Science vs Religion

[Avellan13]

This thread is for people to argue and discuss there ideas towards the opposing side.

NOTE: We are not going to have harrasing, threats, or being overly jerkish and rude. I understand religion and science discussions can get pretty heated and some anger is ok, just as long as it doesn`t get too far.

I`m an atheist who dispises religion. It creates nothing but war and chaos.

 

[CutieMouse]

Religion doesn't create war and/or chaos; man does.

 

[BunnyHopper]

Comparing science and religion is just odd to me. It's like comparing a poem and an algorithm. Both can be answers, but to a different question.

 

[teknight]

This thread is for people to argue and discuss there ideas towards the opposing side.

NOTE: We are not going to have harrasing, threats, or being overly jerkish and rude. I understand religion and science discussions can get pretty heated and some anger is ok, just as long as it doesn`t get too far.

I`m an atheist who dispises religion. It creates nothing but war and chaos.

Wrong. Human beings use religion (and other things) to create war and chaos. Mind you, I'm an atheist too, but I won't directly blame religion.

 

[teknight]

Comparing science and religion is just odd to me. It's like comparing a poem and an algorithm. Both can be answers, but to a different question.

How did you do your math homework?

And what question are you talking about?

 

[salvie]

first, war have nothing to do with religion, that has just been an excuse.
Yes, we have WW2, Hitler going after the jews, but hat was to have a scapegoat, he gave them the blame of germany going bad.

second, why does it have to be science or religion, I believe those can work together. It was a priest that came with the big bang theory first, just didn't get the credit for it.

Don't believe in god myself, but it fine other does. Who am I to say that god does not exist, I cant proof that he doesn't.
It's my believe that as long as people believe in a diety, there will be one, at least in their hearts which is what counts.

 

[BunnyHopper]

How did you do your math homework?

And what question are you talking about?

By calculating as was directed?

I'm not talking about one question. That's the thing. Why would you compare science and religion in the first place? Apples and pears.

 

[teknight]

By calculating as was directed?

I'm not talking about one question. That's the thing. Why would you compare science and religion in the first place? Apples and pears.

I misread your first post.
Besides, even if it's apples and oranges for you, it's still what's being done, with religion attacking science (see creationism v. evolution as one easy example.)

OK, fine: representatives of religion are trying to expand its role in the secular world, by taking on science, and trying to dictate secular policy (marriages, adoption, etc).

 

[Avellan13]

first, war have nothing to do with religion, that has just been an excuse.
Yes, we have WW2, Hitler going after the jews, but hat was to have a scapegoat, he gave them the blame of germany going bad.

second, why does it have to be science or religion, I believe those can work together. It was a priest that came with the big bang theory first, just didn't get the credit for it.

Don't believe in god myself, but it fine other does. Who am I to say that god does not exist, I cant proof that he doesn't.
It's my believe that as long as people believe in a diety, there will be one, at least in their hearts which is what counts.

Look at the Crusades and the Middle East Wars (Concerning the Al-Queida).
Also reliion never gets along with science. Look at history, Galileo was imprisoned and considered an evil person by the Church when he wasimply telling the truth. Also, during thr Middle Age and the Renissance, the Church killed or imprisioned anyone who did scientific research. The Church said that the ideal of Earth revolving around the Sun was wrong and blasphemy. Theory of Gravity, blasphemy. The list goes on. Now look at the Church, they`re using the ideals and theoies created by those scientist whom they condemned and haven`t ever said sorry for their past deeds. Hint, reason why the Illuminati was created, to make the Church pay for what they did. And yes the Illuminati are real! There not made up.

 

[BunnyHopper]

Besides, even if it's apples and oranges for you, it's still what's being done, with religion attacking science (see creationism v. evolution as one easy example.)

I'm fully aware of that, but just because it's done doesn't make it any less stupid. Why go down that path? Why even bother to start arguing about a non-issue? Rhetorical questions, both.

 

[teknight]

Look at the Crusades and the Middle East Wars (Concerning the Al-Queida).
Also reliion never gets along with science. Look at history, Galileo was imprisoned and considered an evil person by the Church when he wasimply telling the truth. Also, during thr Middle Age and the Renissance, the Church killed or imprisioned anyone who did scientific research. The Church said that the ideal of Earth revolving around the Sun was wrong and blasphemy. Theory of Gravity, blasphemy. The list goes on. Now look at the Church, they`re using the ideals and theoies created by those scientist whom they condemned and haven`t ever said sorry for their past deeds. Hint, reason why the Illuminati was created, to make the Church pay for what they did. And yes the Illuminati are real! There not made up.

Al Qaeda's agenda is secular. They want US troops out of the Arabian peninsula. Yeah, sure, they use religious rhetoric, but their motivation is quite secular.

The Iluminutty?
http://rlv.zcache.com/the_illuminutty_button-p145904706848764304t5sj_400.jpg
I know of them.

What are the Illuminati all about?

 

[teknight]

I'm fully aware of that, but just because it's done doesn't make it any less stupid. Why go down that path? Why even bother to start arguing about a non-issue? Rhetorical questions, both.

Why is secularism under attack? Why did LeBron leave Cleveland? Why is the US involved in Libya? Why can't I get a decent meal for under $1?

Any question you don't care about is rhetorical (and I don't mean you, BunnyHopper, it's the general you).

 

[CutieMouse]

Look at the Crusades and the Middle East Wars (Concerning the Al-Queida).
Also reliion never gets along with science. Look at history, Galileo was imprisoned and considered an evil person by the Church when he wasimply telling the truth. Also, during thr Middle Age and the Renissance, the Church killed or imprisioned anyone who did scientific research. The Church said that the ideal of Earth revolving around the Sun was wrong and blasphemy. Theory of Gravity, blasphemy. The list goes on. Now look at the Church, they`re using the ideals and theoies created by those scientist whom they condemned and haven`t ever said sorry for their past deeds. Hint, reason why the Illuminati was created, to make the Church pay for what they did. And yes the Illuminati are real! There not made up.

How do you explain the fact that St. Thomas Aquinas was in agreement with Aristotle re: Aristotle's analysis of "physical objects, his view of place, time and motion, his proof of the prime mover, his cosmology"? (Taken from Stanford's website on St. Thomas Aquinas) Blanket statements about how horrible and wrong and backasswards The Church has been re: science is a bit ignorant, really.

 

[teknight]

How do you explain the fact that St. Thomas Aquinas was in agreement with Aristotle re: Aristotle's analysis of "physical objects, his view of place, time and motion, his proof of the prime mover, his cosmology"? (Taken from Stanford's website on St. Thomas Aquinas) Blanket statements about how horrible and wrong and backasswards The Church has been re: science is a bit ignorant, really.

Aquinas was a copy cat? *



* I never said it was a good explanation.

 

[salvie]

Look at the Crusades and the Middle East Wars (Concerning the Al-Queida).
Also reliion never gets along with science. Look at history, Galileo was imprisoned and considered an evil person by the Church when he wasimply telling the truth. Also, during thr Middle Age and the Renissance, the Church killed or imprisioned anyone who did scientific research. The Church said that the ideal of Earth revolving around the Sun was wrong and blasphemy. Theory of Gravity, blasphemy. The list goes on. Now look at the Church, they`re using the ideals and theoies created by those scientist whom they condemned and haven`t ever said sorry for their past deeds. Hint, reason why the Illuminati was created, to make the Church pay for what they did. And yes the Illuminati are real! There not made up.

Religion was not the only factor in those.
I know the Illuminati is real, but they were lost a long time ago, good I think. Don't believe in an eye for an eye. But that wasn't because of religion, that was all about power. the Catholic Church was loosing power to this ideas and they got afraid.
I will amit that religion has been used as an excuse to get greater power or to go to war, but I haven't been the reason for it, just that, an excuse.
A person who truely believes in god, wouldn't go to war. Almost every religion says, do to others as you want them to do to you.
And there're scientist who are priests, there is a pope who supports science. just because one is real, doesn't say the other one isn't.

 

[Avellan13]

The Illuminati were created after Galileo and other scientists were being killed off or imprisoned. They were originally a group of scientist devoted to studying the nature of the universe (through astronomy). However the Church said they were commiting blasphemy and began a genocide against them.

The Illuminati went into hiding and from then, swore vengence against the Church, promising to bring down religion with science. They waited for centuries for the right time to strike. Currently they are still keeping secret, but not as uch so, now that the Church can`t just kill someone for believing in science, and also because science is and has been proving religion wrong.

The Illuminati are part of Cern, many government organizations, a other religious movements. They are still around today, they have a website. Initiations into the Illuminati are hard to get.

 

[BunnyHopper]

Why is secularism under attack? Why did LeBron leave Cleveland? Why is the US involved in Libya? Why can't I get a decent meal for under $1?

Any question you don't care about is rhetorical (and I don't mean you, BunnyHopper, it's the general you).

I have to say, I lost you there.

What I'm trying to say is that to have a sort of vague argument where the two are put against each other is just silly. It's a completely different thing to argue, for example, whether creationism should be taught in schools instead of evolution. Though even that argument would be pretty moronic, at least there's something tangible there and it is local politics, which directly affects the local people.

 

[Avellan13]

Why is secularism under attack? Why did LeBron leave Cleveland? Why is the US involved in Libya? Why can't I get a decent meal for under $1?

Any question you don't care about is rhetorical (and I don't mean you, BunnyHopper, it's the general you).

I know where you can get a descent meal for $1, go to Taco Bell or KFC.

 

[teknight]

I have to say, I lost you there.

What I'm trying to say is that to have a sort of vague argument where the two are put against each other is just silly. It's a completely different thing to argue, for example, whether creationism should be taught in schools instead of evolution. Though even that argument would be pretty moronic, at least there's something tangible there and it is local politics, which directly affects the local people.

I get what you're saying, but those are the terms being used in the public debate on the matter.
That the two aren't part of the same set of ideas* is correct, but, it still doesn't make a lick of difference. I don't wanna beat a dead horse, but creationism was spawned by religious people, whose beliefs they are pushing onto everyone. That their beliefs are unscientific, unfounded, unprovable, misguided (pYl ) is irrelevant to the matter at hand.




*used in the sense of math set theory

 

[teknight]

I know where you can get a descent meal for $1, go to Taco Bell or KFC.

I said decent!


Explanation: I'm not harping on your typo, but the quality of the food there.

 

[BunnyHopper]

I get what you're saying, but those are the terms being used in the public debate on the matter. That the two aren't part of the same set of ideas* is correct, but, it still doesn't make a lick of difference.

Yes. And I'm saying "enough is enough". I know it's pointless to say that, but I'm going to say it anyway. It's my contribution to the matter.

I don't wanna beat a dead horse,

Of course you do. That's the essence of all interweb debating

but creationism was spawned by religious people, whose beliefs they are pushing onto everyone. That their beliefs are unscientific, unfounded, unprovable, misguided (pYl ) is irrelevant to the matter at hand.

*used in the sense of math set theory

Yeah, and I think that they have lost the plot. To be a bit more serious for a moment, I've always hated organised religions, because I think that they bastardise personal faith. I have absolutely nothing against people having beliefs in things that they can not prove. I think it is normal and natural and it's a good thing to sometimes just trust your own gut instead of all the facts. But people have just been blinded by the power and the politics and it's become an issue that should not even exist. That is why I'm protesting the whole argument in the first place. By wasting time on it, we are missing out on a lot of things that we could gain by just taking the two as completely separate sets of ideas.

 

[teknight]

Yes. And I'm saying "enough is enough". I know it's pointless to say that, but I'm going to say it anyway. It's my contribution to the matter.



Of course you do. That's the essence of all interweb debating

>>>>OK, it's my fetish. And this is the wrong thread for that.

Yeah, and I think that they have lost the plot. To be a bit more serious for a moment, I've always hated organised religions, because I think that they bastardise personal faith. I have absolutely nothing against people having beliefs in things that they can not prove. I think it is normal and natural and it's a good thing to sometimes just trust your own gut instead of all the facts. But people have just been blinded by the power and the politics and it's become an issue that should not even exist. That is why I'm protesting the whole argument in the first place. By wasting time on it, we are missing out on a lot of things that we could gain by just taking the two as completely separate sets of ideas.

I hear you, and I agree. Of course, we're hearing from the non theists/ lesser theists here. I'm sure there are those that will say that we shouldn't render anything unto Caesar... but will they post in this thread?

 

[Chiara_searches]

Religion doesn't create war and/or chaos; man does.

Comparing science and religion is just odd to me. It's like comparing a poem and an algorithm. Both can be answers, but to a different question.

[snip] Human beings use religion (and other things) to create war and chaos. [/snip]

I can't say it any better, so I won't try.

 

[satindesire]

Evil people use any excuse to do evil things. I don't think that's a reason to hate things like religion...religion didn't ask to become the misguided "reason" mad people do crazy shit.

Jody Foster was also used as a reason to do evil shit but I don't see anyone saying "Jody Foster is evil and has created chaos and death."

 

[teknight]

Evil people use any excuse to do evil things. I don't think that's a reason to hate things like religion...religion didn't ask to become the misguided "reason" mad people do crazy shit.

Jody Foster was also used as a reason to do evil shit but I don't see anyone saying "Jody Foster is evil and has created chaos and death."

But, on the flipside, it's a complicated bit of operating system, this religion business. It is confusing, doesn't have a standard, unified message (unless you're looking to pull one from it) and, as such, is easy to hijack for nefarious purposes.