincts get in a lady's way, because ladies these days, are used to doing things themelves, and you risk a nasty collision if you suddenly step forward to open a door-- just as she is. You could hurt her!

Similarly, don't try to protect her from the big bad world in every way. Modern ladies are not princesses to be wrapped in padding, and they will desire to get the hell out from under your thumb after awhile.

In fact-- if your lady shows signs of being able to protect you-- from dragons such as bills, or teacher conferences, or negotiations with the car mechanic, or maybe getting spiders out of the bathroom-- by all means, allow yourself the pleasure of being the prince and indulge in a little wrapping yourself.

That's when chivalry becomes something better, a royal couple caring for each other.

 

[sunandshadow]

I don't particularly want to be viewed as a lady, or find suits particularly attractive, but I do long for the days (if there ever were any) when men grew up looking forward to being fathers.

 

[orange_sky]

I don't particularly want to be viewed as a lady, or find suits particularly attractive, but I do long for the days (if there ever were any) when men grew up looking forward to being fathers.

Absolutely agree on this. Where'd it all go?

 

[o2bebd]

I have a job where I have to be very dominant at work, even though I am a sub at home. I evict people for a living! Yeah, I'm the one saying you can not do that here! I have to make sure the contractors are where they are supposed to be and getting the job done. Same for maintenance men. I have removed snakes from the leasing office ( I HATE snakes, but no one else was around). When I get home, it would be nice to have someone think of me as a lady. And treat me as one too. It never goes out of style

 

[Stella_Omega]

Absolutely agree on this. Where'd it all go?

it's more of a choice these days, which is a good thing.

Round about age twenty-nine, you'll hear that "Settle Down! Make babies!" bell ringing from deep in their souls.

 

[Very_Bad_Man]

Chivalry and gallantry has never been meant to strip a lady of her identity nor her assertiveness as a strong woman. Being a lady takes nothing away from a woman I assure you.

Being a lady is about manners and codes of conduct and insisting they be treated properly. The fact you do not want viewed as a lady may have something to do why you are not married or cannot find a man willing to be a father to your children. When one lowers the standards of themselves you will usually attract those of the lowest common denominator.

 

[FarmerTan]

Round about age twenty-nine, you'll hear that "Settle Down! Make babies!" bell ringing from deep in their souls.

Agreed.

People may not speak of a man's biological clock the same way they speak of a woman's biological clock, but there does come a point where most men will want children.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Chivalry and gallantry has never been meant to strip a lady of her identity nor her assertiveness as a strong woman. Being a lady takes nothing away from a woman I assure you.

Being a lady is about manners and codes of conduct and insisting they be treated properly. The fact you do not want viewed as a lady may have something to do why you are not married or cannot find a man willing to be a father to your children. When one lowers the standards of themselves you will usually attract those of the lowest common denominator.

Sorry, that's pure bullshit.

Chivalry has ALWAYS stripped women of their autonomy. That's exactly what it was developed to do. Back in King Arther's day, by the laws of the Picts and Celts, the land belonged to the women. Men could own it by marrying the daughter, and if she divorced some dude he no longer had the right to the land-- be it a tiny hardscrabble farm, or the entire country of Albion. And the women would kick a man out if they felt entitled to do so.

it didn't take the Roman immigrants long to figure out that these women(who owned the land) had to be convinced that they dainty and precious things, and should be cosseted and guarded (thereby guarding the male claim to the land) and you know... shut up in towers. Kept at home, breeding. Because if she didn't go out and meet other men, a man could be secure in his home (which was legally hers).

Heterosexuals sure do come up with some creepy ideas.

 

[TheLM]

REMOVED POST

Not worth getting into a pissing contest.

Chivalry is biological.

 

[Stella_Omega]

What shouldn't I have to do for myself?

Naw, I am all for playing around with chivalry, and being polite to ladies who wish to play with it too, opening doors and standing when they stand. I love lighting a lady's cigarette -- assuming you can find a woman who smokes anymore-- and pulling out her chair, and choosing the wine.

I can do politesse in four styles; Renaissance, baroque, fin de siecle, and modern queer (which means that sometimes I open the door for a male because he's the one wearing the come-fuck-me pumps and the little black dress)

But I don't pretend that chivalry is anything except what it is. Or was.

 

[switchbitch]

Any group of moral or social mores can be for perverted for political or personal gain, however it does not mean that those moral or social mores are what is at fault, merely that those who use them inappropriately are at fault.

historically it was supposed to mean:
Charlemagne's Code of Chivalry-
The worded code of chivalry from Rolands Song 1098-1100.
To fear God and maintain His Church
To serve the liege lord in valour and faith
To protect the weak and defenceless
To give succour to widows and orphans
To refrain from the wanton giving of offence
To live by honour and for glory
To despise pecuniary reward
To fight for the welfare of all
To obey those placed in authority
To guard the honour of fellow knights
To eschew unfairness, meanness and deceit
To keep faith
At all times to speak the truth
To persevere to the end in any enterprise begun
To respect the honour of women
Never to refuse a challenge from an equal
Never to turn the back upon a foe



there appear to be some very nice thoughts amongst that lot, no? And if that is the spirit of chivalry for the most part I say here here!

 

[LilyPru]

In my experience, men who go on about chivalry and "codes of conduct" and the way women and men "should " be are super fucking insecure.

Seriously, it's about basic manners and being kind to one another. A guy in a suit with a bunch of pedestal placing bullshit gender dynamics? No thank you. I want to be around men who treat me like a person who has a brain and needs and emotions that they recognize. I also want to be around women who treat me the same way.

And now I will time warp back to the 21st century.... phew.

 

[switchbitch]

Regardless of where chivalry came from, or what it was used for, or perverted to, I have to say it is really nice and very very hot when you go out with someone who honours the occasion by putting on their glad rags and their best behaviour merely to impress you. That's a lovely complement no matter what your sex or orientation.
Honestly when someone does that (male or female) it makes me so wet I just can't wait to get somewhere more private.

 

[AlmostAlice]

Agreed. That's not chivalry though, that's just basic politeness and being a nice person.

I wouldn't say chivalry was 'perverted', it simply wasn't all that jazz even when it was conceived.

 

[EllieB58]

Shoes shoes shoes, and beautiful teeth behind a caring smile.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Any group of moral or social mores can be for perverted for political or personal gain, however it does not mean that those moral or social mores are what is at fault, merely that those who use them inappropriately are at fault.

historically it was supposed to mean:
Charlemagne's Code of Chivalry-
The worded code of chivalry from Rolands Song 1098-1100.
To fear God and maintain His Church
To serve the liege lord in valour and faith
To protect the weak and defenceless
To give succour to widows and orphans
To refrain from the wanton giving of offence
To live by honour and for glory
To despise pecuniary reward
To fight for the welfare of all
To obey those placed in authority
To guard the honour of fellow knights
To eschew unfairness, meanness and deceit
To keep faith
At all times to speak the truth
To persevere to the end in any enterprise begun
To respect the honour of women
Never to refuse a challenge from an equal
Never to turn the back upon a foe



there appear to be some very nice thoughts amongst that lot, no? And if that is the spirit of chivalry for the most part I say here here!

None of which has much to do with going out on dates, does it... It's all about men interacting with other men.

Oh, wait, "to respect the honour of women." There's one. All those instruction about everything else-- one line giving the barest of guidelines about the thing we're talking about.

I think the whole thing could be a great new creed for modern times if we remove the assumption that it belongs to men exclusively. I propose; "respect the honour of other genders" and "Give succor to the dispossessed" instead of "widows and orphans" (who after all, are dispossessed-- along with thousands of men, these days)

I know, this isn't fetishy fun from me. But it paves the way for fetishy fun, IMO.

 

[oggbashan]

My father always believed in standing when a woman entered a room, in opening a door for her to pass through first, and that sort of courtesy.

In his 80s and 90s he understood that his behaviour wasn't always politically correct so he changed. He would stand up for both sexes, open doors for both.

In medieval England, when the men went off to war they left their women in charge of their castles and estates. There were several instances of women defending their castles against attacks with the help of the retainers, of course, but the Lady of the manor was the boss.

In the civil war between Stephen and Matilda, Matilda was the more fearsome enemy. Unfortunately for her, she angered too many of her supporters by her imperious ways. The City of London, which was preparing to open its gates to her, changed its mind when she informed that they must surrender 'or else'. The City preferred to keep her out. Ever since then, the ruling Monarch must ask the permission of the Lord Mayor of London before entering the City. Of course, the Lord Mayor would not be so discourteous as to refuse, but the Monarch still has to ask.

The Tower of London, a Royal Palace, is actually outside the City of London so the Monarch can arrive there without entering the City.

In England, the women's property laws that made the husband the "owner" were 18th and 19th Century changes. Before then, women could and did keep their property separate even after marriage. In Wales women still kept their property.

 

[Wolfman1982]

My father has this saying, which I live by when it comes to manners and stuff like that, heck it is a part of the creed I live by. So here goes.

"It takes three generations to make a gentleman". My addition to that saying is : "And I am not going to ruin it". When I think of manners, then being dressed in a tuxedo is not really the most important part, your manners in general is the most important part. The same is about being diplomatic in your words, yes there are times where even the most diplomatic gentlemen looses it with curses and rudeness , but then the limit of his patience has hit its maximum. Some people will probably disagree with me being a gentleman and a good mannered human being. But I think that is not the issue we are discussing here, but instead the key ingredient in this thread, is not every body is old, when they realise that good manners, and being a gentleman is extremely important. The same goes, when it comes to being diplomatic, even though you do not have the "title" of being a diplomat.

Every day I try to be a good human being, and that includes being well mannered, being a gentleman , and being a diplomatic fellow. And try to help other people too.

But when did I realise, having good manners would be better than being a rude individual all the time ? actually that I realised many years ago, and here we are talking about when I was between the ages of 7 and 11. Names means squat , actions and behaviour means more. And that includes manners, and what not.

And I hope my post has not gotten too off topic in the topic.

 

[Very_Bad_Man]

....and yet they wonder why men are crude and ignorant. They wonder where morality has gone. They wonder why men are not taking responsibility for the life they help create. They wonder why men treat them like shit. They wonder why men call them bitches and hos.

As I said before being chivalrous and being a gentleman in no ways reduces a women nor do I suggest placing a women on a pedestal. Where do you think generosity and courtesy stems from? I see by comments there are those that really think they understand the concept yet I assure you by the comments you do not.

No women I ever dated ever felt they were beneath me socially or the hierarchy of power within the relationship. Nor am I insecure I assure you. You do not have to wear a suit or a uniform to be a gentleman.

Wolfman1982 by your post you do understand. Though Chivalry and Gallantry may very well be archaic terms you do live your life by the very code that I am referring. You are a good man.

 

[Stella_Omega]

You're talking about: courtesy.

Chivalry is something a little bit different. Honest. It's more like a legal code. If you want to use it to describe your polite and kind ways, you will find, once in a while, that misunderstandings will arise.

You can call a horse a donkey, but it won't be one-- even if both critters dance on four hooves.

In any case, hardly anyone wonders why men are crude and ignorant, and the only people who claim morality is dead are truly ignorant themselves.

....and yet they wonder why men are crude and ignorant. They wonder where morality has gone. They wonder why men are not taking responsibility for the life they help create. They wonder why men treat them like shit. They wonder why men call them bitches and hos.

Um, no. These things are not new. Men have behaved this way for hundreds of years.

It's women who have brought this behavior into the light and said that it is not acceptable any longer. That's why you hear about it now-- because feminists talk about it. Men hardly ever did. Polite men couldn't believe that rude men existed-- who would do such a thing?

I don't know if Bad_Man will follow this link, but anyone who is interested-- here is a letter that Abigail Adams wrote to her husband John Adams back in 1776-- and his answer-- that illustrates exactly what I am saying;

"I desire you would remember the ladies"

Courtesy is always good. Compassion and kindness. Politeness. These are good things, and the extra special rituals we call "Politesse" are fun to play with. They do make a person feel special. They make it easier to like each other. But don't assume that a polite person is therefore a good one...