No rules for non human?

[lovecraft68]

Best of luck to you.

The story you referenced in the first post has been removed, by the way.

Interesting because it was up this morning when I posted the link. Maybe 3113 comment about the FBI triggered something because as I said it had been there since last Halloween contest.

Course if the powers that be caught this thread there goes my second attempt to slip some under 18 background in but no biggie this time I am not counting on it getting through.

Just so you know the only reason I really harped on this is that underage just came under huge fire on the "incest is best" thread in the playground. Some one pointed out that in many of the posts people were posting their real life (allegedly real life as let's face it a lot of these people are chain yanking to get attention) experiences and kept referencing underage.

the thread was almost shut down but they ended up moving it to fetish. Bottom line is they got on it like white on rice to the point many incest authors were waiting for the entire category to get washed. Fortunately they simply got rid of what should never be there in the first place. The thread has no mod but I and some other people have been looking at all the new posts and If I see someone saying "when I was 14..." I contact them and explain that they need to edit it. So far everyone has been really cool about it.

So I saw this story and got a little pissed off especially when the complaints are right in the damn comments. I don't care per se what anyone writes but if someone draws attention to this site it could get in a shitload of trouble and then we all lose it. Trust me you can think what you want about me but I am not here to ruin anyone's fun. (unless you write rape stories)

 

[Boxlicker101]

First of all, you can't write an entire post complaining about nonhumans and then say you aren't "bitching" or "calling out the category." You are. This is a classic, "I'm not saying, I'm just saying" post.

Moving on, the story you linked to is in the Erotic Horror category, not Nonhuman. If you want to complain about a story that includes a nonhuman and a fifteen-year-old, that's fine, but you can't link that complaint to a complaint about the nonhuman category. It just doesn't make sense.

Beyond that, you say this is a handful of authors. You point out one (maybe two, if you count sr71plt, but unless he's talking about a story posted under an alt or has since pulled, I'm guessing his is under gay male. I just checked; he doesn't have a story in nonhuman).

There are stories that slip by that include underage sex. There are stories that include nonhumans. Make a Venn diagram, and there is bound to be some overlap. That's what you are seeing, and you are drawing conclusions from it. It's utterly ridiculous.

Frankly, it seems to me that you are still annoyed that the non-erotic dream (or whatever it was) that happened between your two siblings when they were teens was rejected, while this was not. I understand why it would piss you off--really, I do--but it seems like sour grapes to add nonhuman to your list of hated categories because a story in the Erotic Horror section includes a vampire and a fifteen-year-old.

I don't know just what constitutes "a handful of authors," but I'm sure there are more than two who write about non-human. I have stories about women and a werewolf and women and a unicorn. I emphasize the canine and equine features of both of them. I also have written about a mermaid and a minotaur, but they are humanoid. The werewolf stories are not at all EH. He is a nice man who, because of a genetic quirk, turns into a young grey and white and black wolf when the moon is full, and he and his wife take advantage of it and have fantastic sex. Since he only changes every 28 days, he is very horny then, which is one of the reasons why they have such a great time.

 

[LettersFromTatyana]

I don't know just what constitutes "a handful of authors," but I'm sure there are more than two who write about non-human. I have stories about women and a werewolf and women and a unicorn. I emphasize the canine and equine features of both of them. I also have written about a mermaid and a minotaur, but they are humanoid. The werewolf stories are not at all EH. He is a nice man who, because of a genetic quirk, turns into a young grey and white and black wolf when the moon is full, and he and his wife take advantage of it and have fantastic sex. Since he only changes every 28 days, he is very horny then, which is one of the reasons why they have such a great time.

Why is this in response to me? I included the phrase "handful of authors" because LC did near the end of post #1.

Besides which, LC wasn't saying that only a handful of authors write about nonhumans or in the nonhuman category; he was saying that only a handful of nonhuman authors include underaged sex.

 

[Stella_Omega]

You know if he knew how big tentacle sex was these days Cthulhu would wake his ass up a hell of a lot sooner.

Oh and for the record let's just make sure that all tentacles are 18 years or older!

Sleepless aeons older, no problem.

 

[LunaEroticaMystica]

Glad to see the story finally removed. If only the author had taken the advice of everyone and changed the age of her character to 18 or not given her an age at all. She should have been proactive. Otherwise, it was a well-written story, I thought. I'm glad to know I wasn't the only one that reported the story. I'm glad you started this thread Lovecraft, even if it was a bitch session. It got stuff done!

 

[firesflair]

This particular "oversight" has somehow lasted six months and has been complained about. But it is what it is.

Just out of curiousity when you say the FBI looks for under age-under 18- is not the age of consent in many states now 16? Or is it a different set of rules for Erotica?

P.S. why are you putting Santa in with mythical creatures? Are you saying he is not real?

age of consent for sex is not the same thing as age of consent for pornography (erotica writing is often considered a type of porn.)
usually the age for pornography is 18.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pornography
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_consent

 

[lovecraft68]

Glad to see the story finally removed. If only the author had taken the advice of everyone and changed the age of her character to 18 or not given her an age at all. She should have been proactive. Otherwise, it was a well-written story, I thought. I'm glad to know I wasn't the only one that reported the story. I'm glad you started this thread Lovecraft, even if it was a bitch session. It got stuff done!

Well honestly I believe she could still edit it and re-post it if she wants too. Thing is if you go to her page it was the only thing she wrote and I find myself wondering if she was an "alt" and it was another author who didn't want to be associated with that particular story. Glad it got removed as well. If it only stays on the site it's one thing but someone sees it and gets the bug up their ass to go elsewhere with the info we are all screwed.

And yes that is me bitching for the greater good!

 

[lovecraft68]

age of consent for sex is not the same thing as age of consent for pornography (erotica writing is often considered a type of porn.)
usually the age for pornography is 18.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pornography
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_consent

Thank you for the clarification. You know I am old school and stubborn and hate to google every little thing. I think it is still fun to ask.

By the way welcome to the AH!

 

[lovecraft68]

Sleepless aeons older, no problem.

Yup. Good old HP was phobic of age, seafood and quite racist against immigrants. You would never know from his writing however.

 

[LettersFromTatyana]

And yes that is me bitching for the greater good!

This is classic. I think I'm going to start using this in my everyday life. "Don't mind me, I'm just bitching for the greater good."

 

[sr71plt]

This is classic. I think I'm going to start using this in my everyday life. "Don't mind me, I'm just bitching for the greater good."

And don't Lovecraft and Zeb make an interesting innuendo tag team?

 

[LunaEroticaMystica]

*giggles* "bitching for the greater good" Love it!

 

[firesflair]

Thank you for the clarification. You know I am old school and stubborn and hate to google every little thing. I think it is still fun to ask.

By the way welcome to the AH!

thanks for the welcome. I have no problem clarifying things. on this point especially I like to correct people, 'cause for some reason many people do assume that the two age of consents are the same, even though they aren't, and it can lead to arguments, as well as lawsuits.

the one thing is... if we cannot write it, how come a lot of the historical romance that gets published has characters under 18? it's classifiable as porn, especailly considering how often the guy is like 10+ years older then the girl. lol

edit/note: I don't mean why does this site not allow it, rather why is it historical romance gets away with writing about 18 year old girls marrying and sleeping with guys who are like 10 years older then them.

 

[LunaEroticaMystica]

I'll let someone else handle this...I think here at Lit. it doesn't matter the time period- the site is covering their arses. But yes, in the mainstream and beyond...historical certainly does.

 

[Quiet_Cool]

The problem with this sort of thing is that (and I didn't get a chance to read the story, so it may not apply directly to the topic at hand, but a more generalized version thereof) is that there are different ways to display underage characters in such stories. The point (not that the Agencies necessarily care) is to protect the youthful from being seen in a sexual manner by predators. There are differences between someone writing something sexual in orientation (describing underage body parts in a manner to entice) and someone simply offering a description of a character while including those parts. Noting that a young girl is maturing and developing by referencing her physical traits and their changes can be a very effective manner in which to illustrate the changes she's undergoing in her life as a whole. It can effectively display the "at odds with herself" state that puberty can have on a young man or woman without being more than mere, unerotic description.

The question is, is the description as such, the age and physical traits mere factual representation of the state of the character, and not intended to create the type of attention to the underage character that would seem to draw the attention of the ill-hearted or sick-minded. The question is: is the character represented as an object; in a manner that is intended to elicit an erotic response from the reader.

I'm sure everybody is aware of this, but thought I would point it out in case our thought processes got caught up in technicalities.

On a side note, I believe age 18 for porn is a federal law. And I hope to hell it is. The world has gone from almost pointless to totally gone if we think we can tell a seventeen year old that she can't purchase a cigarette, but she can show the world her twat is pretty goddamn fucked up if you ask me.

Not that it'd surprise me, but it's still pretty goddamn fucked up.

The werewolf stories are not at all EH. He is a nice man who, because of a genetic quirk, turns into a young grey and white and black wolf when the moon is full, and he and his wife take advantage of it and have fantastic sex. Since he only changes every 28 days, he is very horny then, which is one of the reasons why they have such a great time.

Not to say this story is posted in Erotic Horror, Box, but it does seem to represent what I was used to seeing in that category years back. The problem with EH, and why there's a commonality between it and non-human (IMHO) is exactly what you posted here. Anyone who's seen the original Twilight movie (the first one, I haven't seen the other 2... 3... however many there are) should be able to tell you that having vampires involved does not constitute horror. BUt if truly scary stories were the only ones posted there, well, who would be the author who wrote them both?

Q_C

 

[sr71plt]

While we drift into our biweekly "discussion" of why Literotica won't let me write all the extremes I want to, let us not forget that this is a privately owned Web site. They could say they won't publish anything mentioning pink polka dots if they wanted to.

So, if you want to post here, quitcher bitchin', read the rules, try to stay inside them--both written and as the Web site authorities informally observe them--and post other stories elsewhere.

Or contact the site owners directly and lobby them directly rather than forum posters who can't do a damn thing about the policies or how/whether they are enforced.

Or launch your own story Web site and post whatever you can get away with.

 

[Stella_Omega]

thanks for the welcome. I have no problem clarifying things. on this point especially I like to correct people, 'cause for some reason many people do assume that the two age of consents are the same, even though they aren't, and it can lead to arguments, as well as lawsuits.

the one thing is... if we cannot write it, how come a lot of the historical romance that gets published has characters under 18? it's classifiable as porn, especailly considering how often the guy is like 10+ years older then the girl. lol

because the rules that apply at lit might not apply elsewhere.

Lit is private property. It has owners. They've made rules. Other site owners can make other rules. They can test the law or push it,or flaunt it. They can risk getting busted if they want to, or they might be on servers in another country where American law doesn't reach. Their decision.

Which reminds me, a couple weeks ago I got email from my webhost. It said that my blog site violated their terms of service, that there was porn and spam that I had to remove.

I contacted a higher-up, and told them that I had adult material on my site, but none of it was porn (A dodgy defense if there ever was one) and that we had discussed this when I bought my hosting plan. I pointed out that there was nothing illegal on my site although there was a lot of graphic and explicit content. The management agreed with me, and I haven't heard anything else since-- although I keep my backup up-to-date because some technician could get a sudden wild hair and delete me without warning....

 

[firesflair]

I think I should clarify. How come legally, you cannot write explicit about some one under 18 having sex, if it is set present day (including published works) yet you can do so in historical romance (written present day about the past)?
not just this site, where I can understand the rules. I just cannot understand why people love it in the past, and it's allowed to be printed. you'd think that they would have to fudge the truth and make the girls at least 18, in spite of being "historically accurate' (which would see the girls married much younger then 16..like 12).
will clarify my original post if I can

 

[LunaEroticaMystica]

Stella Omega, glad to hear that was resolved, for now!

 

[Boxlicker101]

I think I should clarify. How come legally, you cannot write explicit about some one under 18 having sex, if it is set present day (including published works) yet you can do so in historical romance (written present day about the past)?
not just this site, where I can understand the rules. I just cannot understand why people love it in the past, and it's allowed to be printed. you'd think that they would have to fudge the truth and make the girls at least 18, in spite of being "historically accurate' (which would see the girls married much younger then 16..like 12).
will clarify my original post if I can

We are not referring to what is legal and what is not. Legally, I can write and post graphically detailed stories about anally raping my three year old grandson and illustrate it with drawings, but I won't, and I wouldn't even if I could post it here. The Management of this site has certain policies as to what they will accept and what they won't. It's not the law; it's their policy, but the law may have something to do with it. They will not accept bestiality and they will not accept sex involving somebody under 18 years old, even a 16 year old bride and her husband. Not even a person under 18 being nude or seeing somebody who is nude, although there may be exceptions there. They will not accept stories about a woman and a dog, but they will accept stories about a woman and a werewolf or other mythical beast.

They also have a policy against excessive degradation and abuse, but that is a matter of degree and of what kind of story it is. I actually have a story about a mortician who practices necrophilia, but it is an Erotic Horror story. They might not accept it if it is written as a Fetish story.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I think I should clarify. How come legally, you cannot write explicit about some one under 18 having sex, if it is set present day (including published works) yet you can do so in historical romance (written present day about the past)?
not just this site, where I can understand the rules. I just cannot understand why people love it in the past, and it's allowed to be printed. you'd think that they would have to fudge the truth and make the girls at least 18, in spite of being "historically accurate' (which would see the girls married much younger then 16..like 12).
will clarify my original post if I can

Maybe it's because it doesn't get reported.

Or maybe because a Romance Novel is (supposedly) not porn.

 

[firesflair]

We are not referring to what is legal and what is not. Legally, I can write and post graphically detailed stories about anally raping my three year old grandson and illustrate it with drawings, but I won't, and I wouldn't even if I could post it here. The Management of this site has certain policies as to what they will accept and what they won't. It's not the law; it's their policy, but the law may have something to do with it. They will not accept bestiality and they will not accept sex involving somebody under 18 years old, even a 16 year old bride and her husband. Not even a person under 18 being nude or seeing somebody who is nude, although there may be exceptions there. They will not accept stories about a woman and a dog, but they will accept stories about a woman and a werewolf or other mythical beast.

They also have a policy against excessive degradation and abuse, but that is a matter of degree and of what kind of story it is. I actually have a story about a mortician who practices necrophilia, but it is an Erotic Horror story. They might not accept it if it is written as a Fetish story.

I get that. my posts were in context to a post that some one else made, about age of sexual consent. If you('ve) read them it should make more sense then just this post by it's self. the comment about the romance was a kinda off handed "if no one else can why can they" tangent about publishing practices. and actually what you described would be considered child porn and would be illegal.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Hi Fireflair... Just to say, there's always the question as to whether or not boxlicker has read the posts he responds to.

 

[Quiet_Cool]

I think I should clarify. How come legally, you cannot write explicit about some one under 18 having sex, if it is set present day (including published works) yet you can do so in historical romance (written present day about the past)?
not just this site, where I can understand the rules. I just cannot understand why people love it in the past, and it's allowed to be printed. you'd think that they would have to fudge the truth and make the girls at least 18, in spite of being "historically accurate' (which would see the girls married much younger then 16..like 12).
will clarify my original post if I can

Everything is going to be subject to several different reasons (and different versions of those reasons; not to mention different versions of reasoning), but I'll give this a shot.

I'm of the impression that the definition of porn is the real question. By definition, porn offers no real societal value. That being said, those historical pieces are often times representational of specific time periods or of specific people (fictional sometimes, but sometimes real people). The question comes down to (aside from what I was saying earlier about objectionalizing the underage individual) whether or not the piece itself "says more" that something we could label pornographic (which by definition, says nothing, but offers a version of pure entertainment).

By illustration, if you write a simple "fuck piece" about a pervert fondling some young girl, as opposed to a "more substantial" piece, where said act takes place but the eroticism of it isn't the main focus but something that happens in the story, there a distinct differences.

By more exact illustration: a lit piece entitled "I Fukt my Undraged Sventine Year Old Neese" does not amount to a piece encompassing the life of Lewis Carol, where the perversion (alleged, I suppose) was a mere detail of the overall story.

Q_C

 

[Boxlicker101]

Hi Fireflair... Just to say, there's always the question as to whether or not boxlicker has read the posts he responds to.

This is the post I responded to, and I did read it:

Quote:
Originally Posted by firesflair
I think I should clarify. How come legally, you cannot write explicit about some one under 18 having sex, if it is set present day (including published works) yet you can do so in historical romance (written present day about the past)?
not just this site, where I can understand the rules. I just cannot understand why people love it in the past, and it's allowed to be printed. you'd think that they would have to fudge the truth and make the girls at least 18, in spite of being "historically accurate' (which would see the girls married much younger then 16..like 12).
will clarify my original post if I can


What I said amounts to legally you can write any kind of pornography you want, and illustrate it with drawings. I used an extreme example to emphasize what I meant. Unless things have changed since the last time I looked, illegal kiddie porn would be photos or films or tapes showing actual persons under 18 years old engaged in sex. Writing or drawing are not illegal, because there is no victim, as there would be in a photo. It's not illegal to write about something illegal happening.

As I said, that is the last I knew. If somebody knows something more recent, I would be interested in learning about it. There was a thread a while ago about some really nasty writings, but I don't know hos it was resolved.