NRA and Florida gag pediatricians: no more firearm safety advice for parents

[Ishmael]

Ish, which other "strident evangelists" should the state prevent from "subjecting their patients/customers to berating lectures?"

How about an employer that uses their position of power to coerce the employees to conform to what the employer considers to be the ideal private life?

"Do you have guns at home?"

"Why yes."

"Get rid of them or you're fired."

Ishmael

 

[Peregrinator]

How about an employer that uses their position of power to coerce the employees to conform to what the employer considers to be the ideal private life?

"Do you have guns at home?"

"Why yes."

"Get rid of them or you're fired."

Ishmael

"Patients/customers" are not employees.

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

How about an employer that uses their position of power to coerce the employees to conform to what the employer considers to be the ideal private life?

"Do you have guns at home?"

"Why yes."

"Get rid of them or you're fired."

Ishmael

These conditions already exist.

 

[Ishmael]

"Patients/customers" are not employees.

How observant. And how obtuse, they may as well be in a world of managed care and assigned physicians.

I would love to see the data on those accidental shootings of children, the data that would include just how many of them were regularly taken to the doctor by their parents vs. now many used the emergency room as their primary care. I'd bet good money that the majority of those children never saw a doctor outside the emergency room.

Ishmael

 

[Peregrinator]

How observant. And how obtuse, they may as well be in a world of managed care and assigned physicians.

I would love to see the data on those accidental shootings of children, the data that would include just how many of them were regularly taken to the doctor by their parents vs. now many used the emergency room as their primary care. I'd bet good money that the majority of those children never saw a doctor outside the emergency room.

Ishmael

They may as well be...in some future dystopian version of the universe, but not under the current system. They can choose another doctor. The relationship of the doctor to the patient is not at all similar to that of an employer to an employee. You know that.

I'm sure that data is available somewhere.

 

[cjh]

The "should not" is going to create some issues to be certain. There is an implication that there is a boundary and the opposing factions are going to press to find out exactly where that boundary lies.

I do know what the intent of that was and it was to prevent strident evangelists from subjecting their patients/customers to berating lectures.

Ishmael

I wonder how much of the conflict arose because of physicians unwittingly being overbearing and patients being overly sensitive to perceived criticism?

I know you will disagree with the analogy and will not press you to accept it. But, were the risk lead paint chips and the doctor learned the parents probably lived in a house with lead paint, would he be out of bounds by nagging the parents to have the paint analyzed for lead content?

 

[koalabear]

I wonder how much of the conflict arose because of physicians unwittingly being overbearing and patients being overly sensitive to perceived criticism?

I know you will disagree with the analogy and will not press you to accept it. But, were the risk lead paint chips and the doctor learned the parents probably lived in a house with lead paint, would he be out of bounds by nagging the parents to have the paint analyzed for lead content?

Is he also a certified lead abatement professional?

 

[cjh]

Is he also a certified lead abatement professional?

That dog don't hunt. He does not have to be to advise a parent about the dangers of lead and the advisability of testing.

Nor does he have to be to talk about trigger locks, gun safes, and storing ammo some place other than with the fire arm.

 

[koalabear]

That dog don't hunt. He does not have to be to advise a parent about the dangers of lead and the advisability of testing.

Nor does he have to be to talk about trigger locks, gun safes, and storing ammo some place other than with the fire arm.

I think patients should just come to Lit to get advice. We have such wonder law clerks here.

 

[cjh]

I think patients should just come to Lit to get advice. We have such wonder law clerks here.

That, and dumb cheerleaders.

Are you getting all fired up for the big NRA pep rally?

Will Vette take you to the prom afterwards?

 

[koalabear]

That, and dumb cheerleaders.

Are you getting all fired up for the big NRA pep rally?

Will Vette take you to the prom afterwards?

Will you ever get clients or just continue trolling lit for them?

 

[cjh]

Will you ever get clients or just continue trolling lit for them?

No, I'd rather hang out with people like you who are obviously posting on their employer's time instead of doing the work they are being paid to do.

 

[koalabear]

No, I'd rather hang out with people like you who are obviously posting on their employer's time instead of doing the work they are being paid to do.

I am my employer.

 

[off2bed]

No, I'd rather hang out with people like you who are obviously posting on their employer's time instead of doing the work they are being paid to do.

You mean you're not being paid to post on Lit?

Dummy!

 

[cjh]

I am my employer.

I don't believe you. Sorry. And as you've demonstrated repeatedly, the very act of posting that makes it true. When do you take the journeyman plumber exam?

 

[koalabear]

I don't believe you. Sorry. And as you've demonstrated repeatedly, the very act of posting that makes it true. When do you take the journeyman plumber exam?

Like lit lawyers, any one can be a lit plumber. All you need to know is that shit flows downhill.

 

[cjh]

Like lit lawyers, any one can be a lit plumber. All you need to know is that shit flows downhill.

Well, given your posts you've demonstrated clear mastery of that knowledge.

 

[koalabear]

Well, given your posts you've demonstrated clear mastery of that knowledge.

I know, move out of the valley.

 

[Byron In Exile]

That dog don't hunt. He does not have to be to advise a parent about the dangers of lead and the advisability of testing.

Nor does he have to be to talk about trigger locks, gun safes, and storing ammo some place other than with the fire arm.

The law doesn't restrict a doctor from talking about trigger locks, gun safes, and storing ammo some place other than with the fire arm.

 

[cjh]

The law doesn't restrict a doctor from talking about trigger locks, gun safes, and storing ammo some place other than with the fire arm.

Well, I am not quite sure what the law permits and does not permit. It is not very well drafted. What sort of guidance does this provide?

8. A health care provider or health care facility shall
88 respect a patient’s right to privacy and should refrain from
89 making a written inquiry or asking questions concerning the
90 ownership of a firearm or ammunition by the patient or by a
91 family member of the patient, or the presence of a firearm in a
92 private home or other domicile of the patient or a family member
93 of the patient. Notwithstanding this provision, a health care
94 provider or health care facility that in good faith believes
95 that this information is relevant to the patient’s medical care
96 or safety may make such a verbal or written inquiry.

How do you talk about locks and safes and such without first determining that it's a relevant area of discussion? And can the doc simply cop out by assuming "in good faith" that the information is relevant for every parent with a child until told otherwise?

It seems to me that a law that simply mandated 1) no written records re: gun ownership, 2) respect for the patient's wishes whether to discuss the topic, and 3) no discrimination in providing services would better serve the law's intent.

 

[Byron In Exile]

How do you talk about locks and safes and such without first determining that it's a relevant area of discussion?

You just do it. You say, "By the way, if you have guns in your home, you should bla bla bla etc." Or, better yet, you hand them a nice brochure describing various safety precautions that ought to be taken with respect to firearms, which can provide more detailed information than a verbal spiel, and let the patient read it on their own $500/hr dime, or discard it if it's inapplicable or they're not interested.

And can the doc simply cop out by assuming "in good faith" that the information is relevant for every parent with a child until told otherwise?

Why not?

It seems to me that a law that simply mandated 1) no written records re: gun ownership, 2) respect for the patient's wishes whether to discuss the topic, and 3) no discrimination in providing services would better serve the law's intent.

You've just described the law.

What's your issue with it, then?

 

[cjh]

<snip>

You've just described the law.

What's your issue with it, then?

i've described the law as i would draft it, not as it is written.

the discord between "should not" and "however, if in good faith" creates a lot of potential for disagreement between the patient and physician as to what should not have been done and what was done in good faith.

given the fact that professional discipline is on the line, the law should be clear.

 

[off2bed]

Here's the checklist of things pediatricians will talk about with patients if you bleeding hearts had your way:

http://margaretstohl.typepad.com/.a/6a010536baa9fc970c01116892835b970c-800wi

Doctor visits will take a week, just to go over every little thing that could possibly go wrong in the home.

 

[Peregrinator]

Here's the checklist of things pediatricians will talk about with patients if you bleeding hearts had your way:

http://margaretstohl.typepad.com/.a/6a010536baa9fc970c01116892835b970c-800wi

Doctor visits will take a week, just to go over every little thing that could possibly go wrong in the home.

This post is absolutely idiotic. It has zero intellectual merit. I thought you were smarter than this.

 

[off2bed]

This post is absolutely idiotic. It has zero intellectual merit. I thought you were smarter than this.

Yes or no: should doctors lecture patients on every conceivable danger that could possibly befall them?

If not, then why mention anything other than the health of the patient on that day, with the symptoms (or lack thereof) apparent to the doctor right then and there? If the patient asks for advice on something else, then I'm fine with doctors yakking on whatever the patient asks about - but they shouldn't go probing into families' lives for stuff that isn't their business.

If so, then you will end up with a book that big of crap they'd have to tell us, at the risk of a malpractice suit for not mentioning it.